Auditors slam Indian Army’s poor artillery guns buying record

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Neil, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. Neil

    Neil Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Indian Army’s failure to buy even a single artillery gun to replace its obsolete inventory for over 25 years following the Bofors pay-off scandal has come under sharp attack from the government auditors, who have pointed out that procurement of these critical weapon systems “is not in sight in the foreseeable future”.

    In its latest reported submitted to parliament Tuesday, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) pointed out that artillery guns of modern technology could not be made available to the troops for over a decade and for replacing the existing guns of obsolete technology of 1970 vintage.

    “The acquisition of artillery guns included in the 10th plan from 2002-03 to 2006-07 has not materialised till now. The abnormal delay in procurement of the new guns had not only impacted the operational preparedness of the army but also resulted in substantial cost overrun,” the report said.

    The army has over the last 20 years been looking to buy critical artillery guns to replace its 105mm, 122mm and 130mm guns, but has not been successful in doing so, leading to an adverse impact on its operational preparedness for a future war.

    The situation was caused by the corruption scandal in the late 1980s resulting in the ouster of the Rajiv Gandhi government in the polls in 1989.

    Since then, the Indian Army has expressed its intention of buying four types of artillery guns, but has failed to procure even one of them, including the one on a government-to-government sale for 145 ultralight howitzers of 155mm 39 calibre guns from the BAE Systems’s stable from the US for which efforts were initiated two years ago.

    Among the guns required by the Indian Army are 155mm 53 calibre towed guns numbering 1,180, another 180 155mm 52 calibre wheeled self propelled guns, 100 of 155mm 52 calibre tracked self propelled guns, apart from the 145 ultra light howitzers.

    “After the last acquisition of Bofors guns under a contract in 1986, the defence ministry planned and initiated procurement process for acquisition of towed gun system and self-propelled gun system in mid 1990s, which could not materialise even after lapse of more than a decade due to non-defining the requirement of specific gun system by army, non-selection of proven gun and inconsistencies in evaluation of gun system,” it said

    http://idrw.org/?p=5972

    anthony ji....aap sote raho....!!
     
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  3. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Why castigate Army for it? The real blame lies with MoD (DRDO) and (def Production).

    Nahin to Bofors par thikara phor do.
     
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  4. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    Actually it is the Indian Polity who is to blame ... the BJP and the Left yells "Bofors" everytime they hear "Artillery guns" and the Congress freezes everytime they hear "Bofors".

    The Army suffers and Indian defense is set back ...
     
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  5. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    I would say the real blame lies with the CAG itself which has become a political tool to be used against any pragmatical decisions to be taken taking into consideration practicalities . these guys need to check how the real world works and not what it says in the rulebook.
     
  6. codysmacks

    codysmacks New Member

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    They all will realize their mistake when china knocks on our doorstep..
     
  7. DMF

    DMF Regular Member

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    China will not knock on your doorstep, for what a benefit China will get from you by knocking on your door? Your masochism will not help you at all. Face the reality and work hard to improve your country’s strength is the only way that will help. why India still need to buy guns both small and large? As a big nation, boasting of a democrazy system and the largest pool of the talented people in the world, still need to buy most of the hardware for your deffence, and always take China as your enemy, this way makes you look childish
    All Chinese people understand the simple truth, depend on yourself, and China is working to be a industrialized nation. If india can not develop to be a industrialized country, then you will always behind of China. And tell you the truth, really very very people in China hate Indians.
     
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  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Indian Army gives the intent.

    Whether to buy or not is not IA's decision!
     
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  9. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    You cannot blame the CAG for bringing out the lacunae in the system. Everybody knows the reasons for delay. Our Def Min is obsessive and paranoid about being clean that he has taken the simplest and best course of action-- do not take any decision. Rather than work to change the system he has opted for the easiest path and then he makes a statement in the Parliament that there is no shortage of Artillery Guns in the Army.
     
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  10. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Sir I did not get you comment. The decision making process is with the MOD and not IA, IA gives in their requirement to MOD and they are supposed to act on it.
     
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  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    That is what I wrote.

    The IA presents the case and if approved by the GoI, the IA undertakes User and Technical Trials.

    The best one tried is put up for GoI's approval.

    The GoI and the Price Negotiation Committee decides on which of the ones offered to buy. Political considerations also comes into play at this juncture.
     
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  12. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Why China will knock on your door step !
    Very very people in China hate Indians!

    so you find an answaer for your many contradictory statements.
     
  13. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    If DRDO fails to make a Gun is it the fault of IA? Even after 64 years DRDO only stakes claims to massage their pseudo scintists claims of making defense equipment.

    It could have been given to L&T or TATAS but then commission of Defense production is lost !

    IA is only a whipping boy !
     
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  14. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Since 80s no one ever gave any reqirment for a 155mm/52cal gun to DRDO or OFB..

    Its OFB technical team which draw a 155mm gun on paper but never given any specs to make it..

    Now after 20 so years someone told DRDO to manufacture a gun..

    The date is 2013, Better wait for 2 years than 20..




    From top to bottom everyone is involve, None of them are guarding the borders or will be as a shield for people in case of war..

    These people keep taking advantage until they are dead..
     
  15. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    As long as defence production is concentrated in the hands of DRDO and other PSUs, we can forget about any domestic development in defence. We will keep looking at foreign acquisition for weapons, and will never rise above being a wannabe mediocre power. DMF is right - it is a joke that India is still talking about acquiring such basic stuff from outside.
     
  16. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Kunal there were some attempts, because I remember that I had visited Gun Carriage Factory Jabalpur in this regard around 1998. I will try to find out from some of my old colleagues who were involved in this.
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    My experience with the DRDO has indicated that they fall prey to bureaucratic ways and then get disillusioned and join the systemic bandwagon.
     
  18. charlyondfi

    charlyondfi Regular Member

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    Dear Bhadra:
    I believe DMF skipped a "few" behind the "very, ver". So he means to say "very, very few people in China hate Indians!"
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  19. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    ARDE developed a 170 or 175mm gun back then but it wasn't practical..

    And all that without getting any request from IA, But they tried..
     
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The 75mm Gurdial Gun long back was a great success!
     
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  21. Neil

    Neil Senior Member Senior Member

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    Unacceptable delay

    Armed Forces need new equipment now


    Every time the subject of the country’s defence preparedness is raised in Parliament, the Government assures the people that the Armed Forces are well prepared to meet any military aggression from across the borders. While there is no disputing the fact that our Armed Forces personnel are prepared to defend the country with the last drop of their blood — they have done so on more than one occasion in the past — the question that needs to be asked is: Are they adequately equipped to meet the challenges?
    Wars are no longer fought with swords and lances — even in hand-to-hand combats — but are waged and won with the help of sophisticated weaponry, besides razor-sharp intelligence inputs. But, as a recent report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General has pointed out, the Indian Army continues to battle with “guns of obsolete technology of 1970s vintage”. The report, which has been tabled in Parliament this week, brings to the fore all that is wrong with our policy when it comes to acquiring arms and ammunition for the Armed Forces. A case in point is the inordinate delay in acquiring modern field guns. Ever since the infamous Bofors scandal broke out in the 1980s, the Indian Army has not been able to purchase a single artillery gun, although it today needs as many as 1,600 of these. While it is true that the outrage over the Bofors bribery scandal, whose beneficiary is known for his proximity to the Congress’s first family, has led to a more stringent procedure for the identification and acquisition of weapons, but now it seems that caution has become a cover for inaction at various levels. For instance, as the CAG has pointed out in its report, the Army brass is yet to precisely define the features required in new field guns. As a result, the Army has had to do without field guns of contemporary technology for over a decade and continues to depend on antiquated weaponry. That’s unconscionable. Nor can the Army brass justify spending five long years on trial evaluation of field guns that are still being developed. Why can’t the Army insist on getting the best field guns with a proven track record that are available in the market? The shameful bribery scandal apart, the Bofors guns were the best available then and rendered enormous service during the Kargil war.

    If senior Army officers responsible for selecting the new generation field guns have been dawdling over the choice for inexplicable reasons, the political leadership is not alert to the looming crisis either. Union Minister for Defence AK Antony is a man of unimpeachable integrity and nobody will ever question his intention if he were to actively push for speeding up the acquisition process. Yet, Mr Antony, no doubt wary of fingers being pointed at him by his detractors, has chosen to go slow. He does realise the necessity to make the Armed Forces stronger and fill up the yawning gaps in the hardware inventory of the Army, the Navy and the Air Force. To his credit, he has taken praise-worthy initiatives to strengthen India’s line of defence along its border with China. But strangely, there has been little or no movement on the purchase of military hardware. This situation cannot continue any longer. The issue is not one of finances — there are enough funds to pay for new state-of-the-art acquisitions. The delay is purely on account of a reluctance to go ahead and do the right thing. It’s time Mr Antony led from the front.




    Unacceptable delay | idrw.org
     

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