Aussies fear threat of war with China

[SHASH2K2]

Australia sees India same as it sees China, Oz were the first to comment or oppose of India getting Akulla-II and Tu-22M3's, they fear of India as same they fear of China, so they help Pak in all cases to counter India. so dont expect any Oz-India alliance.....

you forgot the fact that Its USA which still has significant influence over OZ policies. whether willingly or not they will have to cooperate with India. Sale of uranium is different issue as it has its own internal law about sales of Uranium.

 

[bhramos]

I agree with most of what you said. I, however, was a bit surprised about Australia helping Pakistan. Could you cite some examples please? Thanks.

i mean OZ is more positive towards Pak then India.... recently Pak-Oz signed Defence co-op.
you can see more negatives about India in Oz forums, Oz thinks India is becoming a Super Power in Indian Ocean Region and can dominate Oz..

 

[AOE]

This is just all hype, and a ploy to increase defence spending and weapons procurement. Apparently, Indonesia is no longer an effective bogeyman for the Aussie Defence Forces.

Yeah especially since that bogeymans actions in East Timor speak louder than words. Poor ol' innocent Suharto being victimized by brutal, colonial, jackboot, fascist Australians who unreasonably tried to help the East Timorese rid themselves from the peaceful, non-genocidal Indonesians.

Sarcasm aside; I never bought into the theory that Indonesia would be suicidal enough to invade us, since we have a wall of thousands of kilometers of desert and tropics between most of the major cities and Indonesia, a US base at Pine Gap, and the fact that Indonesia is a part of ASEAN which focuses more on China.

On another point raised by LF; while it is true that we sell uranium and various minerals to the highest bidder, our relations with Japan, South Korea, and the US are stronger than the relations we have with China.

 

[nitesh]

Well, you are overestimating China. Just one India is enough to take on China.

Well, to an extent right, but we like that once the war breaks out, total annihilation of Commies is ensured, so those interested can join in the party

 

[Phenom]

i mean OZ is more positive towards Pak then India.... recently Pak-Oz signed Defence co-op.
you can see more negatives about India in Oz forums, Oz thinks India is becoming a Super Power in Indian Ocean Region and can dominate Oz..

There seems to be a lot of bad blood between Australians and Indian for no good reason. It started with the cricket controversy and has been going on since. IMO, it would be better in the long run to have Australia on our side rather than on the side of the Chinese.

 

[AOE]

There seems to be a lot of bad blood between Australians and Indian for no good reason. It started with the cricket controversy and has been going on since. IMO, it would be better in the long run to have Australia on our side rather than on the side of the Chinese.

That is unfortunate, but the truth. I'm a cricket fan myself, but I wouldn't use a bit of competitive sport to tar another group with the same brush. I sure hope there are Indians here who feel the same way.

Although this isn't to say that we like the Chinese a lot more.

 

[civfanatic]

Yeah especially since that bogeymans actions in East Timor speak louder than words. Poor ol' innocent Suharto being victimized by brutal, colonial, jackboot, fascist Australians who unreasonably tried to help the East Timorese rid themselves from the peaceful, non-genocidal Indonesians.

I'll assume you didn't understand the point, and ignore the rant.

All democratic nations need a "bogeyman" to justify defence spending, otherwise ignorant civilians would disband the military. For India, our bogeyman has long been Pakistan. For America, it was the Soviet Union, and now China. For Australia, it was Indonesia for a very long time. But the Indonesian military forces of today are a joke, and not even comparable to those during the Cold War (their air force today has a grand total of TEN modern fighters). Their military has shifted their complete attention to counter-insurgency in their own country, and their ability to fight an effective conventional war has substantially decreased as a consequence. In addition, Indonesia's relations with the West have increasingly improved since the end of the Cold War.

All this means that Indonesia is no longer an effective bogeyman for Australia, and a new one is needed. The best candidate is apparently China, since it is popular to fearmonger about the evil Commies, even though the chances of China invading or even threatening Australia are even more remote than Indonesia doing so.

 

[AOE]

I'll assume you didn't understand the point, and ignore the rant.

All democratic nations need a "bogeyman" to justify defence spending, otherwise ignorant civilians would disband the military. For India, our bogeyman has long been Pakistan. For America, it was the Soviet Union, and now China. For Australia, it was Indonesia for a very long time. But the Indonesian military forces of today are a joke, and not even comparable to those during the Cold War (their air force today has a grand total of TEN modern fighters). Their military has shifted their complete attention to counter-insurgency in their own country, and their ability to fight an effective conventional war has substantially decreased as a consequence. In addition, Indonesia's relations with the West have increasingly improved since the end of the Cold War.

All this means that Indonesia is no longer an effective bogeyman for Australia, and a new one is needed. The best candidate is apparently China, since it is popular to fearmonger about the evil Commies, even though the chances of China invading or even threatening Australia are even more remote than Indonesia doing so.

In reality I think you misunderstood my response (which was all in good humor, by the way), and I think Indonesia being targetted in this manner for a while was justifiable given their behavior in East Timor, but yes there was also the defense spending side of which I am already aware; I live here so I know the kinds of people who usually bang on about Indonesia invading us and I don't believe it will happen.

A Chinese invasion is also slim (I never said it wasn't), but only because they focus on enemies closer to home like the Taiwanese and Japanese, as well as the US presence. Right now our problem with China is the same that many other countries are having; their buying up of businesses, real estate, and agrictulture here, but it's a minor one in the greater scheme of things.

 

[niharjhatn]

There seems to be a lot of bad blood between Australians and Indian for no good reason. It started with the cricket controversy and has been going on since. IMO, it would be better in the long run to have Australia on our side rather than on the side of the Chinese.

We need their crap out of the ground, and thats about it. There ain't nothing else there. No point becoming lovey-dovey over it, just keep it to business.

China-Aus enjoy a great relationship due to migrants and the continual business deals (especially mining) being set up.

Australia will end up a colony of China in a few decades anyway.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

There seems to be a lot of bad blood between Australians and Indian for no good reason. It started with the cricket controversy and has been going on since. IMO, it would be better in the long run to have Australia on our side rather than on the side of the Chinese.

Rudd the Australian president spoke Chinese. Australia dropped out of the Australia-Japan-India-USA alliance proposed by Japan. Australia rejected uranium sales to India even after Bush nuke deal and continued sales to China even after nuclear proliferation to many countries.Australia choose China over India long ago let them live with their decision. There are other sources for resources like Canada.

 

[AOE]

Rudd the Australian president spoke Chinese. Australia dropped out of the Australia-Japan-India-USA alliance proposed by Japan. Australia rejected uranium sales to India even after Bush nuke deal and continued sales to China even after nuclear proliferation to many countries.Australia choose China over India long ago let them live with their decision. There are other sources for resources like Canada.

I hate to say it, but this is true. This is why I never really liked Rudd for moving closer to China in his Three Pillars foreign policy. I guess all I can say is I hope this changes in the future, but I wont hold my breath.

 

[GPM]

Australia cannot resist the Chinese without America. They are not a big military force. My hunch is that even Indonesia can overhelm them.

 

[no smoking]

I hate to say it, but this is true. This is why I never really liked Rudd for moving closer to China in his Three Pillars foreign policy. I guess all I can say is I hope this changes in the future, but I wont hold my breath.

What do you mean "moving closer to China"? Australia is doing business with China. China becomes our top one customer when Howard was still in the office. We never move closer to China. China pays and Australia sells. No more, no less!

What do you suggest to Prime Minister? To tell our biggist customer to F*** off?

Why should australia seek another military alliance? We already have an ally--US! We will not join any other military treaty if US is not part of it. There is no military organization can confront China if it is not lead by US.

 

[AOE]

What do you mean "moving closer to China"? Australia is doing business with China. China becomes our top one customer when Howard was still in the office. We never move closer to China. China pays and Australia sells. No more, no less!

What do you suggest to Prime Minister? To tell our biggist customer to F*** off?

Why should australia seek another military alliance? We already have an ally--US! We will not join any other military treaty if US is not part of it. There is no military organization can confront China if it is not lead by US.

If it's on the point of business, then you are correct, but on the point of selling uranium I'm afraid we should be more selective about who we sell it too. China is a proliferator of nuclear weapons, and I think Australia should have no part in it. Also what do you mean when you say 'our'? Are you Australian?

I'm also aware that we are still on good terms with the Americans, and I hope we never break relations with them.

 

[cw2005]

For a long time, say 50 years, before China may project power as far as Australia. In the near future, Australia, Indonisia and India are the big powers in the India ocean if USA is not counted.

When USA is around, China would always be the No.2 or No. 3 and she knows it. So the whole world has to contribute to finance USA for their own good and to get protection.

 

[civfanatic]

Australia cannot resist the Chinese without America. They are not a big military force. My hunch is that even Indonesia can overhelm them.

Indeed, there is little that Australia can contribute to any military alliance. The only thing Australia has that is of some use to us is resources, but China already has its hands all over the Australian resource market.

I think we should focus on improving relations with Indonesia and ASEAN, rather than Australia. Their economies are growing faster, they have much more untapped resources and untapped markets, and their closer proximity to India (both geographically and culturally) will facilitate growing relations. I wholeheartedly support the "Look East" policy.

 

[no smoking]

If it's on the point of business, then you are correct, but on the point of selling uranium I'm afraid we should be more selective about who we sell it too. China is a proliferator of nuclear weapons, and I think Australia should have no part in it. Also what do you mean when you say 'our'? Are you Australian?

Surprise! Yes, I am a chinese with Australian citizenship! And my children will be Australian born australian.

Firstly, China was a proliferator of nuclear weapons before 1992 when they signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. So far there is no evidence to prove that they broke it after that year.
Secondly, China has its own uranium mine within its border. The reason they bought it from Australian is cheaper price.
Thirdly, China has enough material ready for more than 1500 war heads. So, cutting australian supply won't affect them much.

I'm also aware that we are still on good terms with the Americans, and I hope we never break relations with them.

You should also be aware that US is the only one can protect Australia from China's potential military threat, not india or aisan nato. Whether or not we keep close relations with US is depending upen if it still has military edge over China. If it lost this edge after 30 to 50 years, we have to rethink our stance.