Attack Choppers to Add Teeth to Indian Army's Strike Corps

gogbot

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Don't forget that Mi-17s are also used by IAF as gunships.

Aren't we buying nearly 200 more of those?
They have primary role of troop transport ,
If we place them on combat strike missions , how are fast troop movements going to take place.

Besides i don't think they can carry enough A2G packages , specifically guided missiles.

And also IAF and IA need a lot more Choppers capable of troop movements well into the 1000's to pull of cold start. Diverting what assets we have is very unlikely.

of course i talk in large scale operations , if IA and IAF wanted to use cold start tactics on smaller level to capture sector by sector it would be enough
 

pmaitra

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They have primary role of troop transport ,
If we place them on combat strike missions , how are fast troop movements going to take place.

Besides i don't think they can carry enough A2G packages , specifically guided missiles.

And also IAF and IA need a lot more Choppers capable of troop movements well into the 1000's to pull of cold start. Diverting what assets we have is very unlikely.

of course i talk in large scale operations , if IA and IAF wanted to use cold start tactics on smaller level to capture sector by sector it would be enough
You are right. Just to clarify:
  • Mil-17 is a purely transport helicopter. Rocket pods attached to them is a stop-gap or makeshift arrangement and does not follow the design philosophy pf the helicopter.
  • Mil-24/35 is a combination of attack and transport helicopter. It is in the middle with dual use design philosophy.
  • Mil-28N is a true gunship with limited troop transport capability purely meant for rescuing pilots of downed helicopters.
  • HAL-LCH is a pure gunship meant to handle the low density air at high altitudes and is not meant to provide heavy armour protection to the pilots.
  • AH-64D is inferior to the Mil-28N as is when it comes to protection and flying capabilities, but the weapons assortment it can carry makes it more lethal.

We will need hundreds of these transport choppers for Cold Start. IMHO, it ain't happening sector-by-sector. Cold Start clearly states that we should be able to cover limited depth across the entire border and LoC and then use that for negotiating with the Pakistanis.
 
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civfanatic

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They have primary role of troop transport ,
If we place them on combat strike missions , how are fast troop movements going to take place.

Besides i don't think they can carry enough A2G packages , specifically guided missiles.

And also IAF and IA need a lot more Choppers capable of troop movements well into the 1000's to pull of cold start. Diverting what assets we have is very unlikely.

of course i talk in large scale operations , if IA and IAF wanted to use cold start tactics on smaller level to capture sector by sector it would be enough
Skip to 7:27 in the video

It is true that Mi-17s are primarily transports, but in a pinch they can be used as gunships. In a war scenario, what has to be done needs to done. Improvisation occurs quite often.
 
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pmaitra

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Skip to 7:27 in the video

It is true that Mi-17s are primarily transports, but in a pinch they can be used as gunships. In a war scenario, what has to be done needs to done. Improvisation occurs quite often.
The report is incomplete and therefore misleading about Mil-17s being improvised with rocket-pods. Using a transport helicopter as a gunship was simply a bad idea. The reason why they used Mil-17s instead of Mil-35s is because the latter would have had difficulty in those heights. Mil-17 hardly provides any of the protection that Mil-35 can. Add armour to the Mil-17, and it will struggle just like the Mil-35 in those heights.

This is what happens when we resort to stop-gap measures:



Squadron Leader Rajiv Pundir, Flying (Pilot),
No. 152 Helicopter Unit, Mi-17 ,
KIA 28 May 1999


Squadron Leader Rajiv Pundir of the IAF was killed in action on 28 May 99 while flying as a co-pilot of a Mi-17 helicopter being flown in the attack role during a mission against infiltrator held ground positions within the Indian side of the line of control.

A graduate of the National Defence Academy and a post graduate in Military Studies from the prestigious Defence services Staff College, Sqn Ldr Pundhir was the Flight commander of a Mi-17 Helicopter Squadron. The officer displayed courage of an extremely high order and carried out successful combat missions against heavily defended ground targets. He made the supreme sacrifice during one such mission by carrying out attacks in a very hostile environment wherein the opposition on ground was known to possess a surfeit of surface to air missiles, in spite of which the officer carried out repeated attacks in the face of lethal enemy opposition.

His courageous action in the face of enemy fire contributed significantly to the support being given by the IAF to the Indian Army in its efforts to dislodge the intruders from our territory.

Sqn Ldr Rajiv Pundir was commissioned in the IAF on 28 Apr 83 and was an experienced Helicopter pilot experienced on, among other aircraft, the Heavy Lift Mi-26 Helicopter besides having 2500 hours on the Mi-8 and Chetak/Cheetah helicopters.

An alumni of St Josephs Academy, Dehradun Rajiv Pundir was a thorough professional with a zest for doing things well. A very enthusiastic and energetic young man he remained at the centre stage of all activity. A keen sportsman, he had a passion for music and was an accomplished singer.

Sqn Ldr Rajiv Pundir is survived by his wife Mrs. Sharmila Pundhir, a seven-year-old daughter Bhavya, and a four and a half-year-old son Karan.



Flight Lieutanant Subramanian Mulihan, Flying (Pilot),
No. 152 Helicopter Unit, Mi-17 ,
KIA 28 May 1999


was killed in action on 28 May 99 when his helicopter was downed by a surface to air missile. He was captaining the aircraft, which was a Mi-17 helicopter, during an attack mission against ground positions strongly held by infiltrators.

Flight Lieutenant S Muhilan skillfully maneuvered his aircraft and repeatedly carried out attacks in the face of fierce enemy opposition in the form of ground fire and Stinger Surface to Air missiles. He paid the supreme sacrifice during this air to ground rocket attack against a heavily missile defended area. His courageous action unmindful of danger to his personal safety typifies the courage of the IAF's helicopter pilots who have time and again demonstrated such qualities during various operations including those conducted during natural calamities in aid to civil power.

An experienced helicopter pilot he has flown both the Mi-8 and Mi-17 helicopters. A science graduate who joined the air force through the Combined Defence Services exam was commissioned at the air force academy on 08 Dec 93. This young officer from Belgaum in Karnataka was a thorough professional with over a thousand hours on helicopters. He made the supreme sacrifice for his country in keeping with the highest traditions of the service.

Flt Lt Muhilan was an accomplished pilot from the Helicopter fleet of the air force and his flying skills enabled accurate delivery of lethal weapons against well entrenched positions. Intimately familiar with high altitude operations, his experience was an asset to the IAF in the current operations.

He is survived by his wife Mrs Bina Muhilan, he has also left behind a two year old son, Dhruv.



Sergeant P V N R Prasad, Flight Gunner,
No. 152 Helicopter Unit, Mi-17 ,
KIA 28 May 1999


Sergeant PVNR Prasad a Flight Gunner on board a Mi-17 helicopter was killed in action on 28 May 99 while participating in a combat attack mission against infiltrator held ground positions on the Indian side of the line of control in Kashmir.

Sgt PVNR Prasad displayed exemplary courage and bravery of the highest order. While in the face of intense enemy opposition, he carried out his functions in an exemplary fashion significantly contributing to the effectiveness of the crew as a whole. In doing so, he made the supreme sacrifice for his country. Sgt Prasad performed his mission undeterred by the dangers to his personal safety and we salute this brave airman for his valiant act.

Having joined the air force on 18 Jan 85 Sgt Prasad opted to become a Flight Gunner so that he could participate in active combat missions whenever required to do so. Hailing from Adilabad in Andhra Pradesh he served in many Air Force stations and specialised in Mi-8 helicopters.

He leaves behind Mrs P Anuradha his wife and a four-year-old daughter Hyndavi.



Sergeant Raj Kishore Sahu, Flight Engineer,
No. 152 Helicopter Unit, Mi-17 ,
KIA 28 May 1999


Sergeant Raj Kishore Sahu, a Flight Engineer on board a Mi-17 helicopter was killed in action on 28 May 99, when his helicopter was brought down over Indian territory by a surface to air missile. Raj Kishore Sahu was engaged in attacking ground targets in the Indian side of the line of control in Kashmir while attempting to dislodge intruders from the Indian side. He displayed the highest standard of professionalism in steadfastly carrying out his duties as ordered, in the face of intense enemy opposition during the attack mission. His cool and efficient functioning made possible the effective employment of the helicopter during the earlier attack. In doing so he made the supreme sacrifice for his country and we are proud of this brave and valiant soldier whose efforts would contribute in our evicting the infiltrators from Indian soil.

Sgt Raj Kishore Sahu hailed from Cuttack in Orissa and joined the IAF on 03 Aug 89. He served in many Air Force stations across the length and breadth of India and has been posted in both Mi-8 and Mi-17 squadrons besides working on the technical maintenace team for MiG-27 aircraft at a forward fighter base in the eastern region.

His father, Mr Krishna Chandra Sahu, survives him.

Source: Indian Air Force :: 1999 Kargil War
 
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bengalraider

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Mi28 is definitely ugly.
She may be ugly but she's one tough girl!
also it's a fair bet that our entire helicopter fleet being primarily Russian we will have lesser problems with the logistics of this bird.The prospect of MKIsing this baby is also there.
 

Armand2REP

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it's a fair bet that our entire helicopter fleet being primarily Russian we will have lesser problems with the logistics of this bird.
Have you forgotten the supply problems India has with Russia?
 

asianobserve

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It's still ugly. Looks like a first grader has sketched the first drawing of this chopper. To me the ugliness trumps any upside in commonality with existing choppers.

Reminds me of the old saying: "if it looks good it flies good..." How about the reverse?
 

asianobserve

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The longer i look at Mi28 the uglier it becomes. It seems that not even closer inspection/ familiarity can blur the ugly lines of this aircraft.
 

JBH22

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Does anyone what happened to Kamov bid in that contest i mean where is the Ka-52
 

maomao

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How can anyone say MI-28 is ugly?? I find it sexy and robust!

Just because half the world is used to American designs and cannot think beyond US, hence we reject handsome Mi-28 as ugly?

It's similar to the situation when a person has not seen a Persian beauty (ever), and when he encounters one, he terms her ugly while considering an Anglo-Saxon lady as sexy!! :)
 
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asianobserve

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"Just because half the world is used to American designs and cannot think beyond US, hence we reject handsome Mi-28 as ugly?"

So under this logic a Piper Cub is sexier than an F16 or an SU 35?
 

Dark_Prince

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BTW, I'll take an exotic Persian beauty anytime...
There you go.......Mi-28 is no Piper Cub but a sexy handsome HUNK.....nowhere in my statement I have suggested that, you contradict yourself!! :)

See it for yourself...........

Piper Cub




Mi-28



:D
 

asianobserve

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That Piper Cub is definitely ugly whether you're Russian, American, Sudanese or Indian... The Mi28 is no doubt a beast of a machine but it's not good looking.
 

Dark_Prince

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That Piper Cub is definitely ugly whether you're Russian, American, Sudanese or Indian... The Mi28 is no doubt a beast of a machine but it's not good looking.
Again, I would say it depends on how you look at it. lets take example of a Lion/Tiger some people may perceive the beast as - Majestic, Handsome, Hunk and some may consider it Vicious, Ugly, Heartless etc!!
 

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