Aviation minister nudges AI to take a tough stand on strike

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by Ray, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The strike is well over the 48[SUP]th[/SUP] day.

    It has put a whole lot of passengers to great inconvenience and allowed other airlines to manipulate fares to make a killing.

    It has tarnished the image of India, it being a national carrier.

    Are the pilots justified in their demands?

    Are the pilots justified for going on strike?

    Is the Govt and the Minister correct in taking the stand the Govt and the Minister has taken?

    If the Govt blinks, is there any guarantee that the pilots will not go another strike another day as they have been doing over the years and the Govt blinking first every time?

    I heard the Minister on TV that the Air India pilots are the highest paid pilots in the world and this could not be refuted by the representative of the Indian Pilots Guild on that show.
     
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  3. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    I wonder why people are still buying AI tickets. There bookings should have dried up after 15 days of strike!!

    Common people, if GoI does not want to close AI, then you should send it down the drain by choosing others.
     
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  4. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Personally, I would not use AI if unless there is no other choice. What about those cases, where only AI tickets are available?
     
  5. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    If there is no option, then its just the AI way. But you should hedge well against the risk of cancellation!
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It is true that closing down would be a good answer.

    However, it is also time to teach these chaps you cannot hold the country to ransom.

    Ajit Singh said that the pilots should return to work and the AI management would then look into their grievances and take them on re-negotiated terms.

    I am not too sure, but to me it appeared during the TV debate that these chaps have been sacked since they have disregarded the Court orders too!
     
  7. lcatejas

    lcatejas Regular Member

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    Don't take though action from mouth its time to action .... .. strike to mazak ho gaya hai india me ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2012
  8. aeroblogger

    aeroblogger Regular Member

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    Aha! My topic :)
    (I'm an aviation journalist)

    The effect of the strike has been minimal to anybody outside AI and its immediate extranet.
    Somewhat. The pilots had some legitimate grievances (and some not-so-legitimate ones). They went on strike assuming it would be the same as the past - management would talk tough for a few days, then talks would occur, and everybody would end up happy (except for the taxpayer I suppose). This time, that didn't happen. They didn't have their act together until they realized that this wasn't going to happen, and by then it was too late. They lost the PR game. The aam aadmi doesn't support the IPG at all, because they don't understand why the IPG is on strike. And they don't want to understand why the IPG is on strike.

    Not really. It is the Minister's job to get this dispute settled. It is the management's job to act tough and keep costs down. Whether the minister is doing the "right thing" or not is a topic for a very long discussion - it's not very clear cut. But I think everybody is "right" to some extent (pilots, management, minister, etc), but everyone is also "wrong" to some extent as well.
    No. But if the government doesn't blink, there is still no guarantee. Until the management inspires confidence of the employees, strikes will continue happening.
    It is not completely accurate. The highest seniority pilots are indeed some of the highest paid pilots in the world. The younger, lower seniority captains and first officers are paid slightly less than average for an IATA longhaul operator.

    Nobody is booking AI for international routes (which this strike affects). This is because AI has itself closed all booking.

    I personally love AI as a passenger (although I hate it as a taxpayer). No matter how incompetent, corrupt, *insert negative quality*, etc. management is, the airline is great for the passenger. The product is really good, it is reasonably reliable compared to its domestic competitors, and prices are fair.

    On domestic legs, AI is always my first choice. Internationally, there is more competition (so more choice), and I fly AI much less often.

    AI's cancellation rate pre-strike was just fine. Now that operations have stabilized after the strike, the cancellation rate has fallen again.
    Not really. It would be devastating in the short run to our country's aviation system, which would have far reaching effects in the economy. And politicians all run for the short term, not the long term good of the country.

    Regardless, AI is currently in the midst of a (well designed) restructuring package. Once that is over, AI will operationally be the best carrier in India, assuming the competition don't pull off miracles. Industrial relations are another story, but those will be dealt with eventually too. The current state of the airline simply isn't sustainable.
    I wouldn't be so quick to condemn them. The strike was their last resort - they tried to get their grievances sorted out in a variety of different ways earlier.
    That is not going to happen. No self-respecting union member would cross a picket line without their fellow staff reinstated. It is idiotic to expect this.

    AI pilots' stand isn't any more reasonable though. There needs to be compromise somewhere.
    AI pilots have disregarded the court order to return to work. AI management have disregarded the court order to conduct talks and sort out grievances before sacking more pilots.

    Neither side is "innocent."
     
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  9. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    I have first hand experience with AI.

    And trust me, It was not good. NO no no no no. Not good at all.:denied:

    The Service inside was the worst I ever had. The Air Hostess(who was atleast 50 BTW) looked as if she was going to kill me whenever I asked for water or snacks:tsk:

    Personally, I want keep AI in a museum:fyeah:
     
  10. aeroblogger

    aeroblogger Regular Member

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    Well, then we've had very different experiences. I've flown AI 38 times in the last 6 months (mostly domestic), including once this morning. In those 38 times, I have had a grand total of 3 poor experiences directly caused by the airline (all 3 times, the problem was rude/uncommunicative staff).

    I was counting this morning for an article I'm working on - compared to the 38 AI segments (3 bad experiences), I have had 8 Spicejet flights (2 bad experiences), 3 IndiGo flights (1 bad experience), 2 Jet Airways flights (1 bad experience), 2 JetLite flights (2 bad experiences), and 1 Kingfisher flight (bad experience). AI's product blows all of these airlines out of the air anyway. Mind you, my personal experience is hardly a drop in the bucket for the total airline system, so my experience might very well be fluke. However, a clear pattern has emerged over the years of my flying AI - they are as good as it gets in Indian aviation.

    I also fail to see what is wrong with having older flight attendants. They are on board for your safety, not to be gawked at :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  11. lcatejas

    lcatejas Regular Member

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    The best way is ... govt should totally shut down the headache (AI) ...:cool2:
     
  12. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Yeah well the difference is, I can express my views on their management via a feedback to these Private companies in case if I found these rude behaviors.

    is that so with AI. No one will give two hoots about what some customer complains. True or not?

    Yeah well there is a reason Air hostesses are Hot:flame:. But, the thing is even at the age of 50+ they lacked the empathy they are supposed to show. That was my point, not their attractiveness. Though I wont complain if they had younger Air Hostesses:heh:
     
  13. aeroblogger

    aeroblogger Regular Member

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    Not quite true. Whenever I send a complaint, I get a reply within a week or 2 from customer service department...

    Maybe it is because I have elite status though - if I wasn't a Golden Edge member, maybe they wouldn't give a shit.

    Then again, the private airlines aren't much better - I sent complaint to Jet Airways about my poor experience. Let me quote the reply:
    Does that look like they care about my complaint?

    Trying to explain seems to be futile, so I'll just let you know about the good news: AI recently hired about 80 ex-Kingfisher Airlines Flight Attendants to replace retirees. You'll have some better luck finding hot ones now. :rolleyes:
     
  14. aeroblogger

    aeroblogger Regular Member

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    That is an idiotic idea. If AI stopped operating tomorrow, the economic shockwave would be horrible.

    A phased shutdown over a long period of time is an idea, but restructuring and privatization would be far better.
     
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  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Give it back to Tata.
     
  16. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    You are not the only one though.

    I have flown on IA, then government owned, and also on Alliance Air, and I must say, the service I received does not warrant any negative attribute. Of course, my choosing IA or AA wasn't motivated by my desire to ogle at hot lasses; it was motivated by my desire for quick transport and the lack of reservation availability with the Indian Railways.

    Oh, BTW, when will domestic carriers, who have tied up with international carriers and code share with international flights start accepting US dollars for in-flight meals? Travelling and waiting for more than 10 hours, with dollar bills in your pocket, and dumping cup after cup of water into your stomach because you cannot buy any food, isn't exactly a great experience.

    Maddy, do please keep AI in the museum, and while you are at it, do tag along a few of these inept private carriers as well.
     
  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I guess there should be some electoral reforms, both for AI and IR, whereby, any increase in prices, or layoff by the employer , does not automatically lead to the people voting against the government. How does one achieve this? Why should the government be held at ransom for doing what is necessary?
     
  18. aeroblogger

    aeroblogger Regular Member

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    :rolleyes:

    And it has only gotten better - since the merger, PTVs have been introduced, catering has been revamped, and service is the best its been in over a decade.

    Since the merger, losses have also spiraled. But that's a different discussion, and doesn't take away the enjoyment from the passenger point of view ;)

    That's another advantage of flying with AI - no fees for anything :)

    This is a very serious problem at most PSUs, which definitely needs to be addressed. The aviation minister is not the person who should be dealing with it
     
  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Crippled Kingfisher sees flight of engineers

    Mumbai, Jun 26 (PTI): About 80 engineers have quit beleaguered Kingfisher Airlines during the past four months due to non-payment of salaries by the near-bankrupt carrier, sources said.

    “Some 60-80 engineers have already quit the carrier in the last 4-5 months, as they could not sustain non-payment of salaries. And more are planning to do so,” airline sources told PTI here.

    Some more engineers are in the process of bidding good-bye to the carrier, they said, adding, “if the trend continues, the airline may face severe shortage of engineers.”

    Also, around 200 engineers reported sick in April this year protesting delay in salaries.

    Crippled Kingfisher sees flight of engineers
     
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Then who?

    The political appointees on the board who are bureaucrats?
     
  21. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Absolutely, and I have always wondered how is it that people tend to talk so highly about a lot of these private airlines when they are indeed crappy in many ways than one when compared to AI. I have been rather amazed with the way the staff has improved in their interactions right from ground to on-board, some of these people, much older and are outright courteous, its been some transformation.

    Anyways, when one is doing a low cost/no-frill airline one doesn't really bother what's on offer, at least I don't.

    I would for one definitely say, AI is one of the better airlines in the domestic circuit.
     

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