Astra BVRAAM

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by LETHALFORCE, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,235
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Location:
    New Delhi
    Right Now,IAF has enough lot of r-77 BVRAAMs in its inventory as buffer stock (I personally get this info from IAF officer), you may cross check with your sources (which you can) and they can use them whenever they want. Right now, IAF is using R-27ER/ET as the prime BVRAAM.
    But I'm agreed with you, IAF will have SFDR (once completed) and Astra as prime BVRAAM in future.

    Anyways, some latest pics (2016)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Please help me to identify the AAM? :eek1:

    For R-73,




    Really?, should I take it as bullying act or a suggestion... Bcoz I can't debate on baseless and illogical quotes. As far as my experience matters , my previous project was for su-30mki MFD design but can't share present one due to sensitivity issues.

    Anyways, if he has enough knowledge than I'm eager to have BrahMos-NG on mk1 and mk1a.

    Good Day.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
    aditya10r likes this.
  2. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    30,965
    Likes Received:
    39,288
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    Nearly half of Russian air-to-air missiles with IAF have homing, ageing problems:

    New Delhi, Thu Jul 16 2009, 03:03 hrs
    Source :
    http://archive.indianexpress.com/ne...ve-homing-ageing-problems-cag-report/490055/1

    http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/iafs-air-to-air-missiles-are-faulty-report_547474.html


    ==========


    Auditor Slams Navy’s Selection Of R-77 Missile

    Source : https://www.livefistdefence.com/2011/09/auditor-slams-navys-selection-of-r-77.html

    ==========

    Ukraine is close to signing one of its biggest ever defense deals for air-to-air missiles with India, according to Russian media reports.

    Source : https://sputniknews.com/military/20120425173046325/

    =============

    [​IMG]
    Don`t confuse fact for your opinion. Qualify your opinion. If its personal experience say so, If its from a book say so. If your heard it from your great aunt`s sister`s best mate`s ex boyfriend best you don`t post it at all.


     
  3. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,235
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Location:
    New Delhi
    I posted the pics of su-30mki just as proof that R-77 is still in services, but here you are correct that the after sales contract for r-77 is expired but IAF is using them. And this info is as good as I personally dig it.

    This info is not an opinion by the way, I'm just sharing whatever is available on actual ground.

    Except me , my whole family is/was working/worked in Indian Armed forces where as I'm working on the projects which are directly concerned with Armed forces.

    As far as info about vympel NPO is concerned, that was totally based on books and internet & I want to back my claim that Vympel NPO is Russian firm with headquarters in MOSCOW. I can't understand Russian but you can visit its official website. @gadeshi may help in this matter.
    Third party link based on various references is https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Vympel NPO

    The contract renewal talks for R-27 and R-77 is also expected to be discussed next month with Russian delegation visiting india. By the way It is self sourced info and a considerable person confirms the same with the info that IAF is not showing interest in contract renewal.


    Anyways, leave that but you are good in trolling specially great aunt`s sister`s best mate`s ex boyfriend section..

    Everyone is free to decide their belief on my sourced info but the member you quoted in your last post , was claiming some things which are either not technically possible for jet or for the mission profile.
     
  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    30,965
    Likes Received:
    39,288
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    I have no problems if you back it up with sources, than just talks ..
     
  5. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,235
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Location:
    New Delhi
    There are some informations which are self sourced & not available in open media. Hence, you can't reveal the name of sources (due to security reasons, as you know how government employees are conservative about their jobs).
    As you have your strength in Indian Army related stuffs, similarly I have my strength in IAF and aviation related projects.
     
  6. Vorschlaghammer

    Vorschlaghammer Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    335
    Are these problems with the already stockpiled missiles design flaws, or more maintenance related, similar to what happened with Iranian Phoenixes after US left ?
     
    Kay likes this.
  7. Kay

    Kay Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    804
    Location:
    Delhi
    Self Delete

    30 Characters....................
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  8. Kay

    Kay Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    804
    Location:
    Delhi
    From source above:

    "Former Air Chief Marshal S Krishnaswamy said: "When the missiles were bought, they were top of the line, world class systems that no other country had. As we did not have our own testing facilities, they had to be tested in Russia. The question to be asked is whether the government approved testing facilities for the missiles in India."
     
    darshan978 likes this.
  9. Kay

    Kay Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    804
    Location:
    Delhi
    Also from report above:

    "Moreover, just yesterday Defence Minister A K Antony had disclosed that there were structural problems with India’s lead fighter planes, the MiG-29."
     
    darshan978 likes this.
  10. kunal1123

    kunal1123 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    407
    Likes Received:
    552
    DRDO’S precious ‘Project SFDR’: Connecting the Dots
    1/10/2018

    What we know about SFDR so far?

    SFDR, short form for ‘Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet’ is a propulsion technology different than that of conventional solid fuelled or liquid fuelled missiles. SFDR tech can also be termed as Air Augmented Rockets or Throttleable Ducted Rocket (TDR) or even Variable Flow Ducted Ramjet (VFDR). SFDR tech is currently being employed in Meteor (see Figure 1), a French Active Radar Guided Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) reportedly having a range of 300km, that significantly exceeds the range of any current conventional Air-to-Air missiles (AAM). Realizing what SFDR is capable of, a number of other countries have also started working on this propulsion technology, including India.
    [​IMG]
    Figure 1 - Meteor BVRAAM


    Why Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet?

    As the name goes, Ramjet is a form of air-breathing jet engine that eliminates the need of oxidizer. A typical rocket or missile, both liquid-fuelled and solid-fuelled have atleast 50 percent of its propellant, mixed with oxidizer, which is important for combustion to generate thrust. The end result being a significantly heavier missile. This is where an air-breathing engine, ‘Ramjet’ in this case, comes in to reduce the weight of the missile by instead taking oxygen from the atmosphere for combustion and significantly increasing the range efficiency of the missile. A Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet, if employed in an Air to Air Missile, can give a great boost to a country’s airforce superiority.


    Analysis of Project SFDR

    The news of DRDO developing a Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet Missile (shown in Figure 2 & 3) have been making rounds ever since second half of the current decade. But still not much is known about it, regarding its range, speed, dimensions, warhead weight etc., since DRDO is tight-lipped on it. Until recently, a schematics of DRDO SFDR has been found inside DRDO issued documents. The design scheme is very similar to that of Meteor BVRAAM with two air ducts, although DRDO’s 250kg SFDR is around 75kg heavier than 185kg Meteor. The project has already excited Indian military news followers and missile experts have termed it as “Desi Meteor”. However, some reports strongly suggests it’s a joint Indo-Russian Project, although no evidence of Russia’s direct involvement in SFDR project has ever been found.
    [​IMG]
    Figure 2 - Schematic of DRDO SFDR
    [​IMG]
    Figure 3 - 2D view of DRDO SFDR System
    Can the range and speed of SFDR missile be figured out?

    The answer to this question is fortunately yes, although not accurate, since the missiles’ actual range capabilities is only known to personnels involved in SFDR development. For finding the approx. range, we have to consider the cutting-edge Lithium Thermal Battery of SFDR (see Figure 5). DRDO’s SFDR Missile under development incorporates a state-of-the-art Lithium Thermal Battery weighing just 1.4kg which powers up the entire sub-systems of SFDR during its entire flight. The shelf life of Lithium Thermal Battery is highest amongst any kind of battery made in the world so far, with atleast 25 years of shelf life, which will help in lesser maintenance of this missile. The most notable thing in this Lithium Thermal Battery is its discharge duration requirement of minimum 230 seconds. The battery only gets activated when the missile is launched and its discharge time straightly points towards flight time of approx. 230 seconds. However, the velocity of SFDR still cannot be known unless DRDO officially reveals it, but with approx. 230 seconds flight time, its range can be figured with the help of the following table (see Figure 4) using different speed possibility. SFDR will guarantee a reach of minimum 250km range and up to 350km range, depending upon altitude and speed. Such range will also guarantee a 100km No-Escape Zone for enemy aircrafts.
    [​IMG]
    Figure 4 - SFDR Missile range estimation through flight time
    [​IMG]
    Figure 5 - Lithium Thermal Battery for SFDR BVRAAM
    Can a SFDR Missile Variant be used as Anti-AWACS missile?

    The famed Russian ULR-BVRAAM (Ultra Long Range - Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile) a.k.a Anti-AWACS missile, designated as K-100/ Article 172/ KS-172 Novator (see Figure 6), is the heaviest Air-to-Air missile in the world, standing at 748kg and boasting a range of 400km range with a speed of Mach 3.3. The missile has a conflicting report of whether or not it’s in the inventory of Indian Air Force (IAF). Nevertheless, its fully possible to convert SFDR into a dedicated Anti-AWACS missile with some modifications. An approx. 500kg weight reduction can be achieved from 748 kg weight of KS-172 to 250 kg weight of SFDR, although anti-AWACS variant of SFDR could possibly be slightly heavier. SFDR based missile would give India the capability to target High Value Targets (HVTs) of enemy countries during full-fledged war from a safe distance of 300+ km, which includes AWACS, AEW&C, ASW Aircraft, Transport Aircraft, Refueling Aircraft etc.
    [​IMG]
    Figure 6 - Novator K-100

    Is the ground launched SFDR missile variant none other than India’s mysterious DRDO XR-SAM?


    For times, SFDR was thought to be only an Air-to-Air Missile, until a schematics of ground launched variant of SFDR (see Figure 7) from a DRDO issued document was found recently. It shows a 250 kg SFDR missile mounted on a large 450 kg booster. Meanwhile, in an official missile poster put on display by DRDO mentions about XR-SAM, although no further information or pics on XR-SAM was provided on the poster. Saurav Jha, a prominent Indian Defence Journalist confirmed that DRDO’s XR-SAM have same range capability to that of S400 system’s 48N6 SAM boasting a range of 250km. With the SFDR Range Estimation table shown in Figure 4, the Ground Launched SFDR Missile (GL-SFDR) can easily attain a range of 250 km, which matches the range capability of ongoing DRDO Project XR-SAM. Although this theoretical assumption makes sense that GL-SFDR is XR-SAM, but there's still no substantial evidence regarding it, unless and until DRDO reveals more data on highly secretive XR-SAM project.
    [​IMG]
    Figure 7 - Ground Launched SFDR
    Conclusion

    Maturing of DRDO SFDR missile and its variants is still some years away with Captive Flight Trials (CFTs) hopefully at the end of 2018. Final SFDR Products could differ from the specs provided. The SFDR is indeed a high priority project for DRDO and future requirement for Indian Armed Forces w.r.t evolving threats of India’s unpredictable & unstable neighbors having no respect for India’s sovereignty. The future of missile warfare indeed belongs to air-breathing engines like ramjet, scramjet, shcramjet and pulse detonation engine.

    Author - Mohammad Noor Alam

    NOTE - All the information and pics in the article are taken from publicly available sources. The Article shall not be used for commercial purposes or be misused in any other ways. The Article shall not be reproduced without giving credits to No Man’s Land site (nmlonline.weebly.com).
     
    Amrk, Kyubi, cyclops and 10 others like this.
  11. kunal1123

    kunal1123 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    407
    Likes Received:
    552
    CAN ANY BODY CONFIRM IS ASTRA MK-2 AND SFDR IS SAME PROJECT OR DIFFERENT??????????
    AND
    IS SFDR IS JV WITH RUSSIA?????????
     
  12. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,931
    Location:
    Bottom of the Andaman sea planting mines for PLAN
    Nice article @NeXoft007 . An anti-AWACS version of SFDR is exactly what we need to counter PLAAF in Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim. Judging by the absence of construction of HAS on the Tibetan plateau, and by looking at the small number of aircraft deployed on the plateau itself, its evident that the PLAAF does not want to fly its missions from these locations. The PLAAF will most likely rely heavily on its aerial refueling tankers to extend the range of fighters flying from airfields at lower altitudes in Eastern China, primarily from Chengdu. We need to develop a few weapons that can threaten these aerial refueling tankers.

    However I am more interested in XR-SAM. I thought the XR-SAM was a variant of AAD. SFDR would certainly be better at the job than the AAD because SFDR is significantly lighter, but for that it needs to be designed for a speed of Mach 4.5 . Given that that is what Brahmos aims to achieve by 2025, maybe we need to go for this.......

    However, if XR-SAM or its follow-on projects aim to be a replacement to / an alternative of the S-400, especially the 40N6, or even the 48N6, DRDO would be better served if they go forward with developing AAD for the task. SFDR is too damn slow when compared to either missile in the S-400. Maybe in the not-so-near future when we have mastered solid-fueled scramjet technology, we will be able to make a SFDScramjet, but that is way too far into the future. Conventional solid fueled missiles are the only ones that with current technology can become anything like a long-range SAM.
     
    Amrk and aditya10r like this.
  13. NeXoft007

    NeXoft007 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Messages:
    827
    Likes Received:
    4,882
    Btw, I just got confirmation yesterday that SFDR is indeed JV between India and Russia. It's great that Russia and India are collaborating on this cutting edge technology.
     
    darshan978, Akak and Adioz like this.
  14. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    402
    What's the source for that. How how will it help India when they are developing R77M for their 5th gen fighter. It was meant to be the Indian project with Russia, coz India already have tested the ducted ramjet, so what Russia's part of work.

    Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk
     
  15. NeXoft007

    NeXoft007 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Messages:
    827
    Likes Received:
    4,882
    Screenshot_2018-01-25-13-11-33-747_com.google.android.apps.docs.png
    'Teeris ta akhoror niyom'
     
  16. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    402
    Only propulsion is JV not the missile bruh.........................
     
  17. rishivashista13

    rishivashista13 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    467
    Good article. SFDR has a huge scope for air defence roles of India. S400 deal can't be finalized, better we should work on our own multi layered long range air defense system like S400 other then BMD. Or we can add more layers in our BMD to make it more robust and multipurpose. Technologies like SFDR and SFDscramjet will be revolutionary for the same. For tackling China, these systems are must.

    Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk
     
  18. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    402
    Scramjet for a2a, you will then need your aircraft flying at Mach 4+ to launch the missile or need a huge booster which can boost the missile at Mach 4+ to make it a hypersonic run.

    Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk
     
  19. rishivashista13

    rishivashista13 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    467
    I was talking about air defense systems. Scramjet for long range SAM will be ideal.

    Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk
     
  20. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    402
    For air defence you need huge booster for the Scramjet to work.

    Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk
     
    rishivashista13 likes this.

Share This Page