Balkanization of Pakistan

asingh10

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your acts will unite Muslims. Nothing else. Remember Iraq iran war and ongoing Arab Vs Iran confrontation. US plays well.
They are united as far as we are concerned anyway, are you sleeping ? See the Shia mullah's who are calling for Kamlesh's head. You are suggesting that we become Dhimmis to Shias instead of Sunnis, and this is some how more beneficial to us. Iran actively supports many Shia militias in India. I don't want to drag India into their internationalist crap :-

http://scroll.in/article/776536/shi...detention-in-nigeria-of-an-iran-backed-cleric

Iran-Iraq war e.g. is meaningless, it was war between a Shia theocracy and a secular socialist Baa'thist dictatorship. Today, Iran works with Arabs and Sunni terrorist groups like Hamas when it comes to Israel.
 

asingh10

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Not concerned about what their theology mythology says. We are discussing about Balkanisation of Pakistan. And what ever required, govt will do. Whether by religious confrontation, through confrontation of two political parties, proxy, etc. That is the topic right now.
Shia - Sunni rivalry is not greater than their shared contempt for idolators and polytheists. That's the basic creed of Islam.

Balkanization of Bahamanid Sultanate did not end troubles for Vijaynagar. The constituent sultanates ganged up on Vijaynagar in Talikota.

Balkanization is only a short term solution.
 

Screambowl

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They are united as far as we are concerned anyway, are you sleeping ? See the Shia mullah's who are calling for Kamlesh's head. You are suggesting that we become Dhimmis to Shias instead of Sunnis, and this is some how more beneficial to us. Iran actively supports many Shia militias in India. I don't want to drag India into their internationalist crap :-

http://scroll.in/article/776536/shi...detention-in-nigeria-of-an-iran-backed-cleric

Iran-Iraq war e.g. is meaningless, it was war between a Shia theocracy and a secular socialist Baa'thist dictatorship. Today, Iran works with Arabs and Sunni terrorist groups like Hamas when it comes to Israel.

currently the biggest religion is money!


KSA is utilising its money for creation of pro wahabi outfits in Pakistan and might be funding ISI against India.

If you really want to discuss history of Islam. It is full of power snatching.

Mongols, converted themselves to muslims and changed a lot the way Islam was, to make the Arab influence weaker, after they captured Mecca.

Similarly, you have long term goal and short term goal.

Pakistan is a part of that long term goal, but short term destination.
 

asingh10

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currently the biggest religion is money!


KSA is utilising its money for creation of pro wahabi outfits in Pakistan and might be funding ISI against India.

If you really want to discuss history of Islam. It is full of power snatching.

Mongols, converted themselves to muslims and changed a lot the way Islam was, to make the Arab influence weaker, after they captured Mecca.

Similarly, you have long term goal and short term goal.

Pakistan is a part of that long term goal, but short term destination.
Bhaisaab baat samajhiye.

GM Syed was one of the biggest supporters of Pakistan movement. He became a Sindhi separatist and launched the Sindhu Desh movement but that doesn't undermine his anti-Hindu bigotry.



Source : Pakistan, The Struggle Within by Wilson John

Even Mujib had his eyes on Assam and WB, was Suhrawardy's right hand man during Calcutta riots. He became a separatist later on but clearly those Bong leaders never really gave up their anti Hindu tendencies or their designs in North East, and the result is evident today. It's common for Muslims to flip flop like this but they keep going back to Ummah internationalism as their doctrine commands, will always back their brothers against us when it counts. Balkanization won't help you in long term at all.
 

Screambowl

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Bhaisaab baat samajhiye.

GM Syed was one of the biggest supporters of Pakistan movement. He became a Sindhi separatist and launched the Sindhu Desh movement but that doesn't undermine his anti-Hindu bigotry.



Source : Pakistan, The Struggle Within by Wilson John

Even Mujib had his eyes on Assam and WB, was Suhrawardy's right hand man during Calcutta riots. He became a separatist later on but clearly those Bong leaders never really gave up their anti Hindu tendencies, and the result is evident today. It's common for Muslims to flip flop like this but they keep going back to Ummah internationalism as their doctrine commands, will always back their brothers against us when it counts. Balkanization won't help you in long term at all.
We are not discussing 1947.

We are discussing the vulnerability of Pakistan and it's weak points in 2015. :)
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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@asingh10 - there needs to be careful when dealing with muslims in general but the fault-lines can definitely be exploited in Pak.

Once Pak is de-nuclearized, the small factions would not be a problem if they continue to neglect science the way they are doing now.
 

asingh10

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@asingh10 - there needs to be careful when dealing with muslims in general but the fault-lines can definitely be exploited in Pak.

Once Pak is de-nuclearized, the small factions would not be a problem if they continue to neglect science the way they are doing now.

All for it but don't count on it
is what I'm saying. Bhakti movement converted millions of Muslims back peacefully. We need something like that again.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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All for it but don't count on it
is what I'm saying. Bhakti movement converted millions of Muslims back peacefully. We need something like that again.
Times have changed, they were recent converts and may be swayed by bhakti movement. It would not happen now. Anyway, the thread is about balkanization of Pak!
 

asingh10

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Times have changed, they were recent converts and may be swayed by bhakti movement. It would not happen now. Anyway, the thread is about balkanization of Pak!

Not my religious zeal but see conversion as a means to re-indianize them and neuter this threat forever. Permanent solution to the Pakistan problem.
 
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asingh10

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Lala Hardayal's solution to Pakistan problem in 1925. It was published in the form of a statement which appeared in the Pratap of Lahore. In this statement, which he called his political testament, Lala Hardayal said:



On the fakery that goes on in the name of Hindu sanghathan, allusion to RSS like organizations :-

 

Detective Pennington

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Priorities should be:
1. Creating an independent Balochistan and then giving the land to Iran so they are happy.
2. Ceate Sindhudesh but installed a Pro-India leader.
Also take GB/POK for strategic reasons.

We can worry about Pakjab and KPK/FATA later since they're all crazy radicals.
 

I_PLAY_BAD

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Ok. What is it with you people and secularism? Seriously why this obcession? Has secularism saved USA or even France ? Why would it save you?
I follow and support Secularism which doesn't hurt my religion.

I am against Secularism practiced and propagandized by Politicians and pesudo-seculars.
Eg : When someone says Muslims are in bad economic situation so let us give them a 10% quota. I cannot accept that kind of secularism as only 14% of Indian population is considered here. What about the remaining 86% of which more than 35% (Double the number of total Indian Muslims) is still Below Poverty Line? Like many Hindus, Muslims also didn't develop and remain poor even today. So why the special treatment for Muslims alone is the ask. As a politician, if you are doing it just for votes then I will call you an SoB or a Bas****.

Simply, Secularism can be followed when we want harmony and peaceful co-existence. If those aspects are severely threatened in the name of Secularism then we may have to introspect.
 

I_PLAY_BAD

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question to everyone discussing in this thread.
Do you all seriously think Balkanization of Pakistan is going to be a reality at some point of time in the future ?
I seriously don't know. I am amazed looking at the level of vigor and confidence you guys are discussing about this. Wish and reality are different.
 

Detective Pennington

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I can see Balochistan and Sindh coming free, as the locals get more and more fed up with Pakjabis and Pashtuns. Only thing is the army would suppress it, there would have to be a massive effort from India.

Kashmir and GB I could see coming free but not to join India, to be their own country, if they joined India it would cause too many problems but it would be useful geographically.

Hypothetically, India alone could do these things, the missile defense systems are strong enough to intercept a Pakistani nuke. The problem is that other countries who do not want such a thing to happen may interfere as we've discussed. Iran for example does not want tn independent Balochistan, so something would have to go in there to Make Iran happy, maybe allow an Iranian puppet to take over but if we do this by helping the three most powerful tribes then they are not going to want an Iranian puppet in charge because they know that the Iranians are oppressing their bretherin in Sistan-Balochistan. So something would have to be done in order to not ruin relations with Iran or have VAJA interfere in the process.

There is also saudi arabia qatar and turkey who like the Pakjabi establishment and would give them money to help fight that war, but India would ultimately win, we would get help from Afghanistan, money is not going to be the tipping factor, especially because those countries don't have high level technology.

There is also China, China wants to keep Pakistan together because it weakens India and Pakistan gives them access to the Middle eastern oil market. also CPEC. China will lose a lot from a Balkanized Pakistan made up of India friendly states. Because of this, China would lend military aid to Pakistan.

I don't know why you guys are saying that the west would help out Pakistan. What do they have to gain from an intact Pakistan? Pakistan is hiding all these terrorists like Osama and Taliban which are hurting the US Afghan plans, I don't see why they would help out.

The only real problem is China here.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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question to everyone discussing in this thread.
Do you all seriously think Balkanization of Pakistan is going to be a reality at some point of time in the future ?
I seriously don't know. I am amazed looking at the level of vigor and confidence you guys are discussing about this. Wish and reality are different.
It is inevitable. They are doing enough themselves. With US aid gone, it will fall down quickly. Question is whether India can play a bigger role in destabilizing it?
 

Kshatriya87

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If a Western Coalition plus India invaded Sindh and destroyed all the military bases (along with conquering and dividing the rest of Pakistan), can't they train the Sindhis to have their own army? The independence groups (JS something) can then be the two political parties representing it after a government is created.
This idea was alive and well when the nukes were not involved. We could still use this idea if the pakis sign / adhere to the "no first use" policy. Since they have openly mentioned that the nukes will be used if the territorial integrity of Pakistan is in question, India does not have that luxury anymore. Best thing we can do is perform massive arms and ammunitions smuggling inside pak and make sure they land in the hands of rebels. (balochis, Taliban, Pashtuns etc.)
 

Kshatriya87

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Now why would a western coalition attack pak,do they have prior claim over sindh ?They can't even invade Syria let alone pak.

similarly India can't annex sindh the boundary in that region is settled apart from Ran of Kutch,besides there are nukes involved.

However to bargain POK,we can invade areas bordering Rajasthan (sindh) and Punjab and force Pakis to use their tactical nukes inside pak,especially the fertile plains of Punjab,the paki food belt.
I do not think this will stop them from using the nukes. Remember the phrase "We will eat grass if we have to, but we will build a nuke"? Besides, tactical nukes do not have that much of a blast radius to have a significant effect on fertile lands.
 

Kshatriya87

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sindh will return to india , especially with large numbers of MQM in there ...so too will pok and Gilgit -B

and india will take the entire coastal region of balouchistan

so b-stan will be a land-based country like a-stan

punjab will be diffiult ......india shoul take lahore whih atually was hinu majority before the iret action of pakjabis an a few other border areas but otherwise india should appease the pakjabis by allowing them to retain most of baluchistan and nwfp

the pakjabi population should as far as possible be pushed into baluchistan and nwfp and they will share territory with balouchis and pakhtoons and they can have perpetual civil war amongst themselves if they cant get along and that will keep them busy for the next 500 years

this is the best solution i can think of to avoid an all out nuke war with MAD but we may have to pay the price of a couple of nukes going off here and there before India proposes to pakjabis a solution where they still get to keep the rump of b.stan and all of nwfp

so we will have a new pakjabstan, a land-based country just as today's a-stan is ...... consisting of parts of todays pak -controlled punjab, nwfp plus b-stan ( minus the coastal area ) ..... to appease iran, b-stan cant be given independence so push them into a forced ( unstable ) coalition with the pakjabs and pakhtoons so they can blame and fight each other and the blame is off india

as they will not have any access to the sea, the CPEC becomes useless and they can get access via iran ....now if iran in unhappy about that, then it becomes a 5-cornered fight and we can easily sell this idea to the usa and Zionists because they will love the idea of 5 mooose countries fighting among themselves ! so the idea is feasible in that sense

no territory will be given to a-stan .....if they want it they will have to come get it from beloush and pakjabis who will then live in b-stan ( minus the coastal region which goes to india ) and that will make it a beautiful 4 - cornered fight and keep them busy among themselves and thus have no time nor resources to bother india ...... for a looong time ! ( happily ever after !! )

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Happily ever after only if India doesn't make the stupid mistake of letting them build a nuke again. That was by far the WORST call India has made. If like Israel, we would have bombed their nuke plants/reactors, probably we wouldn't have had to think so much before attacking them. There of course is option of buying nukes from the shelf, but also could be cancelled out by restricting their ballistic missile technologies.
 

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