Bajrang Dal men get arms training 'to save Hindus'

Vishwarupa

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Look like every political camp want riot before UP election & the saddest thing is after its over hyper active nationalist on net will be defending & would be justifying it sitting comfortabley in their AC homes...nobody would care about the dead people ,women raped like the previous riot in UP before national election
What will people sitting in AC rooms say about Naxalites (funded by Christian missionaries and ISI) and organizations like popular front of India ( PFI) who are open treat to our sovereignty?

For every action there should be equal and opposite reaction but our Hindu groups are soo compassionate that they are still using latis, sticks and dummy guns for training.

The same noble people sitting in AC rooms think about women being raped by Hindu groups but fail to see when Naxalites do. Where are human right activists, peaceniks, aaptards, NGOs?
 

Kshatriya87

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Bajrang dal is a gang of low IQ retards who has no work other than doing riots just before & after election like 2002 & many countless others targeting religious minority ,they are probably the dumbest of all the right wing outfits in secular india
They are also probably the only ones who are going save your ass by keeping the islamists at bay during riots.
 

Navnit Kundu

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Look like every political camp want riot before UP election & the saddest thing is after its over hyper active nationalist on net will be defending & would be justifying it
What sympathetic reaction did self-proclaimed peace loving Muslims offer when Hindu saints were burnt alive in Godhra?

If Muslims really hate riots so much, the simplest way to achieve that goal is to stop burning people alive by starting riots in the first place. I think anyone with a common sense can understand that. For a community which claims to hate violence, Muslims sure do romanticize it a lot. It's amusing that they don't see the counter-intuitiveness of their approach to their declared goal of peaceful coexistence. Riots aren't good for any side, everyone loses. But for them to stop, each side will have to be on the same page as far as admitting that riots are bad.

As long as one side keeps seeing riots as an asymmetric tool to subjugate a larger 'adversary' and to keep Muslims united under a manufactured fear psychosis, the allure of inciting them will never be completely wiped out.

If you are so averse to riots, how about you stop burning Hindus alive for sport? how's that for some peaceful advice? Once a forest fire is ignited, no one has control over how many trees get consumed in that fire and there is no telling when that fire stops. If you don't like being burnt then don't play with fire. Debating about the intensity and scale of the fire is orthogonal once the damage is already done. One can ruminate the horrific stories for years to come and still face a shortage of time to cover all stories. That is what makes it all the more important to not be so excited about the endorsements

Owaisi asking the police to be removed for 15 minutes so that Muslims can kill off 100 crore Hindus doesn't exactly inspire confidence in Muslim claims of a will to peaceful coexistence. Don't you think, dear intellectual?

If these are the voices emanating out of the peaceful community, Hindus will have to take counter-measures to defend themselves. I see the BD as a natural and spontaneous (yet, delayed and overdue) response to declared Muslim willingness and endorsement of aggression as a means to achieve their goals. By making the use of violence costly, it will only force the peaceful community to shun the previously lucrative avenue of riots and come to the negotiating table and sort out all difference amicably in a civilized manner, one which they have hardly known in the past. In fact, it is the absence of a group like BD which made the use of violence a lucrative option for the peaceful community. That loophole has been preemptively deterred now.
 
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south block

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What will people sitting in AC rooms say about Naxalites (funded by Christian missionaries and ISI) and organizations like popular front of India ( PFI) who are open treat to our sovereignty?

For every action there should be equal and opposite reaction but our Hindu groups are soo compassionate that they are still using latis, sticks and dummy guns for training.

The same noble people sitting in AC rooms think about women being raped by Hindu groups but fail to see when Naxalites do. Where are human right activists, peaceniks, aaptards, NGOs?
i thought paramilitary are fighting kabootars from across the border all this time thanks for telling me that government is taking no action against them
 

south block

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What sympathetic reaction did self-proclaimed peace loving Muslims offer when Hindu saints were burnt alive in Godhra?

If Muslims really hate riots so much, the simplest way to achieve that goal is to stop burning people alive by starting riots in the first place. I think anyone with a common sense can understand that. For a community which claims to hate violence, Muslims sure do romanticize it a lot. It's amusing that they don't see the counter-intuitiveness of their approach to their declared goal of peaceful coexistence. Riots aren't good for any side, everyone loses. But for them to stop, each side will have to be on the same page as far as admitting that riots are bad.

As long as one side keeps seeing riots as an asymmetric tool to subjugate a larger 'adversary' and to keep Muslims united under a manufactured fear psychosis, the allure of inciting them will never be completely wiped out.

If you are so averse to riots, how about you stop burning Hindus alive for sport? how's that for some peaceful advice? Once a forest fire is ignited, no one has control over how many trees get consumed in that fire and there is no telling when that fire stops. If you don't like being burnt then don't play with fire. Debating about the intensity and scale of the fire is orthogonal once the damage is already done. One can ruminate the horrific stories for years to come and still face a shortage of time to cover all stories. That is what makes it all the more important to not be so excited about the endorsements

Owaisi asking the police to be removed for 15 minutes so that Muslims can kill off 100 crore Hindus doesn't exactly inspire confidence in Muslim claims of a will to peaceful coexistence. Don't you think, dear intellectual?

If these are the voices emanating out of the peaceful community, Hindus will have to take counter-measures to defend themselves. I see the BD as a natural and spontaneous (yet, delayed and overdue) response to declared Muslim willingness and endorsement of aggression as a means to achieve their goals. By making the use of violence costly, it will only force the peaceful community to shun the previously lucrative avenue of riots and come to the negotiating table and sort out all difference amicably in a civilized manner, one which they have hardly known in the past. In fact, it is the absence of a group like BD which made the use of violence a lucrative option for the peaceful community. That loophole has been preemptively deterred now.
an answer to a riot is not a riot..then whats the difference between both & BD like organisations has done greater harm to so called hindu cause then islamic retards could ever
 

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They are also probably the only ones who are going save your ass by keeping the islamists at bay during riots.
actually where i live there something called police & law & order...their no presence of low IQ BD & islamic retards so no chance of riots in first place
 

Kshatriya87

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actually where i live there something called police & law & order...their no presence of low IQ BD & islamic retards so no chance of riots in first place
Law & Order & Police were also there in Kashmir. Still the pandits got slaughtered. It was there in Gujarat, still the hindus got burned alive. It was there in Malda, look what happened.

When things get out of hands, even the cops don't do anything. By the time military intervenes, many are dead already. So until the military comes in, everyone gets slaughtered unless you hit them back. Bajrang Dal / Dharma Sena etc. (I'm hoping) are those people who will hit them back.
 

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an answer to a riot is not a riot..then whats the difference between both & BD like organisations has done greater harm to so called hindu cause then islamic retards could ever
No one wants riots but this pussified behavior of indian hindu is the reason for 1000 year slavery. THose people are ready to strap a bomb on their chest and explode themselves in a crowded market and here u are against few people who playing with laathis and sticks.
 

south block

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Law & Order & Police were also there in Kashmir. Still the pandits got slaughtered. It was there in Gujarat, still the hindus got burned alive. It was there in Malda, look what happened.

When things get out of hands, even the cops don't do anything. By the time military intervenes, many are dead already. So until the military comes in, everyone gets slaughtered unless you hit them back. Bajrang Dal / Dharma Sena etc. (I'm hoping) are those people who will hit them back.
Good luck & get ready used to hear more of hindu fundamentalism ,hindu terrorism all over the world
 

Kshatriya87

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Good luck & get ready used to hear more of hindu fundamentalism ,hindu terrorism all over the world
Thanks but firstly, you need to recheck the definition of terrorism given the fact you are so casually throwing the term around. Also check difference between Hindu extremism and Islamic extremism.

Even then you don't get convinced, no problem for me. I would take Hindu "terrorism" anytime when opposed to Islamic suppression.
 

OneGrimPilgrim

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why dhoti-shiver when the facts are here?!

The Myth of Hindu Terror

13 May 2016

by
Rupa Subramanya


What the data says: India faces bigger threats from Jihad and Maoism

IN 2009, ACCORDING to WikiLeaks, Congress leader Rahul Gandhi had told the then US Ambassador to India, Timothy Roemer, that “the bigger threat [than Islamic terrorism] may be the growth of radicalised Hindu groups, which create religious tensions and political confrontations with the Muslim community.” We have no way of knowing on what basis Gandhi made this assessment, nor do we know quite what his fears were. He could perhaps have had in mind communal violence or perhaps even acts of terrorism.

Then Home Minister P Chidambaram was more explicit at a gathering of intelligence experts when in 2010 he warned of the danger of “saffron terrorism”. He further pointed to “many bomb blasts of the past”, again without giving any analytical basis for his claim or furnishing data to back it up.

Not to be outdone, Chidambaram’s successor Sushil Kumar Shinde raised the spectre of ‘saffron terrorism’ in 2013, pointing to a few alleged incidents, but without putting them in the larger context of all terror acts committed by all perpetrator groups in the same period. Almost a month later, after a backlash, Shinde apologised for his remarks.

Recently, the historian and commentator Ramachandra Guha argued that ‘Hindu fundamentalism’ is a greater danger to India than ‘Islamic terrorism’. Guha’s stated reason for saying so is that Hindus constitute an overwhelming majority of India’s population and therefore fundamentalists from their ranks pose a bigger threat. However, he presents no data or any serious evidence to support his thesis.

These are but a few examples of the types of claims around ‘saffron terror’ and Hindu extremism one hears from establishment politicians and commentators. It’s not surprising that politicians of a party which relies on minority votes make vague claims about ‘saffron terror’ without backing them up. What is less excusable is a scholar of Guha’s distinction making similar claims.

Do such claims stand up to scrutiny? Is ‘saffron terror’ a greater threat than Islamic terror in India? Such assertions need to be weighed against the evidence.

A large and as yet oddly unexploited dataset exists and is the basis for the analysis presented here. The Global Terrorism Database (GTD) is maintained by the US-based National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START). It is the largest and most scientifically compiled database on global terror and is being constantly updated. For India, there are close to 10,000 events identified between 1972 and 2014.

The demolition of the Babri mosque in 1992 shows up in the Global Terrorism Database as a terrorist act committed by a Hindu group

The GTD has a precise and rigorous definition of terrorism. A terrorist act is defined as ‘the threatened or actual use of illegal force and violence by a non-state actor to attain a political, economic, religious, or social goal through fear, coercion, or intimidation’. This excludes the legitimate use of violence by the state, and is confined to non-state actors who intentionally use violence or its threat to try to achieve a well-defined goal.

Each event is coded with a varying level of detail, which allows researchers to determine with a fair amount of accuracy the identity of the perpetrator group. Analysing this data will therefore let us test the data-free hypotheses put forth about the threat of ‘saffron terror’. It took me more than a month to code such a huge dataset, as I manually worked through each incident and where possible, fact-checked the coding in the database by looking at relevant reports of that alleged terror incident. While extremely time-consuming, this methodology is superior to using mechanical algorithms to code events as the judgement of the researcher is required when the facts are incomplete or uncertain.

Scholars like to think of terrorism and communal violence as two distinct categories, each with different causes and explanations, but in practice they’re not always easy to separate. Even with a rigorous definition of terrorism, there are grey areas. For instance, what is the status of a terror incident which then morphs into an episode of communal violence? Whether it is coded as ‘terrorism’ or not depends on whether the subsequent communal violence contained elements of it or not.

The assassination of Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards, for example, appears as it should in the GTD as a terrorist act. However, the anti-Sikh pogrom in Delhi orchestrated by senior Congress leaders does not figure in the database, as it did not contain elements of terrorism. As another example, the demolition of the Babri mosque in 1992 shows up in the GTD as a terrorist act committed by a Hindu group. But in this case, the riots which erupted in several Indian cities (including Bombay), orchestrated by various political parties, also show up because they featured elements of terrorism such as bomb throwing.

In incidents of Pakistani terror in India, it is difficult to disentangle the role of Pakistani agents as against local Indian recruits

One unfortunate gap in the GTD which should be noted is that due to a transition from one keeper of the data to another, the 1993 record was lost. My analysis, therefore, does not pick up incidents of that year—such as the Bombay serial blasts—that represented the continued aftermath of the Babri mosque demolition.

In some cases, information that was unavailable at the time of an incident allowed me to more accurately code the perpetrator. For instance, on 29 May 2002, serial bombings occurred in Ahmedabad and were coded by the GTD team as having an ‘Unknown’ perpetrator, since no individual or group claimed responsibility. However, since then, four individuals were convicted of them by the Gujarat High Court and it was established that the motive was retribution for the communal violence that took place earlier that year sparked by the burning to death of Hindu pilgrims on a train in Godhra. Therefore, I’ve coded these incidents as caused by a Muslim perpetrator group.

So as to stack the deck against myself, I have furthermore coded several incidents which are still working through the legal system as ‘Hindu’ where the GTD refers to perpetrator group as ‘Unknown’. These include so-called saffron terror incidents such as the 2008 Malegaon blasts, where Hindu groups are suspected, but the case is still ongoing. Revelations at the time of writing cast serious doubt on whether the perpetrators were Hindu; but again, to be fair, I’ve retained the Hindu coding. What is more, the few incidents of caste-related violence of the type perpetrated by Bihar’s Ranvir Sena, which show up in the GTD and are coded as ‘Unknown’, have here been coded as ‘Hindu’, even in a few cases where it’s not clear whether the motivation was necessarily religious.

As we’ve seen in several incidents of allegedly caste-based violence, the motives may sometimes be economic and have nothing to do with the caste or religion of either perpetrators or victims. By coding the small number of such cases as ‘Hindu’, if anything, the number of incidents of Hindu terror would be slightly higher than the reality.

We should focus on the principal existential threats emanating from extreme left wing ideology, which fuels Maoist extremism

With these caveats in mind, the overall coding of the dataset reckons with the fact that the perpetrator group can be clearly identified by religion in some cases, and in other cases by highly specific, geographically well-defined insurgencies, which may or may not have anything to do with religion. Thus, following other research on terrorism within India, incidents within the regions of Jammu & Kashmir, the Maoist belt, and the Northeast are coded as such not by religious or any other identity of the perpetrator group. Another small group of incidents are coded as referring to the Tamil insurgency in Sri Lanka which spilled over into India.

By contrast, incidents that took place outside these well-defined geographical insurgencies are categorised by the religion of the perpetrator group—in particular, Hindu, Muslim or Sikh. A very small number of incidents fall into the category ‘Foreign’, such as terror strikes, which occurred in India but were unrelated to Indian issues. Two examples from 1972 were hijackings by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the Japanese Red Army, both involving aircraft which had landed on or taken off from Indian soil.

Readers might wonder why there is no separate code for terrorist incidents in India emanating from Pakistan, the obvious example being the Mumbai attacks of 26/11. The difficulty is that in many incidents of presumed Pakistani terror in India, be it in J&K or elsewhere, it is often difficult if not impossible to disentangle the responsibility and role of Pakistani agents and mercenaries as against local Indian recruits and sympathisers. Thus, as mentioned, all incidents in J&K are coded by the geographic region, not as ‘Muslim’, even if some evidence exists in a particular incident of direct Pakistani or jihadi involvement. By contrast, the 26/11 attack is coded as ‘Muslim’, given that the motivation was religious. Recall that one of the targets was a Jewish cultural centre in Mumbai.

Lastly, where too little information was known to properly code an incident, or it was related to violence between political parties but unrelated to religion or identity, it was categorised as ‘Unknown, Other’.

Islamic terrorism is five times more likely to occur than Hindu terrorism, even excluding Jammu and Kashmir

Bearing all of the above in mind, here are the main findings, from a total of 9,069 incidents between 1972 and 2014: Maoist: 29 per cent; Northeast: 25 per cent; J&K: 21 per cent; Sikh: 13 per cent; Unknown/Other: 6 per cent; Sri Lankan: less than 1 per cent; Foreign: less than 1 per cent; Muslim: 3 per cent; Hindu: 0.6 per cent.

If one breaks down the data into decades, the numbers reveal that the 1980s were dominated by Sikh terrorism and the 1990s were dominated by terror in J&K. In the 2000s, the Northeast overtakes J&K. Finally, from 2010 to 2014, we a see a big spike in Maoist terrorism—the largest during this phase, as indeed for the whole period under consideration.

These striking results do not bear out the fear-mongering and alarmist hypothesis of ‘saffron terror’. What is reconfirmed is that the Maoist conflict is the biggest threat that the nation faces, accounting for almost a third of total incidents. Maoist terrorism, as we know, is not motivated by religion but by the extremist left wing ideology of perpetrator groups such as the Communist Party of India (Maoist) whose stated goal is the destruction of the Indian republic. As against this, such violence tends to be confined to an admittedly large swathe of central and eastern India.

Likewise, the large share of incidents in the Northeast are not related directly to religion, but reflect the ambitions of various local insurgent groups in places like Manipur, Nagaland and Assam.

As noted before, the large share of terror incidents in J&K requires care in interpreting. While related to a geographically defined insurgency, namely by groups which believe that the state should be either independent of India or join Pakistan, it is also true that the major perpetrator groups in J&K do have an Islamist motivation. That accounts for incidents of violence directed at Kashmiri Pandits, many of whom have consequently been driven out of their ancestral homes— which some would argue amounts to ethnic cleansing.

It would be disingenuous to claim that the large share of J&K incidents are unrelated to Islamism, which clearly is a motivation both for perpetrators within the region and those they might be working with in Pakistan’s military and intelligence establishment.

If terrorist incidents in J&K were considered Islamic and added to the non-geographical ‘Muslim’ category, then almost a quarter of all terror incidents in this long period would be considered Muslim and be tied with terrorism in the Northeast as second only after Maoist terrorism.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, we exclude J&K from the analysis and assess the ‘saffron terror’ claims purely on incidents of Islamic terrorism outside that state—we would still find that incidents coded ‘Muslim’ were five times as many as incidents coded ‘Hindu’. Given that Hindus account for about 80 per cent of India’s population, according to the latest census, and Muslims for about 14 per cent, so that there are roughly five times as many Hindus as Muslims, the data tell us that the likelihood of a terror incident coded ‘Muslim’ is disproportionately higher than one coded ‘Hindu’ when you adjust for their respective population shares.

This means that in India, Islamic terrorism is five times more likely to occur than Hindu terrorism, even excluding J&K. These hard numbers fly in the face of glib assertions that ‘saffron terror’ rather than Islamism-motivated terrorism is a bigger threat.

As a test of whether these results are an artefact of my coding, compare this with a similar coding exercise conducted by a different research group, the South Asia Terrorism Portal (SATP), which comes up with broadly similar findings. Note that this dataset includes both acts of terror and low-intensity conflict and therefore has a larger number of events. For a total of about 20,000 events between 2005 and 2016, Maoist or Left Wing Extremism again tops the list at almost 35 per cent, with the Northeast at 30 per cent and J&K at 29 per cent. Islamist terrorism outside these regions was about 4.1 per cent and Hindu or saffron terrorism was about 0.6 per cent. While the methodology and time periods are different, these findings are broadly consistent with mine, which covers a much longer time period, but with a narrower definition of terrorism.

Far from pontificating about so-called ‘saffron terror’ and Hindu fundamentalism, we should focus on the principal existential threats to the Indian state emanating from extreme left wing ideology, which fuels Maoist extremism, as well as the jihadi Islamist ideology, which is at the root of terrorism in J&K and other such terrorism outside that state.

Sensible folk, those not wearing ideological and other blinkers, should be concerned by the story that the hard numbers tell us.

(Rupa Subramanya is a co-author, with Vivek Dehejia, of Indianomix: Making Sense of Modern India)

keywords - myth of Hindu terror, Rupa Subramanya, saffron terror, Hindu terror
 

south block

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Thanks but firstly, you need to recheck the definition of terrorism given the fact you are so casually throwing the term around. Also check difference between Hindu extremism and Islamic extremism.

Even then you don't get convinced, no problem for me. I would take Hindu "terrorism" anytime when opposed to Islamic suppression.
using voilence ,terrorising people to further one own goals in my book amount to terrorism period
 

Kshatriya87

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using voilence ,terrorising people to further one own goals in my book amount to terrorism period
But who is using violence? These guys are just learning self defence !!

And they will use the skills they learn when it is necessary. How is it wrong?

It's like saying the Indian army amounts to terrorism. Because they learn self defence. In fact they go one step further, they learn offence as well !! So would you call then terrorists?

Tell me, is learning self defence wrong? Is using violence to defend yourselves and your religion wrong?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 
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OneGrimPilgrim

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The guns which these kids are using are actually air guns which are used in circuses and street fairs to pop balloons. It's not illegal to own these guns, one doesn't even need licences.
wow! didn't know that! so much of rudaali over THIS?!
but the only crime the 'retarded' BD did was - why did they use the legendary TOPI! damnit!
 

Ancient Indian

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Huh the
Good luck & get ready used to hear more of hindu fundamentalism ,hindu terrorism all over the world
Can you define what Hindu fundamentalism and hindu terrorism mean?
AFAIK hindu people only live in sub-continent. How can it terrorize all the world?

@OneGrimPilgrim
What the heck TOPI means, bro?
 
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OneGrimPilgrim

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someone recalls burqua's burq-hurt with Tathagata Roy's response to a tweet deriding Hindus as cowards?! same smell as that emanating from this thread too.
 

Vishwarupa

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i thought paramilitary are fighting kabootars from across the border all this time thanks for telling me that government is taking no action against them
If at all government takes any action it should first take action against Naxalites, Peaceniks, NGOs, Aman Ki asha brigade, PFI & MIM before touching BD.
 

OneGrimPilgrim

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well, i didn't see such dhoti-shivering in the 'haay daiyya' media nor in the peaceniks over the TMC mercenaries creating hundreds of secular bumm under their 'make in india' campaign?! not even when some of them exploded with uncontainable glee...
 

south block

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Please feel free to point our where I have even so much as implied that there should be a riot to respond to a riot? Don't create a strawman to pin your lack of comprehension skills on others. I've clearly asserted that a riot is not desirable under any circumstances. Here, let me quote myself again in case you missed it earlier, deliberately or otherwise :



The group which BD has formed is only a self defense group and not a direct action group. They run around, go to the gym and learn to use weapons which are legal under Indian law. As it goes with self-defense of any kind, the goal of self defense is neither to pick fights with others nor to retaliate in an extra-judicial manner when someone hits buy but to maintain a deterrence posture which deters someone else from picking fights with you in the first place.

It's the same point which @Kshatriya87 and @FRYCRY and @OneGrimPilgrim have been trying to drive across with great patience to your naive, and apparently deliberate misgivings about everyone who doesn't agree with your lopsided opinions. None of us here would want the BD or any other group to transgress the law, and if they do, they should be punished according to law, based on the merits of their individual offences, and not tarred by gross generalizations merely by innuendo and ideological insinuation.

Also, let me point to the very obvious irony of a person whose comments are riddled with consistent spelling errors taking the liberty to repeatedly refer to everyone else as 'a low IQ retard'. It seems the purchase of a new mirror is in order.
where did i implied that you were justifying riot so much for your high comprehension skill...i merely mentioned that answer to riot is not a riot either by muslim or hindu ,if someone burn someone you dont go & burn the culprit you go to police & let law take its own course thats the rule of this country not starting killing & raping women..i am sorry to say thats exactly what BD goons did in 2002 & countless others & i pity..you could only understand grammatical error in my post not the content
 

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