Australian U turn on Uranium?

[nrj]

Without doubt, Indo-US strategic dialogue is paying in our favor now. Indian rise will be unchallenged if foreign ministry continues its strong lobby on international level for another 4-5yrs while shooting down sino-pak attempts to disrupt relation between New Delhi-W DC.

Coming year should see India included in MTCR & other Oz-US group.

Also today I hear that US will be deploying ready force of 2500 marines in Australia. This is single biggest move in after WWII when it comes to Aus base AFAIK.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said early this month that the US-Australian alliance had been transformed from "an Asia-Pacific alliance to an Indo-Pacific alliance".

Sums up everything. Most probably Gillard was told that, either you can do it or we'll make opposition to do so when they takeover power.

 

[sky]

The best thing about the possibility of uranium sales to India will be the envy of pakistan. trying to keep up with India will be there main objective.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The best thing about the possibility of uranium sales to India will be the envy of pakistan. trying to keep up with India will be there main objective.

This is a good point China can build reactors for Pakistan but how will they get uranium?? When China also imports uranium from Australia??

 

[trackwhack]

This is a good point China can build reactors for Pakistan but how will they get uranium?? When China also imports uranium from Australia??

The answer is that China, being one the the 'Legal' nuclear weapons powers does not need to open any of its facilities to IAEA, does not need to tell anyone what its using the imported ore for, does not require anything.

Thats why the NPT is such a sick regime, the P5 can do what they please. China can buy uranium for a dollar a pound and sell it to Pakistan at 10 dollars a pound and no one will know.

Basically the P5 can do what they want and everyone else is supposed to do what they say. A$$holes!!

Why do you think we buy reactors from Russia and France? Not because we cant build these reactors ourselves, but because it comes with fuel guarantee. France does not have a gram of uranium ore. It buys from where ever it wishes to. So the uranium for the proposed Jaitapur plant is going to come from France. We dont have to worry about fuel sustainability there.
Its such a biased shitty treaty, I cant figure why everyone signed it!!! Thank god we did not, but the nuclear deal kind of compromised our stand on it a little bit.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

NPT is setup to be a monopoly. But the point you made earlier about Chinese diversion of uranium has been going on for decades.


Global Security Newswire - Print_Friendly -

Australia Confident Uranium Would Not Reach Pakistan, Official Says

How China gifted 50kg uranium for two bombs to Pakistan - Times Of India

How China gifted 50kg uranium for two bombs to Pakistan

 

[trackwhack]

NPT is setup to be a monopoly. But the point you made earlier about Chinese diversion of uranium has been going on for decades.


Global Security Newswire - Print_Friendly -

Australia Confident Uranium Would Not Reach Pakistan, Official Says

How China gifted 50kg uranium for two bombs to Pakistan - Times Of India

How China gifted 50kg uranium for two bombs to Pakistan

Of course the rotten bastards have been doing this. Also where do you think Israel got enough fissile material to build 200 warheads??? Thats right 200 warheads!

Independent India's greatest achievement in its 60 odd year history was showing the NPT a finger and undermining its relevance. But the fact that we have to open our nuclear facilities to IAEA is very demeaning and as an Indian I felt really let down when the 123 was signed. I know it came with other gains and I understand the sacrifice we had to make to get enough uranium to convert to reactor grade plutonium so that we can achieve nuclear self sufficiency some day, but it still was a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Of course the rotten bastards have been doing this. Also where do you think Israel got enough fissile material to build 200 warheads??? Thats right 200 warheads!

Independent India's greatest achievement in its 60 odd year history was showing the NPT a finger and undermining its relevance. But the fact that we have to open our nuclear facilities to IAEA is very demeaning and as an Indian I felt really let down when the 123 was signed. I know it came with other gains and I understand the sacrifice we had to make to get enough uranium to convert to reactor grade plutonium so that we can achieve nuclear self sufficiency some day, but it still was a bitter pill to swallow.

once the thorium cycle is in place we will only need about 10% uranium to seed the cycle. If we can mine this 10% indigenously and use our indigenous thorium we will be 100% self sufficient and the NPT will have no impact on India.

 

[sukhish]

Of course the rotten bastards have been doing this. Also where do you think Israel got enough fissile material to build 200 warheads??? Thats right 200 warheads!

Independent India's greatest achievement in its 60 odd year history was showing the NPT a finger and undermining its relevance. But the fact that we have to open our nuclear facilities to IAEA is very demeaning and as an Indian I felt really let down when the 123 was signed. I know it came with other gains and I understand the sacrifice we had to make to get enough uranium to convert to reactor grade plutonium so that we can achieve nuclear self sufficiency some day, but it still was a bitter pill to swallow.

I have the same problem with the 123 agreement, all the nuclear reactors for which we import foriegn fuel would have to be put under IAEA safeguards. that just makes me sick. that's why I support the 100% the protests going on everywhere. these IAEA clauses have to be changed. I just can't live with these changes.

 

[trackwhack]

once the thorium cycle is in place we will only need about 10% uranium to seed the cycle. If we can mine this 10% indigenously and use our indigenous thorium we will be 100% self sufficient and the NPT will have no impact on India.

No, Lethal, its even better than that. Once the Fast breeders are in place, if all goes according to projections, by 2035 we wont need any more uranium at all. We can happily start converting our existing reactors to thorium reactors. U233 which is what Th 232 gets converted to can act as seed fuel to start new thorium installations. And if we start installing thorium breeder reactors (as planned), then thorium will be directly bred to U233 which will take care of all our needs for hundreds of years to come. We wont need a milligram of uranium after that.

The critical success factors are
1) Fast breeder reactor - uranium fuelled.
2) Fast breeder reactor - thorium fuelled to breed U 233
3) AHWR - thorium fuelled reactors

and later on Accelerator driven systems. If by 2030 we can have a few working reactors of each type, then there is no need to build a single coal fired plant ever. EVER!! Thats how much thorium we have.
Lets just hope that all of BARC's experimental studies and reactor designs are well thought and no surprises are in store.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I have the same problem with the 123 agreement, all the nuclear reactors for which we import foriegn fuel would have to be put under IAEA safeguards. that just makes me sick. that's why I support the 100% the protests going on everywhere. these IAEA clauses have to be changed. I just can't live with these changes.

123 agreement is not so bad. US has this agreement with all nations it does nuclear trade with. More info below

http://www.nti.org/e_research/source_docs/india/prime_minister_office/3.pdf

The biggest mistake MMS made in the US nuke agreement was not insisting on NSG membership.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

No, Lethal, its even better than that. Once the Fast breeders are in place, if all goes according to projections, by 2035 we wont need any more uranium at all. We can happily start converting our existing reactors to thorium reactors. U233 which is what Th 232 gets converted to can act as seed fuel to start new thorium installations. And if we start installing thorium breeder reactors (as planned), then thorium will be directly bred to U233 which will take care of all our needs for hundreds of years to come. We wont need a milligram of uranium after that.

The critical success factors are
1) Fast breeder reactor - uranium fuelled.
2) Fast breeder reactor - thorium fuelled to breed U 233
3) AHWR - thorium fuelled reactors

and later on Accelerator driven systems. If by 2030 we can have a few working reactors of each type, then there is no need to build a single coal fired plant ever. EVER!! Thats how much thorium we have.
Lets just hope that all of BARC's experimental studies and reactor designs are well thought and no surprises are in store.

So far I think point #1 and #3 have been achieved only #2 is missing??

 

[sukhish]

One good thing the BJP did was they literally put the liability so high that the western companies would find it very difficult to do business as far as nuclear reactors are concerned. I think at some point in future there will be negotiations on easing out these liability clauses in return for easing out the
IAEA safaguards to make compatible with NPT states.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

One good thing the BJP did was they literally put the liability so high that the western companies would find it very difficult to do business as far as nuclear reactors are concerned. I think at some point in future there will be negotiations on easing out these liability clauses in return for easing out the
IAEA safaguards to make compatible with NPT states.

BJP could have tested a MEGATON nuke at Pokran among the 5 it tested.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

The agenda of having a trilateral engagement between India-Australia–USA and India snubbing the move seems to have eventually paid off.

US did have to take a call on this and step in, china is coming across as too much of a headache for them.

Good, there is a price being attached by India to all such agendas. I am impressed!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

One good thing the BJP did was they literally put the liability so high that the western companies would find it very difficult to do business as far as nuclear reactors are concerned. I think at some point in future there will be negotiations on easing out these liability clauses in return for easing out the
IAEA safaguards to make compatible with NPT states.

India should have been more careful signing the Hyde act. This act is probably the one you are confusing the 123 agreement with? It has elements of NPT,FMCT and nuclear testing included in it.

 

[trackwhack]

So far I think point #1 and #3 have been achieved only #2 is missing??

Actually all have been achieved at an experimental stage.

1) Fast breeder test reactor has been functioning for more than 20 years. The PFBR in Kalpakkam was supposed to be commissioned by Dec 2011 but there are delays. Hopefully it is commissioned before Dec 12. This is the single biggest factor that will determine the success or failure of our nuclear ambitions. If this works without a hitch we are set. We have plans to build 300 Fast Breeder Reactors based on both uranium and Thorium bu 2050. Yes thats not a typo. 300 fast breeders.
2) Same as 1. If the PFBR works flawlessly, then the thorium FBR will also work flawlessly. Only the fuel and the reprocessing is different.
3) AHWR. This is actually the least important because even if the AHWR does not work, there are other approaches. We can either run all the U233 from the Fast breeders in regular PHWR's or PWR's or we can try alternate approaches like LFTR's Accelerator Driven systems or THTR's (Thorium High temperature reactors).

India's nuclear research span is so huge the West is shitting bricks right now looking at where we have managed to reach despite their NPT. If all our plans succeed, we will be the largest exporter of energy ever until Nuclear fusion can be mastered. I am talking about 10 times the energy equivalent of all the oil in the middle east. But thats the aim.

And we have shitheads like Jayalalitha who will stoop to such low levels in Koondakulam to gain political mileage.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Actually all have been achieved at an experimental stage.

1) Fast breeder test reactor has been functioning for more than 20 years. The PFBR in Kalpakkam was supposed to be commissioned by Dec 2011 but there are delays. Hopefully it is commissioned before Dec 12. This is the single biggest factor that will determine the success or failure of our nuclear ambitions. If this works without a hitch we are set. We have plans to build 300 Fast Breeder Reactors based on both uranium and Thorium bu 2050. Yes thats not a typo. 300 fast breeders.
2) Same as 1. If the PFBR works flawlessly, then the thorium FBR will also work flawlessly. Only the fuel and the reprocessing is different.
3) AHWR. This is actually the least important because even if the AHWR does not work, there are other approaches. We can either run all the U233 from the Fast breeders in regular PHWR's or PWR's or we can try alternate approaches like LFTR's Accelerator Driven systems or THTR's (Thorium High temperature reactors).

India's nuclear research span is so huge the West is shitting bricks right now looking at where we have managed to reach despite their NPT. If all our plans succeed, we will be the largest exporter of energy ever until Nuclear fusion can be mastered. I am talking about 10 times the energy equivalent of all the oil in the middle east. But that the aim.

And we have shitheads like Jayalalitha who will stoop to such low levels in Koondakulam to gain political mileage.

Many people do not realize India is also the largest Tritium/Heavy water producing country in the world. If India chooses it can make Hydrogen bombs by the thousands.

old article
http://www.ccnr.org/india_tritium.html
TRITIUM BREAKTHROUGH BRINGS INDIA CLOSER TO AN H-BOMB ARSENAL

 

[trackwhack]

Many people do not realize India is also the largest Tritium/Heavy water producing country in the world. If India chooses it can make Hydrogen bombs by the thousands.

old article
Tritium from Power Plants gives India an H-bomb capability
TRITIUM BREAKTHROUGH BRINGS INDIA CLOSER TO AN H-BOMB ARSENAL

Yes, but the greens in Australia still think we need uranium to make dirty bombs. Clueless turdballs.

 

[sukhish]

India should have been more careful signing the Hyde act. This act is probably the one you are confusing the 123 agreement with? It has elements of NPT,FMCT and nuclear testing included in it.

lethalforce,
I'm not saying the Hyde act, I'm concerned about the IAEA safeguards. all nuclear reactors for which we import fuel would have to be put under IAEA safeguards. this one rally kills me. for example china buys fuel from australia, but doesn't open it's reactors for IAEA inspection. all they have to do is send report to the IAEA every six months or so to indicate how much they imported and that's just it. the way we have put all the reactors under IAEA safeguards really bothers me alot. BJP had a point and no wonder they crying foul about this. But one good think is the liability clause could become a bargaining chip in future nuclear discussions.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

lethalforce,
I'm not saying the Hyde act, I'm concerned about the IAEA safeguards. all nuclear reactors for which we import fuel would have to be put under IAEA safeguards. this one rally kills me. for example china buys fuel from australia, but doesn't open it's reactors for IAEA inspection. all they have to do is send report to the IAEA every six months or so to indicate how much they imported and that's just it. the way we have put all the reactors under IAEA safeguards really bothers me alot. BJP had a point and no wonder they crying foul about this. But one good think is the liability clause could become a bargaining chip in future nuclear discussions.

All the Fast breeder reactors are on the military side off limits to IAEA. Don't worry about a thing. This is the best part of the nuclear deal. Indigenous uranium goes to military reactors no accountability to anyone. Imported uranium goes to civilian reactors full accountability and accesibility to IAEA.