Babri Verdict: Verdict out. Land to be divided in three

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by ejazr, Sep 18, 2010.

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  1. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    India first, mandir, masjid later: Religious leaders | TwoCircles.net

    By TCN Staff Reporter,
    [​IMG]

    Lucknow: True to Indian culture, several prominent hindu seers and muslim clerics joined hands on Thursday pledging to maintain peace and brotherhood in wake of court's judgment over Ayodhya issue. The religious gururs in one voice proclaimed 'India First' during a press meet organised by muslim group Momin Conference in Lucknow Thursday.

    "The first priority is our country, if it remains there can be many more mandir and masjid," said the gurus including Naib Imam Aishbagh Eidgah, Maulana Khalid Rasheed Farangi Mahli, Imam-e-Juma and shia cleric Maulana Kalbe Jawwad, Prdhan Pujari, Ram Janam Bhoomi, Acharya Satyendra Das Ji Maharaj, Mahnat of Shri Ram Janki Ghat Bada Sthan, Ayodhya Janmayjay Sharan Ji and Swami Ganeshacharya Ji Maharaj of Nasik beside state president of Momin Conference, Haji Mohd Raees Ansari.

    The religious gurus of both communities in one voice appealed for maintaining communal harmony and peace in the country. They also urged for respecting the court's decision and maintaining law and order. "Our country has a composite culture and it should be maintained at all costs. The secular fabric of the nation has to be preserved at all costs," said Acharaya Satyendra. Farangi Mahli too joined him and appealed to both the communities for respecting the judgment and maintaining peace in the country.

    Maulana Jawwad stated that human values are more important and it is our duty that our neighbours are safe during crisis. Swami Ganeshacharaya Ji opined that several religions have co-existed in this country in the past and they will remain to do in coming years. "No religion teaches hatred and bloodshed and we appeal to people of all faith for maintaining brotherhood during this testing time," he said.
     
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  3. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    iNDIA AND MANDIR,Gurudwara go hand in hand where masjid and churches and all other religion are most welcome provided they do not have a hidden agenda....
     
  4. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    one hopes the sanity prevails post the babri masjid verdit gets announced, sure mandir, masjid et al come after the nation, and hope that is a message everyone understands without any bias!

    congress and bsp look very nervous to me.
     
  5. Soham

    Soham DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    Its heartening to see such moves. I hope similar sentiments prevail when the verdict is declared, especially at a time when India is under immense international limelight.
     
  6. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    why such nervousness its plain simple Ayodhya is an important place in Hinduism if some self proclaimed muslim "leaders" wants us to respect their feelings but should this respect be 1 sided.the political correctness is getting absurd
     
  7. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    What if there is 'immense international limelight'? How does that change anything? And what will India get out of this 'immense international limelight'?

    India must manage its internal affairs as it pleases and must not care for the views of others because others do as they please without caring for our opinion. It seems like a 'log kya kahenge' syndrome...
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Below is what i have written elsewhere on this forum to a close group giving my thoughts. Will just reproduce it here since this thread has come up

    Anyone else having a bad feeling about 24th?? I do hope mischief mongers stay home. All political parties so far have been cautious in their reactions. But we never know who will do what. Such a sensitive matter. Hope better sense prevails. Hope there is a last minute out of court settlement. I would just hope that the people claiming to be reps of muslims of india in the interests of national peace, unity and integrity let go of the claim to the janmabhoomi land and forget what is past. This would create tremendous goodwill at a time when muslims are getting all the bad ratings all over the world. Regardless of what the fact is whether is actual land or not, just respecting the sentiments of Hindus, the muslim board should embrace their counterparts and shake hands. It will bring in a new era of communal harmony and peace in this country.

    Adding to the above,
    If something like this was to happen, all the communal parties which i would say are all parties including Congress,BJP and others who have milked this issue and the past and likely to milk it in the future, they are sure to get completely irrelevant to their respective vote banks. In one such move, India would be on its way to an inclusive growth.
    Mosque can be built somewhere there itself and i am sure the very Hindu organizations that tore down the mosque will come up and help make one. Its an historic opportunity that should be grabbed. ALAS!! Politics gets the better of national interests and i dont know if someone will make a move to take such a step.
     
  9. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Congress is projecting nervousness but I am not sure whether its genuine. I mean Congress is a powerful party with many strings at its command. IMHO, Congress could have easily delayed this verdict for another 10 days. And since a judge in that bench will retire within 10 days, the bench will have to be reconstituted and the entire judicial procedure would commence again. And obviously our judiciary works under no deadlines, so the verdict could have taken another 10-20 yrs...
    But all that has not happened. Of late, Congress has tried to implement several of its pet projects like dilution of Army's act to dilute India's position in Kashmir, creation of smaller states by breaking up key states to render the regional leaders powerless against central command, implement women's bill, nuclear liability bill and now this verdict. But another point is that whenever the things got too hot, congress has backpeddled to save its image. Of course, the damage was already done. Just look at Kashmir...
     
  10. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Infact, I would say the good will generated from such a move would be so tremendous that anyone saying anything remotely against the muslims would lose their political fortune. Overnight, muslims of India would have gained an international repute. IMHO, the effects of such a policy change would be beyond India. At a time when there is a raging debate in the world especially west about Islam and its effects on their society, this gesture would go a long way to help muslims restore their image world wide.
     
  11. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    > Religious leaders proclaiming India first < Joke of the day.

    I have a feeling this verdict will piss off both communities -> No masjid, No mandir.
     
  12. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    quite possible, i for one dont understand the legal nuances as well, but the other day when ambika soni was talking to media did sound like that and seemed it was a concerted effort on part o congress to preempt any violence, but then seriously cant believe these political parties.

    there are two things as i see happens.

    1 there are the bihar elections and nitish will be very vary of what the bjp will be upto. i doubt for now they will do anything drastic till the time nitish kumar goes ahead with the alliance and just in case he breaks it off then cant say anything for sure. also to factor in is that if trouble happens bjp like in 92-93 could have all their state govts sacked which when they are on a downward spiral will be a disaster for them.

    2 the other thing is babri changed the fortunes of bjp nation wide so may be there might be a thinking that history might repeat and this might be an opportunity for them in disguise.

    not sure what to make of all this but in all this i am sure bombay will be the city to look out for, where does raj thackeray stand on all this?
     
  13. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    But BJP by now ought to realise that the Saffron Wave of the early 90s is finished. If it wants to be a big national party it has to have a more inclusive agenda, esp in light of the rise of the regional and marginal parties.

    This verdict could be the proverbially straw, that will break the camel's back, for the BJP. Will the verdict lead to a more hardline Hindutva grip at the top or a more liberal secular leadership at the top ?

    I have a hunch the public and political party responses will be lukewarm; which will force the right wingers to needlessly stir up passions and drum up massive demonstrations, just to gain attention and showcase their relevance.
     
  14. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    TR,
    yep, there are two ways. BJP could be walled in or BJP could have winds in its wings. Congress wants us to believe that they fear the communal BJP. BJP on their part are tight-lipped. Perhaps they scent an opportunity but dont want to squander it by being hasty. Polarisation of politics benefits both Congress and BJP. The losers will parties like Nitesh, Laloo, Maya...etc.

    To me there is another angle, if the verdict incites Hindus sufficiently and BJP positions itself as the only sympathiser of Hindus in the political spectrum, then BJP may not need Nitesh in Bihar. And it will be revival of BJP in places like UP, Maharashtra, Rajasthan and Delhi and partial revival in states like AP, and TN.

    From Congress POV, they will try and scare electorate by showing a 'communal BJP' or 'radical Hindu' image and try to position themselves as the only protector of 'secularism'. Thereby unsettling the minorities and modern day Indians wanting development. They will argue that BJP and its politics is an impediment to development and only congress can deliver 'inclusive development'.

    Therefore, I see both Congress and BJP having gains. But the turn of events in a volatile environment are quite unpredictable.
     
  15. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    Nothings gonna happen, trust me. Other than a bunch of old folks ranting on, no one else bothers much if a temple or mosque is built. But, I for one, If I was heading the Muslims, will let the Sants build a Temple there, If The Following are met in an out of court settlement!

    1000 Crore Rupees, To be Used to reparitate the lives of those muslim who were affected in the aftermath of the demolition. Now You may ask what about the Hindus affected? Well, the Sants and VHP should take care of that, as they are the ones behind the act.

    Written and Legalised documents stating that, no other mosque, be it anywhere will be laid claim too

    A 1000 Acre Land, with Infrastructure for a Super University, with the costs and upkeep borne by the People behind the Demolition, at another Site, and the notable thing for this University is that, The Education will be free for all, right from Grade 1 to PG regardless of Caste or Religion

    If this is done, Then I would be fine. But Without something similar to this, What gurantee is there that, tomorrow another temple is asked to be built over another mosque, by the Same Political Faction, not out of Love for God, but For Political Gains????? I am sure they would do this again, unless they are shown, how costly it would be.
     
  16. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    IMHO, BJP without nationalism or hindutva, BJP is just another shadow of Congress. Not much difference. So, if BJP gives up its nationalism or hindutva or 'communal card' for greater national role, then it would be the end of BJP in long term(20yrs from now). On the contrary, if BJP pursues its ideology then even if there are immediate loses, they will gain sufficiently in the future. So, BJP requires leaders who can work selflessly without regard for immediate gains. Of course, whether the present leadership of BJP can do that or not is anybody's guess.

    To give an analogy: If congress had given up its ideology in the British Era, then Congress could have enjoyed greater benefits but that would have finished Congress.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  17. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Paaji as I said it was the demolition that changed the fortunes of the bjp so quit likely a thinking prevails that it might repeat it self and change their fortunes yet again, also they might be thinking that distancing it self from the ram temple issue has only brought them the loss in support, then there is illiteracy and unemployment which remain rampant in India and with that people still very easily swayed by emotions so you never know what future might have in store.
     
  18. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    I would say all the above demands and much more could be met but one more bargain. Let all those grand temples that are very reverential to Hindus to handed back to Hindus. Major temple place in holy places like Ayodhya, Dwaraka, Kashi,....etc should be handed over to the Hindus.

    Then, instead of 1000 crores, 2000 crores can be given. Instead of 1000 acre land, 2000 acres of land can be given. A great university can be built with the cost to those behind the demolition.

    If such an offer is made from the muslim leaders but rejected by the right wing, then the right wing would lose face and trust. But has such offer been ever made?
     
  19. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    A slight nit-pick: Literacy and employment cannot change emotions, faith and sentiments. To portray those that want a mandhir or masjid as illiterate or unemployed or otherwise frustrated with life is, IMHO, unfair characterisation. Agree with the rest.
     
  20. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    Johnee, The Offer can only be made, if the Sants and Other Organistaions promise in letter with legal backing that, the Babri Masjid is one of a kind incident, and they wont lay claim to any other Mosque Areas, be it anywhere! Thats the cornerstone of the formula!

    Even if such an offer was made, I dont think the organisations behind it will shell out money and solve it, coz then, the Issue is Closed forever, and they wont have anything to harp on! To Prolong the issue and create tension is in their interests!
     
  21. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    I dont want to derail the thread but I think Kind of logics and demands that you have put in are somewhat outrageous. Till now all posters were talking about religious harmony and I appreciate it and suddenly you come and I am sure thread will be derailed .

    If you want compensation for something that happened in past then first of all you will have to go to hell. Get hold of Aurangzeb and ask for compensation of all religious sins that he did. all people he forced to convert and temples he demolished.You cannot do that so rather that ranting about what happned in past try to look to the future . No one is perfect in this country and fingers can be raised to everyone .

    Hope better sense prevails and people are not misguided by religious fanatics.
     
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