draugh39 4:09 PM on 18/12/2014
In a related matter there is another story out of Waco, Texas on the news right now. A few hour ago the TV meteorologist Patrick Crawford exchanged words with a man at the parking lot outside the TV station KCEN. That man then pulled out a handgun and fired several times at the TV meteorologist Crawford is undergoing surgery at a local hospital. The gunman is reported to be
"white, in his mid-30s, balding, and was wearing a dark hooded sweatshirt and dark jeans, authorities said. He's armed with a semi-automatic handgun"
I wonder if this guy had one of these "concealed carry permits" that Senator Leyonhjelm want people in Australia to be able to get. Texas was after all the place that Senetor Leyonhjelm want Australia to be more like.
It's not that we have had a problem with unprovoked "coward-punches" here in Oz right?
Think how much *safer* we all feel knowing that EVERYONE we meet can be carrying a concealed firearm instead...
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Score: -1 johnnoh 3:56 PM on 18/12/2014
Senator Leyonhjelm, in Australia, we have no need to have the right to bear arms. Haven't 94 school children been killed in the USA this year in seiges or random shootings by gun wielding maniacs. I think you'll find most, if not all, of those killers were in possession of a firearms licence, applicable to those weapons. Please don't patronise us. Mainly speaking, the general public has no need to own a firearm, the exceptions, that I can see, are farmers who may need to to put down animals.
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Score: -1 sticksnstones 3:33 PM on 18/12/2014
I seldom agree with John Howard about anything, but he is absolutely right when he says: "It is a matter of basic logic that the more guns we have in society, the greater the opportunity for mass murder." People from all points of the political compass should think clearly and soberly before going down the blood drenched path of a society awash with lethal weapons. I don't want to live in a country that gradually allows itself to resemble a war zone, an armed camp, or anarchistic free for all where only the individual with the most fire power prevails!
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Score: 1 jamesff86 3:20 PM on 18/12/2014
Gotta say I somewhat agree. In the case of the siege I think it would have been a bad idea if any of the victims were to attack the crazy guy with the gun (that's all he was, after all) since there was a threat of bombs. BUT, I've always been a firm believer that if someone tries to rob, stab, rape or kill you you should be able to properly defend yourself. Chances are they have a weapon, why not level the playing field? A few harsh words won't deter a junkie with a knife on you. I'm not talking about being able to walk around carrying an assault rifle "for protection," but being allowed to carry any of the things mentioned in the article - pepper spray, knives etc. And I don't think anyone is suggesting that gun laws are relaxed, but I don't see a problem with people who are already able to legally buy them to go through a course or something involving situations where using one for self defense applies and get a licence for concealed carry. Just my two cents.
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Score: -1 fearlessfred 3:20 PM on 18/12/2014
He would make a great USA Senator.
Let's deport him immediately.
The USA is not a role model for the world, and it is one country I never have and never would visit.
There are still too many guns in Australia.
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Score: 0 masonite 2:55 PM on 18/12/2014
"What happened in that cafe would have been most unlikely to have occurred in Florida, Texas, or Vermont, or Alaska in America."
O cool! I'm going to move to America now, where there's no chance of me being shot by a gunman! Yippee!
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Score: 5 nuggett08 2:52 PM on 18/12/2014
I have a gun licence and have jumped through all the hoops to have it. I have followed all laws and pay the money to keep it current. Any thoughts of making licences any stricter will be total stupidity. What it will do is drive law abiding citizens to simply give up trying to do the right thing due to the process being ridiculous. This in turn will create an underground culture of buying and selling. Presently it is mainly criminals that indulge in blackmarket purchases however keep changing the goal posts and you will shoot yourself in the foot metaphorically speaking. I know for a fact that there is massive amounts of easily accessible illegal firearms if you know where to look. Punish the criminals not everyone.
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Score: 1 pragmatist2014 2:30 PM on 18/12/2014
Is it 1st of April?
Surely he has to be having a lend of us.
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Score: 1 draugh39 2:25 PM on 18/12/2014
So the senator argues that there wouldn't be siege (like the one we have witnessed) in a place like Texas as they have the right to carry weapons including concealed ones. The Senator is old enough so that he should remember a rather infamous siege that took place in Texas in a place called Waco. That siege netted a total of 76 dead so in a way he is right that the siege we have seen here in Sydney is in no way like the ones seen in Texas...
And in regards to other mass-shootings in Texas of late we have The Fort Hood shooting in April this year; the shootings in Spring, Texas in July this year and the Austin shooting rampage in November this year - just to mention 3 that was in the news here in Australia.
The question is, do we really want an Australian equivalent to the Waco siege, and the other massacres that happened, just this year, in Texas?
(According to senator Leyonhjelm's comments above that appears to be an affirmative....)
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Score: 2 fishandchips 2:08 PM on 18/12/2014
If this nation is to become like the USA, then I'll find somewhere else. I wonder how many more would have died in the cross fire. I am shocked to write it, but it could have been worse.
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Score: 1 bones ii 1:55 PM on 18/12/2014
In regards to what the senator has said, I'm with Dog Tags, carrying a firearm in your day to day life would actually restrict your freedom, its a massive responsibility and burden which has to be constantly at the forefront of your mind and needs to be taken into account with everything you do.
I really enjoy target shooting and I strongly believe that gun ownership for sporting purposes has a legitimate place in our society, as long as it is properly regulated, restricted and policed. I certainly do not want to see unregulated and unrestricted ownership, it is and should remain a privilege and not a right. I think that our current laws a pretty good, we will have to see what comes to light with the investigation into this matter to see how the system failed. As far as I know his history should have meant that he couldn't hold a licence or legally procure a firearm - especially a shortened shotgun which is a prohibited weapon.
To the Anti/Ban Gun people, I can understand the sentiment, but banning all firearms will have a negligible affect on gun related crime or crime in general. Shooting is a legitimate sport which many people safely participate in, and we do quite well in international competitions too. Our gun culture is very different to the US and I think if you better knew the Australian experience, you would be a lot more comfortable with this in our society.
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Score: 4 really_questionmark 1:34 PM on 18/12/2014
With 12,004 deaths from firearms in 2014 alone the USA is the 'nation of victims', not Australia!
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Score: 3 artisand 1:31 PM on 18/12/2014
Does one have to be a certified nutter to become a US senator. This is the same muddled-headed thinking that thinks 'the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is for a good guy to have a gun'. The problem then is 'who decides who is the bad guy and who is the good guy'??
We may have our weaknesses but we don't have too many people shooting up schools with automatic weapons.
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Score: 3 hillsbody 1:24 PM on 18/12/2014
Noooooo! Please do not even suggest this a solution. It would create way more problems than YOU think it would solve.
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Score: 4 mbk0010 1:15 PM on 18/12/2014
As much as I like Leyonhjelm for having conviction in his stance on personal rights, I think he's misguided here.
Think about it, the hostages in this case are scared, they're jittery and you want to give them guns? It would cause more chaos. Please, leave high-risk situations like this to trained professionals, less chance of mistakes. Guns are never the answer.
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Score: 5 unbe kannt 1:04 PM on 18/12/2014
Guns are totally awesome at stopping other people with guns. That's why everybody in the US carries a gun, and there are never any sieges, and nobody ever gets shot. Oh, wait...
Seems like the real victim here is you, Senator. You're a victim of irrational fear. How about you ask your staffers to add some cement to your morning coffee so you can HTFU?
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Score: 5 lordmite 12:47 PM on 18/12/2014
By arming the "victims" you do not solve the problem. You great greater conflict. Surely the countries law enforcement agencies are more than capable of resolving situations like the Lindt Café siege without resorting to an American style "right to carry arms" for all and ending in the massacres that occur in the U.S.A.
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Score: 3 zzyplza 12:41 PM on 18/12/2014
I just watched The Equalizer, now read this:
Carrying a Gun Wouldn't Necessarily Get You Out of a Shooting - ABC News
Life is not like the movies. I was surprised when I read this but I should not have been, surely?
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Score: 3 frog01 12:37 PM on 18/12/2014
Senator David, I lived in the U.S. for almost thirty years and was continually surrounded by the "gun culture" and have a liking for all types and calibers of firearms, and, I, too, have to say I think you are drastically wrong with your thoughts on this subject.
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Score: 5 commentabc 12:27 PM on 18/12/2014
Irrespective of how baffling and simplistic Senator Leyonhjelm's comments are, the statement that the Lindt cafe tragedy would have been most unlikely to happen in Switzerland is factually inaccurate. Even prefaced by the word "perhaps". Switzerland has strict gun laws and no one in that country would think of questioning them - except to make them stricter. While there is a high rate of gun ownership in Switzerland, this is only as a result of the compulsory military training of Swiss citizens, whose use of their weapon is strictly regulated, and who have no right to use their weapon for private purposes.
Australia a 'nation of victims', deadly Sydney siege unlikely in Texas, says pro-gun senator Leyonhjelm - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)