'BJP has sought to mislead country on Article 370'

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Ray, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    What do you make out from this interview?

    Has he mellowed since the General Election?

    Is he uncomfortable because of the Modi Juggernaut and yet, he is being a shrewd politician to keep his options open/

    Why should Kashmiri Pandits have to buy plots of land to build housing projects on returning to the Valley. They already owned land which has been taken away by the Muslims. Why can there own house and land be restored or sold and with that money the Pandits can build their own colonies in safer areas?

    Article 370 is a bugbear. Can it be solved?
     
  2.  
  3. Ajesh

    Ajesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    147
    Location:
    Bharatana
    Abdullahs's will have to co-operate with Modi Government. There is no question about it. Either You co-operate with the Governemnt to tackle Kashmir's Issue or You keep a Status Quo, which eventually benefits Nobody.

    Also, the land of Kashmiri Pandits have been snatched by "Who ever ". So there is no question about them buying Land there.

    Lastly, Atricle 370 was made due to the Terrorism Problem in Kashmir. In my Opinion, You remove Terrorism by taking some strong steps and taking along the consensus of the local Population and then abolish Article 370.

    Removing Terrorism in Kashmir should be a priority. Atricle 370 is just a By Product of It.
     
  4. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Article 310 and 370 are much older than terrorism problem in IOK. They are the fundamental right of the Kashmiris.
     
  5. Voldemort

    Voldemort Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,051
    Likes Received:
    608
    Location:
    Kolkata
    Fundamental rights of all Indians is guaranteed in the Constitution. So no need for separate rights.
     
    VIP and TrueSpirit1 like this.
  6. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    It's only for Kashmiris to decide, your constitution gave them the right in early fifties.
     
  7. Voldemort

    Voldemort Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,051
    Likes Received:
    608
    Location:
    Kolkata
    Kashmir is part of India, so the rights would have applied to them also. Im sure the act will be repealed someday. Here's more about 370. 1) What is Article 370?
    Article 370 of the Indian Constitution is a 'temporary provision' which grants special autonomous status to Jammu & Kashmir. Under Part XXI of the Constitution of India, which deals with "Temporary, Transitional and Special provisions", the state of Jammu & Kashmir has been accorded special status under Article 370. All the provisions of the Constitution which are applicable to other states are not applicable to J&K. For example, till 1965, J&K had a Sadr-e-Riyasat for governor and prime minister in place of chief minister.
    2) History of Article 370
    The provision was drafted in 1947 by Sheikh Abdullah, who had by then been appointed prime minister of Jammu & Kashmir by Maharaja Hari Singh and Jawahar Lal Nehru. Sheikh Abdullah had argued that Article 370 should not be placed under temporary provisions of the Constitution. He wanted 'iron clad autonomy' for the state, which Centre didn't comply with.
    3) Provisions of Article 370
    According to this article, except for defence, foreign affairs, finance and communications, Parliament needs the state government's concurrence for applying all other laws. Thus the state's residents live under a separate set of laws, including those related to citizenship, ownership of property, and fundamental rights, as compared to other Indians. As a result of this provision, Indian citizens from other states cannot purchase land or property in Jammu & Kashmir. Under Article 370, the Centre has no power to declare financial emergency under Article 360 in the state. It can declare emergency in the state only in case of war or external aggression. The Union government can therefore not declare emergency on grounds of internal disturbance or imminent danger unless it is made at the request or with the concurrence of the state government.
     
    VIP, TrueSpirit1 and maomao like this.
  8. Ajesh

    Ajesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    147
    Location:
    Bharatana
    Why do they want Article 370?

    Kashmir is an Indian state as any other Indian State. WHy should it want special priveleges? Just because Pakistan Wants it and encourages terrorism in that State?

    From that reasoning all the Naxal Clad States would want Article 370.

    WHy do you want Article 370?

    If You face Terrorism, cooperate with the Indian Government to Solve it. If You do not want to cooperate then something is wrong with your intention.

    Kashmir is as Indian as any other State so why special Priveleges.

    In My Opinion, Article 370 was made due to the Nexus of Adbullah,Nehru and Mountbatten. Sardar Patel was strongly opposed to it. Lets see the intentions and credibility of people involved in it.

    Abdullah: Wanted to be the king of Kashmir, SInce it was part of India and he had to be democratically elected, he chose Article 370 which was next best thing.

    And were the Adbullahs able to tackle the problem of Kashmir as yet? Terrorism is rampant till now, even after 60 Years,Pandits have been thrown out of their state to make matters worse.

    Nehru: a Foerign Educated Politicain with no sense of Practical Reality. his contribution to India, the Kashmir problem , along with the shame of losing to the Chinese.

    Mountbatten - A Typical British Man who divided India eventually and gave the last parting "Gift" of the British to India, A Lesser Land a Big Problem called Pakistan.

    Sardar Patel - The Man of the Masses who was responsible for the eventual inclusion of Hundreds of Princely states to India, who enjoyed immense popularity amongst the Masses and the COngress people as well.

    So there You go Article 370 was the result of the Nexus of the Scoundrels.

    No need of Article 370, Throw it as far as You can.



    Article 370 was made by the Nexus of Sheikh Abdullah,Nehru and Mountbatten and it was strongly opposed by Sardar Patel, the Strong Man of India.
    While Abdullah wanted to Rule Kashmir, he could not do it since it was a state of India and had to be democratically elected, so he wanted Article 370 to


    Lets see Article 370 was made by WHo and under what Circumstances
     
    TrueSpirit1 likes this.
  9. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Sheik Abdullah and Hari Singh were both selfish power hungry greedy men. If giving article 370 to Abdullah was wrong, so was the signing of Instrument of Accession by Hari Singh.

    In both cases the will of the Kashmiris was ignoredyet they accepted article 370 which atleast gave them a special status and own constitution. Without consent of local government you can not ditch the article, it will lead to civil war.
     
  10. Ajesh

    Ajesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    147
    Location:
    Bharatana
    WHy should the Local Government be given any credibility? I mean what has it done in 60 years to warrant it?

    If the Abdullahs have so much greed for Power then why couldnt they do anything about Kashmir till Now. If it was a Corporate , they would have been long time sacked.
     
  11. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Valid question but you are a democracy and in democratic countries the constitution can not be sidelined or amended without all parties agreeing. Article 370 is protected by the constitutional rights of the Kashmiris.
     
  12. Ajesh

    Ajesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    147
    Location:
    Bharatana
    At the end, democracy is also governed by People and their Biases. Hence there is no such thing as "Pathar ki Lakeer".It can be ammended. Its not like Every kashmiri voted for Article 370. It has just been decided by Abdullah and Nehru.
     
    VIP, TrueSpirit1 and maomao like this.
  13. SLASH

    SLASH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    458
    You are wrong. The Centre can amend the constitution if it has the necessary numbers. It does not need the states permission. The same it did not need the states permission for constituting article 370. It is a different issue whether they will be willing to do it or not.

    I think there should be a healthy debate on the benefits of article 370 and how it has helped Kashmir. No government in its rightful mind can repeal Article 370 without a debate. It would create more problems than it can solve. The recent separation of Telangana is a perfect example of how rushing through important decisions can be politically suicidal. In Kashmir it can lead to civil war.

    I think instead of repealing the Article 370, some amendments can be made for better integration with rest of India.
     
    TrueSpirit1 and maomao like this.
  14. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,497
    Likes Received:
    4,142
    Constitutional Rights can be changed anytime we like.....We do not have Gandhi Nehru traitors ruling the country now nor we have leftist jholchap policy makers at the center!
     
  15. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Its either pathar ki lakeer or a coup Imho...
     
  16. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    No you can't do that without revoking article 368.
     
  17. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    ‘JK people will have legitimate right to Plebiscite if Article 370 goes’
    Know Article 370


    Amid raging debate on BJP’s ‘intent’ to abrogate Article 370, eminent constitutional expert, MuzaffarHussainBaig, says any move by New Delhi to scrap the Article would entitle people of J&K to the right to plebiscite as the revocation would reverse the situation to instrument of accession wherein wishes of people would have to be ascertained.
    In an exclusive interview with Greater Kashmir’s senior correspondent Muddassir Ali, Baig, the MP-elect from People’s Democratic Party, talks about the origin of the Article 370, its permanent nature and the possible fallout of the BJP’s demand.-

    -What is Article 370?
    Article 370 is a constitutional link between Jammu and Kashmir and Union of India. It was introduced as a temporary provision in the Indian constitution till the Constituent Assembly of J&K forms its own constitution and decides whether the said Article should be amended, abrogated or removed. Under section 3 of Article 370, it was provided that the article can be removed or changed only on the recommendations of Constituent Assembly of J&K and that is why it was called a temporary provision. Since the Constituent Assembly on July 14, 1954 decided that the Article 370, which was temporary in nature, shall remain in force and therefore it became permanent feature of the Indian Constitution. It became un-amendable after the Constituent Assembly ceased to exist after 1957.

    -Tell us about the genesis of Article 370?
    When British left India there were two parts of India– British empire of India and 562 princely states including J&K. These princely states were not part of British India. They had the right to decide their fate, whether to go with India or Pakistan. All Princely States acceded to India which was ultimately followed by their merger with India and hence they became part and parcel of India and there was no division of power between these states and Union of India. But J&K only acceded to India. Since there were UN resolutions calling for plebiscite in J&K, the constituent assembly decided till a decision was taken, a temporary constitutional provision was introduced to give a shape to the relationship between the state and Union of India. This provision came to be known as Article 370.-

    -Suppose Article 370 is abrogated. What will happen?
    The Parliament can do so only under the Article 368 but any amendment made under the said article will not apply to J&K without the consent of the State Government and no State Government can give such consent.-

    -What is the connection between Article 370 and Article 1 of Indian Constitution?
    Article 1 under which J&K is included as territory of India has been applied to State under Article 370. Therefore if Article 370 goes, Article 1 will automatically cease to apply to J&K.

    -But even if Article 1 is not made applicable to J&K, yet under section 3 of the State Constitution, J&K shall remain part of India and section 3 cannot be amended in terms of section 147 of the Constitution of J&K?
    J&K Constitution was framed under the authority of the Article 370 and Instrument of Accession. If the Article 370 goes then the effect of section 3 of JK Constitution under which JK is part of India will also go. Now suppose this argument is countered by Union of India saying even if there is no section 3 of J&K constitution, the State is still part of India because of the Instrument of Accession. But in that case Union of India will face serious problems because governor general of India Lord Mountbatten while accepting Instrument of Accession pledged as soon as the situation after the raid from the Pakistan side (in 1947) becomes normal, people have the right to express their wishes, whether or not to accept the accession and in that case J&K people will have legitimate right for plebiscite.

    -BJP has been asking for a debate on whether Article 370 has benefited people of J&K or not. How will you respond to their suggestion?
    This argument can be answered on two grounds. First the issue is whether Article 370 can be amended. Since it cannot be amended then the question of state’s development is irrelevant. Now if the Article 370 can be amended then the issue of development arises. But it is a false propaganda that Article 370 is a bottleneck to development in the State because under existing laws any industrialist or business house from India can set up their units in Kashmir. This became possible after Transfer of Property Act was amended during late Sheikh Abdullah’s rule to permit industrialists and businessmen to acquire land in JK for development.

    -People say Article 370 has witnessed erosion over the years. Is it so?
    Not a single word has been altered in the Article 370 till date. Instead it has been used by the Government of India to extend laws passed by the Parliament to J&K. It has been one-side traffic all these years (from New Delhi to J&K). All amendments till and including 43rd were extended to the State and when Government of India made 44th amendment to Indian constitution abolishing right to property as a fundamental right, I, as the then advocate general of the state in 1986-87, gave opinion to the state government to oppose its extension to J&K. Late the State Government did not allow its extension to J&K. Also when the 44th amendment was made the Sarkaria Commission was at the same time tasked to review that States should be given more powers. I also based my opposition to the extension of the 44th amendment to the state on this basis.
     
  18. Ajesh

    Ajesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    147
    Location:
    Bharatana
    Coups can be good if its for the good of people.
     
  19. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Dangerous thoughts....
     
  20. Ajesh

    Ajesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    147
    Location:
    Bharatana
    Read:Coup by the Americans against British created US, Coup of sorts against British created India, Although it was far more meek and almost irrelevant given the Bad circumstances of the British.

    Coup of sorts created Bangladesh, although , yet to see its true Merit but then what was true Merit about creation of Pakistan?

    By Coup i mean, Revolting against an oppressive Government.
     
    VIP and maomao like this.
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Now who is doing the coup?

    Another coup in Pakistan?
     

Share This Page