Big New Chinese Order for Russian Fighter Engines

Discussion in 'China' started by Daredevil, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Big New Chinese Order for Russian Fighter Engines

    AIN DEFENSE PERSPECTIVE » OCTOBER 3, 2011
    by VLADIMIR KARNOZOV


    Russia has now sold nearly 1,000 AL-31 engines to China, where they power J-10 and J-11 fighters.

    October 3, 2011, 4:45 AM

    China has placed additional orders for Russian AL-31-series fighter engines. State arms trade agency Rosoboronexport clinched two big contracts earlier this year. One is for more than 150 AL-31Fs as replacements for earlier engines of same type that power the Su-27/Su-30MKK/MK2 fighters, that are designated J-11 in China. Engines under this contract will be assembled by the Ufa-based UMPO factory.


    The second contract is for more than 120 AL-31FN engines to power newly built Chengdu J-10 fighters. Engines under this contract are already being delivered, from the Moscow-based Salut plant.

    Speaking to AIN at the Aviation Expo 2011 in Beijing, Salut general director Vladislav Masalov said that negotiations continue on a second batch of nearly 140 AL-31FNs and that a follow-on contract is expected to be signed in October.

    Masalov further said that the grand total of Salut-made AL-31 series engines in China “is nearing one thousand units.” To serve them, Salut has established partnerships with Limin Corp. and Tyan Li company in Chengdu on deliveries and manufacturing of spare parts for both the AL-31F and the AL-31FN. Russia has also agreed to provide all necessary maintenance and repair documentation to the Chinese partners. Salut faces many issues pertaining to ramping up production to fill these big Chinese orders, Masalov said. This year the company must increase its production output by 30 to 40 percent to fulfill the Chinese contracts. “Certainly there is some pressure on us, with bottlenecks being metal and vendor items,” Masalov said.

    Meanwhile, Salut is negotiating the sale of another 40 AL-31FM1 engines to the Russian Air Force for the Su-27SM upgrade. Twelve have already been ordered. Talks to supply AL-31FM2 versions for the Su-34 continue, Masalov said.
     
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  3. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    WS-10 turned out to be a wuss apparently.
     
  4. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Hey Chinese posters, what happened to your boast of Ws-10 engine up and running?. Why is PLA ordering more AL-31F for J-10s if WS-10, which is so cool, was up and running. :laugh: :laugh:
     
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  5. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    DD :D

    Another stage set for engine war here!

    ---

    Even new J10s need russian engines now.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Any "leaked" photos from Russian salut plant???
     
  7. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Holy Hell
    It's not easy developing something so critical so quickly by just throwing money at it.
     
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  8. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It's not a surprise.


    It's a clear sign Chinese engine is not ready to replace Russian engine, or at least shows generals are not fully confident yet.

    Get money quick and easy is mentality of most Chinese factories. So they always seek shortcut to copy and imitate the existing design, and don't bother spend money on new innovation, since whatever invented would be quickly copied. Military factories are no exception. Such mentality and behavior are very destructive which discourages enterprise innovation and entrepreneur spirit. Since the country is not a free market and everything is dictated by CCP, the military industry is all belong to one party, factories are all party’s property and lack of competition. They are becoming ATM for corrupted military officers and money laundering machine for huge defense budget. Very few of these military factories are performing well given a higher standard but nevertheless they still make huge profit thanks to monopoly but deliver less.

    So, when it comes to very sophisticated project like jet engine, copy and reverse engineering are no longer easy to do. It requires down to the earth hard work and commitment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
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  9. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    yeah looks like Chines engine is not coming up as expected..........wonder what will happen to JXX engine.
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This means Pakistan will also have to wait or their planes. I have been saying for a long time
    that WS-10,15 etc was not happening for a long time.
     
  11. nefory

    nefory Regular Member

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    PLAAF and PLANAF has 380+ Flankers. Among these, only 50+ were newly built J11B which use WS10A. Like the article mentioned, Su27SKs, UBKs, J11As, and SU30s all use AL31F. There are also around 200 J10As which use AL31FNs. And it's been long confirmed that the first batch of J10B which will enter service in early 2012 will still use AL31FN as J10B with WS10B just started testing in late July. Considering the low production capacity of new WS10 (100+ per year), the high intensity of PLAAF flight training (120~200 hours per year), and new WS10 won't fit in old flankers and J10A (950mm diameter of WS10 vs 910mm of AL31F/FN), the new order of AL31 completely makes sense and doesn't mean anything about WS10
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  12. nefory

    nefory Regular Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    J11B/Bs with WS10A in server of PLANAF. Photo taken at Liaoyungang, Jiangsu.JJ11B/Bs with WS10A in server of PLANAF. Photo taken at Liaoyungang, Jiangsu.
    [​IMG]
    J15 powered by WS10A. You guys do understand the meaning of PLANAF accepting J15 with WS10A, don't you?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  13. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    How can you tell from these photos that there is a WS-10 engine in there??
     
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  14. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    And still the need to order Russian?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  15. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    LF for Pakistan, China will give unused and untested engines and PAF will not only readily accepted it but will make a song and dance about it as the world super engine only with PAF.
     
  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    An ugly pigeon will not turn into an eagle no matter how much you hype it.
     
  17. nefory

    nefory Regular Member

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    like I told you, there are 380+ flankers and most of them were old SKs, UBKs, and SU30s. WS10A can't fit in their rear fuselage. As India also use Flankers and Russian engines, you guys do knows AL31s aren't meant for long service time. You do need a huge storage for replacement. Considering PLAF and PLANAF do have a high density of flight training (120~200 hours per year), new order of russian engine is necessary.
     
  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Nefory do you know ws-10 has a long 30 year history of engine fires. How will this be fixed to provide the stealth Chinese claim??
     
  19. nefory

    nefory Regular Member

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    I thought you guys should know the difference. This is AL31
    [​IMG]

    and this is WS10A
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    show a picture with WS-10
     
  21. nefory

    nefory Regular Member

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    You do know WS10 and WS10A were 2 different things, don't you? WS10 never came to existence, what we see today is WS10A Taihang. WS10A design frozen in 2005, where is that 30 years of history came from? Plus, the problem of WS10A occurred back in 2008 was due to the low quality of domestic single-crystal bucket, nothing about fire or anything.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011

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