Barack Obama's visit to India - 2015

anoop_mig25

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lets hope they do sign some sgnificant deal both with russia and US (and not some peanuts)

As media is already ready with pdf definig both visit as photo op moment.
 

bengalraider

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lets hope they do sign some sgnificant deal both with russia and US (and not some peanuts)

As media is already ready with pdf definig both visit as photo op moment.
The Grapevine says Russia gets three more talwars for sure, there is also talk of another akula.
The Americans are going to sign for more c130s for sure. Maybe some more items still not confirmed.
 

anoop_mig25

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The Grapevine says Russia gets three more talwars for sure, there is also talk of another akula.
The Americans are going to sign for more c130s for sure. Maybe some more items still not confirmed.
I hope they include time bond delivery clause with russians and also no hidden technologies clause with americans

Also i thing points which we GoI have agreed with america on food agreement might be revealed
 

Ray

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Notwithstanding Modi was declared and outcast, BO has been invited.

It is a great lesson to teach the Americans.

That India can rise above pettiness.
 

anupamsurey

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it comes at a time when russia-pak signed bilateral security agreement......doesnt ring any bell?

as a thumb rule BJP govt are more inclined to US than russia.
 

Ray

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it comes at a time when russia-pak signed bilateral security agreement......doesnt ring any bell?

as a thumb rule BJP govt are more inclined to US than russia.
And even so, not invited! :shocked:

Inclined to the West is all because of mutual interest in the game of geostrategy.

Where is Russia in the geostrategic game that is favourable to India?
 

TrueSpirit1

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I hope they include time bond delivery clause with russians and also no hidden technologies clause with americans
We would always get a degraded version, as long as we don't sign the three military pacts — Logistics Sharing Agreement (LSA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation (BECA).

Personally, I do not see what prevents GoI from signing LSA. We are already leveraging each other bases for refueling. On the other hand, CISMOA is full of complexities & BECA is a game for another day.
 

Hari Sud

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Out of these three events, that is Obama accepting Modi invite for January 26th, Obama phoning casually to Nawaz Sharrif to let him know that he is on way to Delhi in January and last of all Russian Defence Minister in Pakistan trying to sell guns/ helicopters on credit, the first one out scores the other two.

It is a significant insult when a dignitary tells an enthusiastic host that I am not coming instead I am going to your enemy's country. That is what happened, Nawaz Sherrif was speechless. He could utter only a few words like Kashmir or ask your friend Modi to restart talk etc.

There is no room for Russians to maneuver in Pakistan. The latter were the principals in defeat of Soviet Union in Afghanistan. How can they ever forget that. At the moment they are doing everything to anger India. With declining economy Russia could not afford to annoy India when India is a three billion dollars a year customer for tanks, fighters, submarines and spare parts and upgrades. Moreover Pakistan is used to freebies, Russian cannot afford to do that. A much more prosperous US did that for 60 years. So, the Russian Defence Minister's visit to Pakistan was nothing else but annoyance.

The watershed moment is that, Obama is coming with a plane load of senators, congressmen, officials and reporters to India. What they achieve in those two days, sky is the limit.
 

Kshatriya87

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Once again the Pakistanis are pissed off as an American president is coming to India and not Pakistan. What attention seeking beggars (in @Blackwater 's words) they are.
 
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arnabmit

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as for the putinator, i'm foreseeing a big juicy defence deal to keep him happy as well. we'll probably sign for three more Talwars!
India doesn't use Russia for its geo-strategic goals, Russia does with India. Recently Russia floated the idea that MMRCA would be scrapped if Mistrals are not delivered to Russia.

Russia desperately wanted the MMRCA deal. Started courting Pak to arm-twist India. Russia sees India buying from a NATO ally as good as buying from US.

Now India by leaning a bit towards US is sending the message that if Russia courts Pak too much, Russia would loose out whatever current markets they still have.

After the 'bad cop' face, India would present the 'good cop' face by placing a massive order of Sonsa-R/Pantsir AD to replace the obsolete Strela-10/Tunguska (very high probability), Club-M Coastal Defence Battery (very high probability), the second Akula (low probability), frigates (very low probability), quick signing of contracts for FGFA (high probability).
 
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Sylex21

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India doesn't use Russia for its geo-strategic goals, Russia does with India. Recently Russia floated the idea that MMRCA would be scrapped if Mistrals are not delivered to Russia.

Russia desperately wanted the MMRCA deal. Started courting Pak to arm-twist India. Russia sees India buying from a NATO ally as good as buying from US.

Now India by leaning a bit towards US is sending the message that if Russia courts Pak too much, Russia would loose out whatever current markets they still have.

After the 'bad cop' face, India would present the 'good cop' face by placing a massive order of Sonsa-R/Pantsir AD to replace the obsolete Strela-10/Tunguska (very high probability), Club-M Coastal Defence Battery (very high probability), the second Akula (low probability), frigates (very low probability), quick signing of contracts for FGFA (high probability).
I wonder if people are over analyzing a lot of Russian actions. Russia wants to sell as many weapons to as many countries as it can and in the case of the recent Russian-Pak helicopter deal, the technology isn't really a game changer in the region or a threat to India. I bet if anything, India was pretty much ok with it. It's not like Pak picked up several Su-35's. Russia isolated a bit from the west is probably forced to ally with China more and more and so sees friendlier relations with Pak as a net positive in the Russian-Chinese cooperation. Just like India can be a good and loyal friend to Russia while improving relations with the USA, Russia probably feels it can't hurt to improve relations with Pakistan a bit. The defense agreement between the two is probably just to facilitate arms sales, and lacks any real substance.

Over time I see the real issue being Russia pressuring India into better relations with China in a sort of BRICS alliance, which is probably Russia's only shot as becoming a near super power again. India will probably lean towards the USA, because it would rather ally with a power it understands far away, than with a new super power in it's backyard. A lot of the balancing will depend on India's own strength over the coming years. If India develops like China, it will have considerably more options than if it remains roughly the same and continues to be eclipsed by China.

I might be a bit biased towards India, but I see it as the absolutely most critical swing state in the up coming great power game. Russia + China will balance USA + West, with the advantage a bit more in favor of the West. If India joins Russia and China I see that as being more than enough to tip the scales and if it joins the USA, I see the West dominating for at least another 50 years. Of course a lot of this also depends on just how powerful India is able to become over these next few critical decades.
 

asianobserve

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Modi's Diplomatic Chutzpah | The Diplomat

With his latest invite to Obama, Modi is signaling that the senseless anti-Americanism of the Indian polity is a thing of the past and there is every likelihood that Obama's visit to India could be transformative. Modi has been consistently springing up surprises on the foreign policy front and is not afraid to take risks. It is remarkable that in just eight months into office, Modi will have hosted the U.S. president, the Russian president, and the Chinese president. Not a bad start for a politician who was considered by his opponents as a provincial leader before his electoral victory! And not bad for a government which has not uttered the word non-alignment even once since assuming office!
 

Nicky G

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I might be a bit biased towards India, but I see it as the absolutely most critical swing state in the up coming great power game. Russia + China will balance USA + West, with the advantage a bit more in favor of the West. If India joins Russia and China I see that as being more than enough to tip the scales and if it joins the USA, I see the West dominating for at least another 50 years. Of course a lot of this also depends on just how powerful India is able to become over these next few critical decades.
Interesting analysis, though in my opinion for it to be as critical a swing state as you make India out to be, it needs to meet two primary condition:

First, it needs to grow at 9% for the atleast the next decade or two. Not will that increase its political clout but allow investment in defense, space, computing and other fields.

Two, it needs to take 'care' of Pak so as to render it irrlevant as far as India's role on the global stage and its perception is concerned. In my understanding, both China and West still feel that they can 'contain' India using Pak. As long as this perception exists, even if the reality doesn't, I don't feel India will get the position it deserves on the global stage.

By the way, what's your opinion on which group should India join among the ones you mentioned?
 

Sylex21

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@Singh What's a lame-duck US President gonna do for us ?
He's not just the "president of the democrats" he represents the nation of America, so from a political stand point, in this case it doesn't matter how powerful he is back home. Keep in mind after him in 2 years, the most likely front runner is another democrat Hillary Clinton, wife of Bill Clinton. Since she has a really positive history with India and has worked very closely with Obama in the past, this can still be highly beneficial to India.
 
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Sylex21

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Interesting analysis, though in my opinion for it to be as critical a swing state as you make India out to be, it needs to meet two primary condition:

First, it needs to grow at 9% for the atleast the next decade or two. Not will that increase its political clout but allow investment in defense, space, computing and other fields.

Two, it needs to take 'care' of Pak so as to render it irrlevant as far as India's role on the global stage and its perception is concerned. In my understanding, both China and West still feel that they can 'contain' India using Pak. As long as this perception exists, even if the reality doesn't, I don't feel India will get the position it deserves on the global stage.

By the way, what's your opinion on which group should India join among the ones you mentioned?
SO a couple things, India took a large economic hit over the past few years and is on the process of returning to some sort of a "norm". Growth this year will be about 5.7% and 6.6-6.7% next year. That's already pretty good from the great power play point of view. Chinese growth will continue to slow most likely as their population continues to age. So from my analysis if the current trends continue, India has already achieved the swing power in my scenario. Really I feel India is already powerful enough to be a critical swing state, but perhaps not one that guarantees victory for the faction it picks.

So I don't think India "needs" to hit 9% growth, though a very interesting thing will happen if it does, more on that later. Pakistan is already rendered irrelevant in a lot of ways, but I agree with you the process needs to be taken much further so that it can never pose a threat, even if it were to suddenly get its act together. I don't think anyone really sees Pakistan as a way to "contain" India so much as weigh it down to some extend and be a drain, slows India's rise but doesn't stop it.

So a lot of India's strategy needs to revolve around how powerful it becomes in the near future 10-30 years. If India stays a major power but doesn't catch up to near China levels, then it's best interests are served by being neutral, keeping its head down and working on nation building/economy, while making sure to keep all other great powers out of South Asia and as much of the India Ocean as it can. India needs to come across as very friendly and helpful to it's neighbors in those regions, and be very careful to be seen as a friend keeping other hostile powers out and not as the regional hegemon controlling the region. Meanwhile India should try to get as many benefits it can from both factions, playing up it's "leaning towards" each in private. Basically when talking to the Americans, India needs to be like "oh yaar we are secular liberal democracies, we both want freedom in the world. We love American culture, just check out Bollywood, we love the global Western order" and then when talking to China India needs to play up the whole "yeah guys, evil Western neo colonialists, non-white solidarity, we're both part of the new order, developing world, blah blah BRICS #1".

If India becomes a near equal to China, it can do the same thing, or join either side and that will be enough to push the balance of power and make it win. Personally I think the better side to join would be the USA. Once we get over our cultural history, anger at colonialism, mistrust of Westerners, the USA hasn't really been that bad to India. The USA has just blindly followed its own self interest, but has had no ill will in the process. Most Indian's know about America's role against India in 1971, but much less common is the talk of Kennedy sending massive airlift of supplies to support India at the end of the 1962 war, or how the USA felt giving weapons to Pakistan would make them less warlike and feel more secure in regards to India. Seeing Pakistan didn't cool off, the USA hit Pakistan with some pretty harsh sanctions that hurt it a lot after the wars with India etc...

I also think we have much more in common culturally with the Americans, our world views of what a liberal world order are pretty similar to theirs except India wants a multi-polar world. (But read that all that talk has less to do with some Indian "moral" vision and basically implies, great powers dominate their corners of the world, which would suit India just fine, if it got all of South Asia + India Ocean). But mostly, it's better to have a great power whom is predictable when it has near ultimate power, than China who has never had USA like power and so is unpredictable with it. It is also a 100x better to have a great power 1000's of miles away than in your own backyard, in the case of China.

Ok one last scenario I don't think Indian's give much thought to, but could possibly be the most important. The USA's ultimate goal is keeping as much of its power as possible. If India were to shoot far ahead of China economically, something I think rather likely given several factors that would take too long to explain here, then I think India needs to be very very careful how it manages the USA. If India's economy suddenly eclipses the USA and China one day, it needs to come across ultra non-aggressive and behind the whole Western world view, so as to not shock the Americans and cause them to form a contain India alliance the way they are creating an Anti-China coalition now. Just understanding the workings of America and Americans from living here most of my life, that is probably one of the biggest dangers to India.

I'm not really sure what India would do if it took the number one spot. If India had power like the USA did after the collapse of the Soviet Union, I'm not sure India would even want to dominate outside of South Asia/Indian Ocean. So if India's goal is limited to just that objective, then it becomes even easier to achieve and plant the seeds now. I think that is the official strategy of the Indian government now. I don't think India is particularly concerned about a Chinese land invasion, and I don't think China is in any position to do so, even if it wanted to. If India actually feared China, all military resources would be spent fortifying the boarder. Instead the Navy is given a high priority, specifically because India is laying down the foundation for its future claim over the Indian Ocean region.
 

Free Karma

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He's not just the "president of the democrats" he represents the nation of America, so from a political stand point, in this case it doesn't matter how powerful he is back home. Keep in mind after him in 2 years, the most likely front runner is another democrat Hillary Clinton, wife of Bill Clinton. Since she has a really positive history with India and has worked very closely with Obama in the past, this can still be highly beneficial to India.
Errr..What? Obama quietly reverses Hillary's 'get Modi' policy, more human rights garbage in Kashmir, using ngos to stall important power projects like Kudankulam, forcing us to stop importing cheap oil from Iran or face sanctions How do you say she has a "positive relationship", when there is ample evidence for anything but that. If you are talking about feel good speeches then there is a lot of that.
 

nrupatunga

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Folks, by any chance is potus also landing in islamabad for brief stop as well?? Also similar to last time where deals worth billions of dollars were signed, are any deals geting signed?? Which ones?? more C-130's, choppers?? javelin??
 
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Sylex21

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Errr..What? Obama quietly reverses Hillary's 'get Modi' policy, more human rights garbage in Kashmir, using ngos to stall important power projects like Kudankulam, forcing us to stop importing cheap oil from Iran or face sanctions How do you say she has a "positive relationship", when there is ample evidence for anything but that. If you are talking about feel good speeches then there is a lot of that.
The source you cited and the points it makes are very questionable. Sanctions over Iran oil, is a USA wide issue that all American parties would support against all countries, as they want to put strong pressure on Iran to limit it's nuclear program. The talk about NGO's and mass graves comes across as pure fiction, and about as credible as many things you would read in many Pakistani newspapers. If you look at the entire history of Bill and Hillary Clinton in regards to India, you will find very pro India leanings on pretty much every issue. It was said in America that after Hillary left the Obama administration, USA-India ties grew colder as there was no major pro India supporter left in the Obama camp to champion issues.

WASHINGTON — The close ties with India that Secretary of State-nominee Hillary Rodham Clinton forged during her years as a U.S. senator and presidential candidate could complicate diplomatic perceptions of her ability to serve as a neutral broker between India and its nuclear neighbor, Pakistan.
AP: Clinton's India Ties Could Complicate Obama Policy

Ties between the United States and India improved dramatically, as did Pakistani suspicions of pro-India bias in Washington, during Bill Clinton's administration, which embraced India as a major power and market as it opened its economy in the 1990s.

The administration's disparate treatment of India and Pakistan was most apparent during a 2000 Asian trip, with the president spending five days in India and seven hours in Pakistan.
 

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