BJP slips in note to woo Muslims

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Vyom, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. Vyom

    Vyom Seeker Elite Member

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    The BJP is anti-Muslim — Myth or reality? This is theme of an Urdu pamphlet slipped under the doors of Muslim homes in Uttar Pradesh that has become a talking point in the community.

    Emboldened by appeals of some Muslim groups asking the community to cast a positive ballot, the BJP sees a glimmer of hope to lure Muslim votes into its fold.

    Senior party leader Kalraj Mishra hopes to increase party vote bank amongst Muslims to 6 per cent from 2% in the upcoming polls.

    BJP insiders say that in the absence of a Hindu consolidation, the party needs at least 9 per cent Muslim votes to return to power in UP. Muslims can tilt election results in some 130 of 403 assembly constituencies.

    The pamphlet asks Muslims to recognise that those who claim to be the saviours are their real exploiters. “Don’t believe us. Read Justice Sachar committee report on the Muslims’ wretched conditions and its recommendations that are gathering dust for past five years,” it reads.

    Though its attack is focused on the Congress for topping the list of exploiters, the Muslims have started approaching Maulvis who should know better if anything worthwhile is done by other parties like the SP and the BSP to remove their misfortunes.

    The pamphlet further says: “Judge us by our track record. See what the BJP governments in states have done for Muslims, including Gujarat of Narendra Modi where they top in the country in terms of the per capita income...”

    It then goes on to rubbish the charge of discrimination against Muslims by the BJP.

    Pointing out that the BJP treats all pilgrimages to holy places equally, the pamphlet asserts how during the BJP-led NDA rule that Muslim pilgrims were provided accommodation near the holy Kaaba in Mecca without any extra charge, the historic Haj Act was enacted.

    BJP slips in note to woo Muslims - India - DNA
     
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  3. SHURIDH

    SHURIDH Senior Member Senior Member

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    thats surprising.bjp rejects sachar report now they use it.i don't think bjp will ever get 9%muslim vote .i think this time they won't get 1%muslim vote also.
     
  4. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    While its a myth that no Muslim will not vote for BJP, but its also true that their performance will be watched very closely.

    In Karnataka BJP had been wooing Muslim vote for around 10 years at least and the result was fed-up with all other parties, approx. 25% vote share among Muslims went to BJP which resulted in its first govt. in the south.

    '25 pc of Muslims voted BJP in Karnataka'



    The other myth is that Muslims go to Maulvis to ask who to vote. This is something that hardly has impact on voter preferences and very few actually jump on a political bandwagon saying who people should vote for. While those who do are dismissed as bikao maulvis
     
  5. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    What a Muslim face of BJP will say ?. He is bound to say that Muslims are voting and will vote more in future. Unfortunately, Still Muslims consider BJP as Anti-Muslim party which is not true.

    Wherever Muslims are 20%-30% (like West UP, North-East Bihar) - Most of the Other parties gives ticket to Muslims and BJP gives ticket to Hindus dominated caste in that constituency (mostly from RSS cadre). Hence, Muslim votes goes to Congress/regional parties and most of the Hindu votes to BJP.

    If Muslim will vote to BJP, It might change few of their stands and not vice-verse. Other parties have filled enough fear among Muslims against BJP. Sad but true. BJP is not Anti-Muslims which every other party says.
     
  6. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    It sounds like an attempt to create a myth when it is to said that a certain party(especially a party like BJP) formed Govt in a state because muslims voted for it suggesting that no party(even BJP) can come to power without muslim support.

    Secondly, if the maulvis and mullahs dont play any role, then why would the political parties try to hobnob with them? Are the political parties fools who dont know their target audience?
     
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  7. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    IMHO, BJP will not try to attract Muslim votes.

    I don't know right or wrong but BJP social engineering, political set-up is based on Indian religion only nor Nagpur HQ will allow. Sometime, They do ask for Muslim votes but it's more to do for the sake of stopping polarization against opponent.

    and Muslims do vote on direction of Mullahs, Mosques and Muslim brotherhood. I am not talking of 10% urban and educated Muslim population but 90% other semi-urban and rural.
     
  8. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    @Galaxy and @Johnee
    That is based on the results AFTER the elections. And if you check opinion polls around 2008 you will find similar results. Sure the majority Muslim vote did not go with BJP, but a 1/4 to a 1/3 in other places did and that is still a big chunk. My mother's side is from Bangalore and I can say that 20-25% vote from among the Muslims even if it was with the attitude to at least try BJP is not a myth but a strong possibility. Still this is a minority of the Muslim vote as whole.

    What I find interesting is while I am trying to bust a myth that would be welcomed by people who don't know how muslim dynamics work; I feel that somehow, you actually DO NOT want Muslims to vote for BJP and build on a myth that only Hindus vote for BJP which I thought would be a negative. In short, my post was supportive of BJP here if you didn't get the implication.

    Unless both of you believe that the BJP should continue to define itself as an anti-Muslim and /or anti-Christian party. Although that may be your wish, the BJP leadership clearly doesn't see it that way. But ofcourse, you shouldn't complain is Muslims or Christians don't vote for an anti-minority party if that is your thinking.

    And why do parties hob-nob with Maulvis, because the don't know better ofcourse. The BJP hobnobs with the RSS but does that mean RSS can deliver all Hindu vote to BJP? Ofcourse not, it never had and never will. Political parties want to try the easy way out and just because they think that hobnobbing with maulvis will give them vote banks doesn't mean they actually will.
    And just like the BJP will continue to loose elections if it believes only the RSS can deliver all Hindu vote to it, so will any party that believes Maulvis can deliver Muslim vote. Believe this myth at your own peril


    Ofcourse, I don't know about the next elections if this will be repeated given the BJP rule since 2008 given the Yeddy backlash.

    Bottom line is if BJP is not just pandering for votes and genuinely wants to treat Indians Muslims as an integral and essential part of the Indian civilization and work for its upliftment as any other Indian, there is no reason not to expect them not to vote for BJP. But please don't turn into any other political party and start doing election stunts and pandering to maulvis which would the easy way out instead of genuine upliftment work.

    At the very least, it is good to know that BJP has moved from its strident anti-Muslim platform of the 90s and is mainstreaming its ideological though with Indian society.

    Narendra Modi's fast: BJP woos muslims - Economic Times
    BJP extends its support to Ulema Council, wants alliance with cleric based party | TwoCircles.net
    orkut - BJP supports muslim on batla house encounter
    Bharatpur to Batla, BJP reaches out to Muslims - Indian Express
    BJP woos Muslim as Rajasthan, LS polls near
     
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  9. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    @ejajr

    I can give 100 links which will tell other side of story.

    You didn't understood the logic behind it.

    BJP do ask for Muslim like all other parties to make it secular and to stop polarization for one party.

    For example, In West U.P., Muslim population is around 26%. All political parties BSP, SP, LD, Congress gave around 20%-30% seats to Muslims but BJP gave 0 tickets. Now, If BJP ask for Muslim votes, The reason behind it to make Muslim vote neutral. If Muslims will be strongly consolidate against BJP there, Then Bulk of their votes will go in favor of 1 candidates which can defeat BJP which BJP doesn't want in some parts of the country.

    Most of the Anti-Modi camp says "Modi is Anti-Muslims". So he is trying to make himself neutral. But that doesn't mean Muslims are voting to BJP, it's just BJP making a secular effort to reach every political parties in order to get support.

    As i said, BJP will never try to gain Muslim votes. If tomorrow, Muslim votes to BJP, then it can work but not other way out.

    Even in Lucknow, Most of the Shia Muslims use to vote BJP but that is more to do with ABV and other parties giving to Sunni's candidates.

    BJP political-set up is not based on Muslims votes as of now. Things can change in future, But that is certainly not the case today.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  10. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    ^^^ Is shahnawaz hussain Shia?
     
  11. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    If Muslims want to vote BJP, Then it's very good move.

    But BJP can't risk in asking for Muslim votes, because once they will do. They will lose support of big chunk who support only because of their ideology and even Muslims votes are not guarantee.

    Most of the states where Muslims are 18% and more like U.P., Bihar, W.B., Assam. They don't vote to BJP. Indeed, Majority of them hate BJP.

    States where Muslims are only 10% (+/-2%) and 5% (+/1%). BJP can't risk of huge % of voters who vote BJP for some ideological reason.
     
  12. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    He is Sunni.

    Even he didn't got Muslim votes from Bhagalpur.
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I don't think so.
     
  14. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    I tend to take opinion polls with a load of salt. Anyway, my point was not that muslims dont vote for BJP. I raised a doubt over a statement of yours that sounded like an assertion that muslim support played a key role in BJP forming Govt in Karnataka. I am quoting you:

    So, the 25% vote share of muslims resulted in first BJP Govt in south. Does that mean that without this muslim support, BJP would not have formed the Govt?

    I am not against your myth-busting attempt, only that I dont believe its a myth. That is the point. I think you are creating a myth that mullahs play no role and that muslims are just like other vote banks. So, I articulated my doubts over your theory.

    Truth is truth, convenient or otherwise. Whether it supports BJP or opposes it is irrelevant.

    Anyway, I am not against muslims voting for BJP. I am against BJP endorsing the same brand of 'secular' politics as others. If support of muslims is being promised based on that pre-condition, then I am against such change of stance from BJP.

    It sounds to me that muslim support is being promised and it is being expected that BJP starts toeing the line as other 'secular' parties. I am against this. Of course, you are free to try.

    If BJP does go that way, then I think it will lose its niche voters.

    When did BJP 'define itself as anti-muslim or anti-christian'? And if it did, when did it re-define itself?

    Anyway, I am not privy to the thinking of BJP leadership, so I am not confident as to what BJP leadership sees or does not see.

    I think you misunderstood Hindutva as anti-muslim or anti-christianity. If you view Hindutva as anti-muslim, then what changed? Did BJP ditch hindutva?

    Maybe those reaching such naive(or convenient) conclusions don't know better! Political parties plan their strategies quite carefully and target their votebanks tactically. And political parties, in India, have been appeasing the maulvis and mullahs from the time of independence. Unless, they saw some direct/ in-direct gain, they wouldnt be doing so for such a longtime.

    To say that BJP hobnobs with RSS is like saying Kangrez hobnobs with the Gs. BJP is the political wing of RSS. RSS is a cultural party espousing Hindutva(which according to them pertains to indian civilization), that may mean anti-musim or anti-christian to some people.

    You are assuming political parties and politicians to be fools. Political parties and politicians pull all stops to gain power.

    So, you think BJP associates with RSS in the hope that they will deliver Hindu votes?!! Wow!

    Anyway, how did you reach the conclusion that RSS= hindu version of mullahs or maulvis?

    The hindu counterparts of mullahs or maulvis are Sadhus, Sants, Shankaracharyas, and temple priests.

    And, how did you know that BJP believes RSS will deliver Hindu votes? And, how do you know that RSS does not deliver hindu votes?

    Anyway, do you feel that unless BJP does not stop associating with RSS, BJP will not gain the votes of muslims?

    Great.

    Boss, BJP has always been saying that they consider muslims as part of Indian civilization. Of course, they have articulated some expectations(pre-conditions) of muslims. However, muslims have viewed this ideology(hindutva) as anti-muslim party. Perhaps, because BJP was prominent in Ram-Janma-Bhoomi issue.

    But, if BJP had not taken interest in that issue, then BJP would have been relegated into the dustbin of the history. BJP became a national party because it took up that issue.

    See, you think BJP was anti-muslim in 90s because they took up hindu causes. And perhaps, now you are hoping that the trend has changed.

    But, the truth is that BJP was not necessarily anti-muslim, it was simply pro-hindu. If BJP gives up its pro-hindu-ness then it will lose its vote bank in lieu of potential support of minority of muslim votes. Bad bargain, I say!

    Of course, some muslims may have finally seen through the 'secular' propaganda of branding BJP as anti-muslim party. That may explain some muslims voting for BJP. Yet, the numbers are not enough. Most muslims(specially in semi-urban, rural and urban ghettos) still perceive BJP as anti-muslim party for holding a pro-hindu stand.
     
  15. SHURIDH

    SHURIDH Senior Member Senior Member

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    @galaxy we may have different views about many things.but i agree with you in that muslim did not vote for bjp in general.after 2009 election it is published in the hindu newspaper only 3%muslim vote for bjp compare to 6% muslim vote for bjp in 2004.unless bjp gets at least 15%muslim vote.we can't say bjp has a support base among muslim.2-3%muslim vote proves that bjp does not have support base among muslims.i don't know about south but in up,bhiar,west bengal,assam muslims don't like bjp.bjp does it to prevent polaraisation for muslim vote.but i think muslim vote will polarised strongly against bjp this time.they know it.try to damage control.
    On the other hand i want to say
    In bjp's hinduvta there has no place for a indian muslim or a indian chirstan.they are not part of the hinduvta's ideal hindu socitey.
     
  16. SHURIDH

    SHURIDH Senior Member Senior Member

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    in bhagalpur muslim are only 15%.but he once elected from kishanganj.which has large muslim propotion.may be he gets few muslim vote but they are still low in number
     
  17. SHURIDH

    SHURIDH Senior Member Senior Member

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    no he is sunni.but bjp has also a prominent shia muslim leader named mukter abbas naqvi.
     
  18. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    offtopic
    Sir u live in australia (according to your flag ) but still u are able to post most about india specially jammu and kashmir and indian muslims , their policies etc . how do u post various links(new/as well as past) .how u keep track of all this
     
  19. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    @Johnee and Galaxy

    The fundamental factor for Muslim voter preference (and that applies to all actually) is security. I have repeated this at various times. The Babri Masjid demolition in itself although a big event was not as bad as the riots that followed. There was not only riots were Muslims were targeted but even the police played a very biased role were instead of protecting the people they collaborated and targeted Muslim communities. This was even more pronounced in Mumbai where the Sri Krishan report made a scathing remark on the performance of the Mumbai police doing the riots as well. It was only when the Indian Army was called in and discharged their duties professionally that peace was restored. That is why even today, Muslim communities have more confidence in the Indian army in maintaining peace impartially than the local police.

    Now the point to ponder is that does BJP and its activities enhace or reduce the security of life and property of Muslims or Christians and other minorities for that matter. In the 90s, if you are honest, you will agree that their politics reduced their security. The politics was not based on economics or development but identity. The initial BJP strategy was to consolidate the Hindu vote by creating a bogey monster of Muslim or Christian takeover of India. But now that this has not worked except in some points in time, a better strategy has evolved. A quick review of speeches by Advani, Uma Bharti and others during that time will show why minority groups would have felt uncomfotable to say the least voting for BJP.

    So certainly being pro-Hindu does not have to be anti-Muslim. But this is what the BJP followed in the 90s too. And if the voter patterns are changing, it is because the BJP has realised that being pro-Hindu does not have to be anti-Muslim as well. And I agree that this doesn't mean everyone in BJP thinks like that. As late as 2007, the BJP tried the same old trick of creating Muslim Bogey monsters in UP assembly elections which the EC conficated and pulled them up on. (The Hindu : National : What the BJP's election campaign CD `Bharat ki Pukar' presents � excerpts from the transcript). You had a similar situation in 2009 with Varun Gandhi trying to consildate Hindu votes by taking an anti-Muslim and anti-Sikh line. And do keep this in mind that Varun Gandhi is the same person who use to put a skull cap on and sit in Iftar parties before he joined in the BJP.

    What we must realise is that identity politics will always be won and lost to the detriment of the larger society. What we want our politicians to do is run an issue based political campaign. Issues like their economic policy, social welfare policy, foreign politcy e.t.c. If we start getting political leaders that talk about my party will take care of Muslims or my party will take care of OBCs or only my party will take care of Hindus, we fall in the identity politics trap and the result is the loss of the larger society.

    We still have a long way to go ofcourse, but I can say in the last 20 years, there is a sea change in the political atmosphere and the competitive identity politics.

    I moved to Australia only in 2008 and I visit India every year approximately. Before that I was living in India and was involved in COVA through high school and uni years so you can say I had an early exposure to the political side of things from the grass roots level. Also, I am doing a part time Masters in International Security Studies and a lot of info I have is because of papers/projects I have done as part of my studies so I have an unfair advantage in that sense. Also one of the reasons why I spend more time on Foreign Policy threads than others. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2012
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  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi is Shia.

    One just not know if the BJP will get the Muslim vote, but it appears that the SP is more popular with the Muslims than the Congress.

    This is what Telegraph, which is a Congress mouthpiece, had to say.

     
  21. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    In UP, it is very hard for Congress to gain Muslim vote share. If you discuss this with them, you will hear all kinds of conspiracy theories of how Congress and BJP are two sides of the same coin and both are hand in glove with each other with just making a national show of being opposed to each other. But I can leave that for another thread.

    While BJP may not get the majority of Muslim vote for sure, one thing is for sure is that the Muslim vote is a very floating vote and at the same time will see a split between SP/BSP mainly and at a smaller extent the Congress/BJP/Smaller parties
     

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