BJP or Congress? Who would you support ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by ashdoc, Aug 20, 2010.

?

Who would you prefer at the center ?

  1. Congress/UPA

    6.1%
  2. BJP/NDA

    89.8%
  3. Others

    4.1%
  1. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    My own prescription as what it should do to win

    For one thing , it should stop harping about the islamic peril....... the hindus have come over to the conclusion that hindu-muslim problems will in fact affect their day to day existence and their money earning by affecting the economy.

    Second ,they should try to retain the upper caste and class vote by not attacking women in pubs , or valentine's day couples or be seen to be opposing modernity and women's freedom .........as most of these people are upper caste and class ,and these actions only affect its core base .

    It will also have to expand in the south and shed its image of being a north indian party.......except karnataka ,it has no presence in the south ..........it should start with andhra pradesh ,telgus have always felt comfortable with north indians like kannadigas do ,and unlike tamils and up to some extent malyalis.
    For this it will have to stop chanting ram ram as ram is seen more as a north indian god ,and any party using his name as a north indian party by others.

    Now the chance is lost ,but when it was in power ,it should have had a more aggressive foreign policy befitting its image........it could have spent more on the military ,but instead it allowed the military to lose its edge over its adversaries upto some extent......there was no increase in budget for military.

    What more can people supporting BJP do other than continue supporting it??......nothing......people obviously do not have time from their jobs and other things to do more.......of course ,they can encourage those potential BJP supporters who do not vote on election day to come out to vote and not go for vacations .
     
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  3. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    This , I got in email from a friend.........not to be taken seriously ,but funny !!:happy_2::happy_2:

    The reasons why the BJP does not come to power.

    1> The majority of the Indian population is genetically inferior. There is too much inbreeding at the village level. This means that the basic IQ required for any intellectual prowess is very very low.

    2> The Indians are by and large lazy and extremely selfish.

    3> The village dwelling Indians world exists around their bottle and women, if anyone can satisfy their thirst for both he gets their temporary loyalty.

    4> Caste is a matter of general knowledge for most Indians, it is a matter of great pride to belong and to vote for people of one's own caste. There is little else for most Indians to feel proud about. Most villagers probably do not even know how the national flag looks like and what the concept of nation means.

    5> Hinduism unfortunately does not have one god a god that can be a unifier, every caste has it's own god. Basically there are too many. Many more are out of, or are on on the assembly line..eg : Shirdi Sai Baba, Satya Sai Baba, Asaram Bapu etc etc. Therefore god cannot unify people eg: Shri Ram can unify some Bhaiyyas but not all so called Indians.

    6> The so called Pagan's (Hindus if you will ) are used to living under foreign rule, therefore an Italian calling the shots in India only amuses them if at all anything else. Their generations are used to seeing their temples desecrated, women raped and friends and relatives massacred, they have developed an uncanny ability to watch all this with a careless expression on their face, digging their ugly noses perched up on a char pai. Therefore 26/11 etc has only entertainment value for them. In fact most of them thanked the terrorists from Pakistan for sparing them.

    7> Most of the South Indians do not know what is Hindutva, for eg : the Razakars may have raped and killed in the name of religion. But the Telgus of AP still proudly call them their brothers! Their can be parties such as MQM etc for whom even local Telgus go all out with zest to vote for them.

    Now back to your point. Why Kangress can defeat the BJP.

    1> Kangress knows that the Pagan's (Hindus if you will) don't deserve to be counted.

    2> Kangress knows the Hindu fetish for women and wine. With the money that they have ammassed by the loot of the last 6 decades they can buy lots of women and wine for the voters.

    3> Kangress understood the importance of the Muslims for electoral success long before anything else, Muslims form a formidable vote bank. They have mastered the art of tactful voting en mass. Flogging the Pagans (Hindus if you will) gives the Muslims saddistic pleasure. The more you flog them happier they get. You need not worry about the economic or academic upliftment of Muslims, since they themselves love to live in the stone age. What matters is how stridently the Kangress talks against Hindus. Kangress obliges the Muslims in this regard amply. As mentioned before, the Pagans (Hindus if you will) are used to getting mauled from many centuries so they remain indifferent while digging their ugly noses.

    4> The untouchables are genetically the most inferior, I think there was a scientific reason why they were treated like the way were in the past.Having said that, all that they need is a constant supply of caste based rhetoric (listening and obeying these viciously casteist lecturers is considered as a hallmark of a Dalit intellectual). The more someone blame's Brahmins for their economic state instead of their own laziness, the more fired up they get. Kangress does that with a skill that they have generated over the years. Brahmis dont matter anyways, they are far too few to find to be of any electoral consequence anyways. BJP has many Brahmin leaders.

    This is what I have analysed over the years!

    What should BJP do to come to power?
    As of now nothing. It can at best try to come back to it's 190 MP status by sticking to staunch Hindutva.
    :emot15::emot15:
     
  4. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    I like BJP tad more than Congress ... I remember whenever i asked the drivers of my taxi or any others i would get a reply that BJP was lot better for the community, These people even told with BJP ethnic and religious based violence between Hindu's and Muslims was a lot less under BJP but then it all comes back under Congress. Their Dynastic politics kinda makes me sick..

    Edit: Further more i have noticed the media is sucking upto Rahul Gandhi and Congress am not sure why...i have been noticing this for a long time
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    The BJP has to drop its divisive policies. If it does that there will be no difference between it and the congress. then it will be a fight between similar parties.

    Recent states elections have proved that now people vote for parties that are pro development and nothing else. MP,Gujarat, Delhi voted back their govts. Take West bengal as an example. People now are done with the commies who have given them nothing but sorrow and people are all set to throw them out.
     
  6. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    AM not sure...i feel BJP is just highlighted about these issues(am no BJP supporter) a lot more than congress
     
  7. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    work on two point plank, and forget everything else:

    1 development and economy. and through this deliver on
    2 rozi, khana, makan, sehat, aur shaksharta. (employment, food, house, health, and education) and make these universal.

    fact of the matter is, modi even with his gujarat riot past is looked upto for a simple reason because he gives one of the best administration in the country which is lighting fast as per indian standards, a largely corruption less environment, and one that is development oriented. people blame the gujarat voter to be polarized but the fact is the gujju community which produces one the best business community of our country are more smart than any, and they make a bright choice of who will create a better future for them.

    beyond this leave masjid, mandir for people to sort out. deliver at the state level, and the center wont be far behind.
     
  8. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    First the BJP is filled with people who are so old that the thinking becomes earlier generation thinking. BJP needs youth to seed in a new generation of politicians.

    Whenever BJP is in power, moral policing rises from various Hindu groups like Bajrang Dal and Sri Ram Sene. The BJP govt fails to take action against this.

    BJP in its election agenda never forgets to mention Ram Mandir. They must come in terms to reality that not only Muslims but Hindu's to are really unhappy with Ram Mandir issue.

    In the last centre election many of BJP candidates did not have a agenda for their city and even did not strive much to reach the masses.

    Most of all if they continue with Hindutva preaching in a country which is a multi religious country where everyone considers themselves Indian, well you will continue loosing and probably deserve it too.
     
  9. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    As Indians get more literate and aware of their socio-economic rights, parties that provide sound socio-economic principles of development will prosper.

    The BJP is an amalgam of conservative economists from the Swatantrata party days as well as the leftists(in economic terms) from the RSS school of thought who talk about swadeshi prodcuts e.t.c. This is a dhicotomy that BJP continues to suffers from but usually just chooses one over the other. This is where the criticism of Shining India came and where rural vote was lost. It will have to define itself between policies to help corporate India as well as Rural Bharat and how both are taken along. It doesnt mean that BJP should give up market policies and follow the populist track of subsidising food grains e.t.c. but coming up with innovative way to empower the weaker sections of the society.

    The other social policy is of inclusive ideals. India can not survive without emphasising unity in diversity. Not just on religion, but region, ethnicity, langauge and caste. Each community has to be provided the space to feel welcomed and appreciated. There is no melting pot in India as Shashi Tharoor says. Each maintains their individual identity and allowing this is where the importance of the idea of India comes into play. The pratical implementation is on emphasising and stregthening communal harmony, strict control over outbreakof riots, prevention of HR violations around caste, creed or religion.

    Corruption is a single point factor that could possibly on its own allow a party to win. Unfortunately, the track record is very hard to build and once lost is almost impossible to regain. The CWC are an example. Similarly we have the mining scams in Karnataka. Corruption should always be a high priority and strict actions against Corrupt party members and accountability of schemes even if they are Congress created like NREGA would be an important factor.
     
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  10. samarsingh

    samarsingh Regular Member

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    weren't the swatantra party guys liberals. the problem with swatantra part was that in the public mind it was only associated with erstwhile maharajahs and princes. I think they would have been a better alternative to both Congress and BJP in that they were talking about economic issues and politicies in 60's(which PVNR and MMS initiated in 90's), but then our mindset in those days was very "socialist".
    coming back to the BJP and Congress. Congress has socialists which maoists would be proud of. It would continue to implement populist policies to stay in power. the problem is voters in India do not vote on economic ideologies alone, hence BJP would continue with its "religious right wing appeal", unfortunately thats its USP. IMHO we need a third "truly" national party which would be free from Congress's baggage and BJP's divisive politics
     
  11. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    ^^^Well I would gladly welcome the revival of the Swatantrata Party. Particularly nowadays, where capitalist economy is not considered evil they do have a good chance provided strong governance and crackdown on corruption is part of the manifesto.

    For the poor, a social entrepreneruship based on capitalist principles is the best solution for stable longterm growth. In otherwise, the "Swatantrata Party" will support Social business and invest in that instead of populist policies to help the poor. Because it will cutdown on the PDSwhich is responsible for most of the corruption in our country, this will have a more drastic affect on poverty alleviation.

    For more info on what social business means check 'Social business' harnesses corporate brains to help poor
     
  12. samarsingh

    samarsingh Regular Member

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    unfortunately there would be no such revival any time soon. At the height of Emergency Indira Gandhi added the word socialist to the preamble. later on in 1989 the representation of people act was amended(42nd amendment) and now any party seeking to register with the election commision has to affirm not just to constitution but also to socialism. Mumbai high court has been sitting on a petition filed by Swatantra Party, Maharashtra for 15 years concerning this.
    In 2007, Sanjiv Agarwal, the head of the Good Governance India Foundation in Calcutta filed a public-interest petition to the Supreme Court questioning the validity of the 42nd Amendment and the relevant section of the Representation of People Act. The petition argued both provisions violated the basic premise of democracy and political freedom enshrined in the Constitution.the Supreme court implied that as of now the issue is "academic" and the court would prefer to deal with it when a political party is refused registration because of its refusal to affirm to socialist beliefs. But all parties have sworn to "socialism" without defining what it means. the system is encouraging parties to lie. I mean comeon, there is nothing socialist about BJP and MNS....
     
  13. White Clouds

    White Clouds Regular Member

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    Tbh I find BJP party backward in mentality (women's issue, valentines etc), intolerant and has outdated absurd middle age policies. It plays divisive politics which is bad for the country overall. Eventhough I am Hindu and know BJP is Hindutiva party it does not work for the country as a whole instead tries to divide people. When BJP was in rule there was hardly any development structurally, economically etc. I want a party which works for the country overall socially, economically and has a progressive attitude and BJP lacks on all of them. Congress is far better than the BJP party in all these issues albeit not perfect.
    Given an option to choose from BJP and Congress, I would choose Congress everytime.
     
  14. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Its more Congress wins because of coalitions with all the cvnts possible.
     
  15. Agantrope

    Agantrope Senior Member Senior Member

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    I would like to share some things that happened before the election

    CEC Rangaswamy recommended the President of India to not appoint the Navin Chawla as next CEC, but unfortunately president she himself a puppet of Madam.
    Congress played good divide and rule method in many states such that it ensured the BJP votes got split instead, to increase its vote. eg MNC in Maharasthra, DMDK in TN, PR in AP
     
  16. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Many people say that BJP is having divisive policy and forget to mention about congress. Its congress which is hell bent on dividing entire country for vote bank policy. They are ready to accommodate TMC despite knowing their links with Maoists. They donot oppose religious conversions by Christians In Tribal areas as all those converted ones are so called votebank of Congress. CBI is a puppet in hands of government to gain political advantage over Rivals. Tapping of phones of opposition leaders is also another issue . Politics of Dynasty is another main Reason Why I don't like Congress. 2-3 days back I saw an Article about rising Popularity of Rahul Gandhi and that he is next Prime ministerial candidate. Does he deserve the prime minister post . only good thing he has done is being born in Gandhi family and thats his only qualification.
    now when it comes to BJP rule in center and in states. Barring Gujarat how many burning Issues we had. Gujrat was really unfortunate and shouldnot have happend. Economy was in much better shape and India was really Shinning at least in urban areas. They had a collective vision for the country and many projects like rural electrification, linkage of Rivers , golden quadrilateral and reducing GOVT stakes in PSU were all good steps.
    There were few mistakes by BJP end as well.First of all they forgot that India lives in its Villages and did very badly in Rural areas . Party is not very good in promoting youngsters on National stage.Thirdly they are not able to come up with a leader of Bajpayee caliber who is acceptable to everyone. Some one having a doubt about BJP ability should look at all states where BJP is having government . This yesr top two performing states were ruled by BJP and almost all states are doing better .
    Moreover Congress will loose coming election on account of its own misdeeds rather than a resurging BJP.
     
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  17. devgupt

    devgupt Regular Member

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    Actually BJP is doing well in villages and tribal areas.
    It's in the cities they are getting pounded.It doesn't have any MP from any of the 4 metros.
    The reason BJP is surviving today is because of its Chief Ministers - the good work done by them.
    So the point mentioned by the other members that BJP should concentrate on roti kapda aur makan is already being given attention.

    Problem for the BJP is that it comes with a baggage and which looks out of fashion in today's times.Guys like Varun Gandhi who are clueless themselves make BJP look even more clueless.And which makes them an easy punching bag for media.

    Rahul Gandhi represents hope like his father Rajiv did when he came to politics and thats why he is a favorite.However the honeymoon wont last long. Omar Abdullah was Rahul personal choice.Interestingly Rahul has not uttered one word over Kashmir.Not even fancy words of talking to Kashmiris and other such blah blah. It seems he is as clueless as the whole GOI is.
    He once defended the son of President Pratibha Patil who was facing corruption charges(while he was campaigning for him in Assemby elections), saying that he is a youth leader.
    Being more style than substance, chances are that might end up as Gorbachev.

    BJP must prepare someone to take up his place.

    In 2009 elections from BJP the focus was on Advani only. From Congress the focus was on trinity of Manmohan-Sonia-Rahul. And the focus of Congress remains the same.
    What BJP needs to do now is to embed its own trinity in people's conciousness-Sushma Swaraj should be more seen in spotlight so that she is seen as someone equivalent to Sonia Gandhi, Advani is already there to take on PM in parliament, and thus they need a young leader to take on Rahul Gandhi.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  18. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    ** Disclaimer: I have no voting rights in India, I have never been eligible to participate in its democratic process nor will I ever be. So everything I say is purely from an outsiders perspective.

    The ideological basis of the BJP from its very inception is flawed. No matter how un- evolved a democracy is, eventually parties emanating either from the far left or the far right fail to survive in their original forms. The valentines day violence, the beating of young women in clubs etc. are merely a symptom of the greater disease. At the end of the day the BJP is the political wing of the Sangh Parivar an organization that has a strong inclination toward radicalism and fascism mostly because of its inherent insecurities. By default the party has to pander to all this right wing nonsense.

    Their ascent to power and the fuel running their political engine are both running out. The BJP feeds on the frustrations of the upper caste Hindus who are inconvenienced by poverty and the rage of the slightly lower placed Hindus, all of which can be diverted toward Muslims in the time of need. I don't think they do to well with the lower castes. Unfortunately the BJP has no real solutions to alleviate any of the anger and frustration. Apparently even pogroms don't do the job. Also their claim to fame came on the backs of the blood bath of the Babri Masjid and its aftermath. This no longer has a positive connotation in today's India and will soon lose its relevance. They try their best to keep this alive by constantly referring to the Ram Mandir unicorn. But it seems to be losing its relevance in national politics.

    Having said that it is clear that the political principles of both the BJP and Congress are founded on dichotomy, which is the second problem for both parties. This is best reflected in its economic policy. Ejazr has rightly pointed out the India Shining/Swadeshi contradiction. Mind you the congress is no different, perhaps even worse given that the disastrous economic policies of the past were entirely their doing. Either way both parties keep on contradicting themselves in ridiculous ways and the one who does it best wins. This however is a structural problem of Indian politics primarily as a result of rampant illiteracy. It also ensures that divisive tactics and caste politics remain the primary medium of elections.

    The corruption factor is pretty much a constant, and can't be curbed by politicians even if they wanted to. It's deeply entrenched in the perennial bureaucratic system and is merely operated along side the affairs of the state on a day to day basis. I'm not sure if people can even differentiate between the two anymore. The congress should be thanked for this, because they were the ones to institutionalize it. The only real way to break its back is to reform the government, the BJP however has shown absolutely no indication of doing any such thing.

    Ideally it would be great if a party were to rise and challenge congress on economic principles, however this is unlikely given that literacy rates are not going to jump up any time soon.
     
  19. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    people like vinod mehta of outlook are literally chamchas of congress....so is tarun tejpal of tehelka......so is Times of india
     
  20. devgupt

    devgupt Regular Member

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    Much has been written about the ideological negatives of BJP.Well there is always a right leaning party in every democracy and in India its them.The ideology of BJP is an alternate vision of India which gets its sustenance from the holes in the model of Nehruvian secularism followed today

    BJP is associated with riots but it must be pointed out riots have been going on in India for a long time.And BJP is not the sole party behind them.
    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ncp-leader-arrested-for-miraj-riots/633444/0

    This incident on eve of Maharashta assembly elections was clearly aimed to polarise voters.
    and it wasnt the BJP which did this
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  21. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    Rightward leaning is one thing and then emanating from a putrid mess like the RSS is quite another. This is not to say political parties don't reform themselves, they do, the BJP just hasn't managed to do anything substantial. I find their opposition to the "pesudo-secular" menace quite hollow, mostly because it is rather obvious that what they really desire is to establish Hindu superiority. Their message is muddled in the insecurity of small minded Hindus who are unable to do anything genuinely productive.

    The congress is a rather pathetic and their governmental mechanism is just as bad today as it was 4 decades ago. If an opposing party wanted to rise up and challenge the congress, they very well could have. Legislature, economic policy, governmental reform etc. etc. are all great points where the congress can and should be beaten. Unfortunately idiotic medieval era squabbles, caste politics and misplaced saffron nationalism seem to be a higher priority. Lastly, the BJP indulges in and exploits the very loopholes which they find abhorrent. At least Nehru was genuine in his cause. The change they supposedly promise is a mirage, a trick they picked up from the congress party
     

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