Beg, borrow or steal: IAF chief's advice to defence scientists

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Neil, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. Neil

    Neil Senior Member Senior Member

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    NEW DELHI: "Beg, borrow or steal", was the advice the Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, Air Chief Norman Anil Kumar Browne, had for defence scientists Wednesday for developing critical technologies for the armed forces.

    Browne, who was delivering a lecture at an aerospace seminar organised by the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA) here, was attempting to impress upon the defence scientists the need to develop an engine for indigenous fighter aircraft that has not happened for almost three decades.

    "You may have to beg, borrow or steal. But you have to do it," Browne said to stress that there was an urgency in locally developing the indigenous aeroengine if India has to strengthen it defence capabilities.

    India had tasked its Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) 22 years ago to develop an indigenous engine and till date has sanctioned a budget of Rs.2,893 crore (over $500 million) for its development.

    Yet, the Kaveri engine programme, envisaged as the aeroengine for the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is still to fructify and the LCA is fitted with the American GE engine.

    "This (aeroengine) is an area where we need to focus. This is one of the core technologies required by the nation," he emphasised.

    The Kaveri engine was a couple of months ago tried out on a Russian Ilyushin-76 transport aircraft test bed. It will go through further trials before being integrated on any military aircraft.

    Another key technology that Browne highlighted as an critical need for the IAF was the latest Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, which he wanted Indian defence scientists to develop indigenously.

    India's planned acquisition of 126 combat jets for which the tender is likely to be finalised this fiscal will come with AESA radars of European origin.

    Browne said development of the AESA radar indigenously would give better intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities for the IAF's planes and the commanders alike.

    These capabilities and technologies were needed, he said, as IAF's area of responsibility was now not confined within the land boundaries of India, but expanded way beyond the Indian Ocean region.



    :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::
     
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  3. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    thats the correct statement given, its in IA and IN too,
    for Arjun MBT we use German Engine, even same in IN too........
     
  4. LTE-TDD

    LTE-TDD Regular Member

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    haha! what's a great idea!
     
  5. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    Probably copied from your country !
     
  6. niceguy2011

    niceguy2011 Tihar Jail Banned

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    So, copy from the biggest copycat = ?

    LOL
     
  7. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    Well, we in R&D call it "BBS" - Beg Borrow or Steal - it's considered the LAST option ... in PRC it has become the first option ...
     
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  8. niceguy2011

    niceguy2011 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Only if another county is stupid , BBS will work.
     
  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    End justifies the means. Someone has been reading a lot of posts by our friends from PRC.


    PRC hasn't failed to impress every Indian. Kudos to you bud! LOL!
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    End Justifies Means

    End Justifies Means

    This is not my opinion; just a statement that is compelling!

    I would like to dedicate these two pictures to this thread because they are very relevant. Who can say why without Googling anything?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    btucopy1.jpg btucopy2.jpg
     
  11. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    I know I can't. The fact that you posted it means you know more than what meets the eye. So explanation please?
     
  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I will give the answer, but let's see if anyone else wants to give it a shot. :)

    Tip: Answer exists in DFI.
     
  13. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    This is my guess. A USAAF B-29 on a mission over Japan in 1945 ends up in Russia because it has not enough fuel to return to base. (Possibly before Iwo Jima was taken.) Russians keep the B-29 and paint Soviet markings on it.

    Anything like that?
     
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  14. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Excellent Sir! You nailed it. :)

    Well, Tupolev Design Bureau actually made many planes largely based on the design of the B-29. The picture you see here with the red star is not a Boeing made plane with Soviet markings, rather a Tupolev made plane based on the design of B-29.

     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
  15. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    P.S. That wouldn't be stealing. It's "finders keepers."
     
  16. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Well, yes, that is correct, but then you, being from the US, are too kind to the Soviets. :)

    The truth is that the USSR wanted to purchase these planes from the US. The latter refused fearing giving the Soviets long range capability. So when those B-29s (3 of them) landed in Soviet territory, they confiscated them, copied them and started manufacturing the Tupolev-4.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
  17. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, I will correct myself. There were three B-29s that landed in the lap of the Soviet Union.

    Edit: Just like the B-29s landed in the lap of the Soviet Union, I will fall in the lap of my bed. It's pretty late here in NC. :)

    Gute Nacht meine Herren!
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
  19. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    We have done reverse engineering in the past. But what the IAF chief is referring to is not related to our entire defence industry. He is primarily talking about our engine program. It's been in the doldrums ever since it began. There is no end date to be seen and whatever may come out will not be up to air force expectations. We cannot do anything without a successful engine development program and the beg borrow or steal mantra is the last resort.
     
  20. charlyondfi

    charlyondfi Regular Member

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    Someone already said in this forum before: when those technology denial regime tried everything to keep the gap between them and catch-up countries, they won't give a damn about ethic reason... ...

    Check this out: Ralph Emerson, USA writer, 1803-1882, frankly admitted to his British friend, Thomas Carlyle, that, back to 19th century, how American publishers won't wait a minute to pirate those England IPO books...
    http://www.c-s-p.org/flyers/978-1-4438-0072-3-sample.pdf
     
  21. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    beg borrow steal.... easier for IAF to say that but difficult in practicing. i dont want to defend India's position in future as a copycat in international or Indian forum itself. moreover increase the funding of drdo with timely release of funds with more autonomy for the scientists to work on. to subside the disaster effect on IAF fleet why the hell HAL. with decades of license production experience has not come out with a good engine design. they are just factory workers. give them a design/ mould and they will be endlessly finishing it/ making it/ casting it.

    IAF till now relied on foreign stuff and people think its the only reason that there are too many crashes and grounding of fleet. who was the man who inked the contract for such substandard equipment maker. why the timely supply of spare was not on the initial design contract. if the contract has been violated already by the design and developing firm then why HAL is keeping it from their side and not copying or continuing the production of the aircrafts.

    if mig-21 were getting old and spares were not available from international market then HAL who completely made them at home can reopen the production line of mig-21. make some modification and bring a new mig-21 in the market for IAF. but noooooo, we are big follower of bollywood and needs to keep the contract even if it had been burnt in front our eyes by the second party.

    one engine--- putting all efforts in this one engine---- tussle between officials and govt lethargy----> almost all defence projects have same fate( rejection by force.)



    conclusion:- both IAF and drdo are responsible for present blunder. IAF being stupid and drdo being handcuffed. ever seen an innovation in cage??
     
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