Assasin's Mace

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Daredevil, May 28, 2009.

  1. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    You people might have heard about Assassin's mace, a strategy allegedly designed by China to take on technologically superior American military in the event of conflict, a way 'to defeat superior by an inferior'. Here is a article on
    'Assassin's Mace'. Very interesting, must read

     
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  3. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    continued here

     
  4. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Here is another related article.

     
  5. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    Th author watches too many Chinese kung-fu type movies like "tiger with the eagles claws", "skinny tiger, smelly dragon" or "The buddhist palm". :p

    And he was a general in the Philippines, not US. They US generals do know a thing or two more about USA;s true capabilities:wink: . Also, one point more, the US Generals have authority to use nuclear first strike even in the event of a cyber attack on America.
     
  6. kautilya

    kautilya Regular Member

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    How do you pin point the source of a cyber attack? It's not actually that easy. The attacker might as well make a false flag operation of it then. The vast majority of computer users are ill informed about security in general. All it takes is a reasonably competent individual.

    Besides how about "non-state actors"? What's good for the pupil is good for the master.
     
  7. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Please tell me this is not a serious thread.
     
  8. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Let me tell you on how we handle this. Obviously, you're way too young to recognized that we have thought this out.

    We EXPECTED our computer systems to be taken over by the enemy.

    Not because of some Chinese teenagers wanking off in his room but by Soviet tanks over-running our command posts.

    So, you tell me. Why should the teenage hacker will do more damage than a tank shooting up my command post and killing my people!

    And a further on, why should that kid have any clue as to our counter-measures of me losing my CP?
     
  9. vish

    vish Regular Member

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    ROFLMAO...

    OoE: Sir, the best way to get you in on any board is to start a thread titled "Assasin's Mace."
     
  10. kautilya

    kautilya Regular Member

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    If you want to talk feel free. Leave the condescension at the door. I'm quite aware of the subject I'm talking of.

    For one, a much much larger volume of the world's transactions and records are electronic. The world has changed a lot in the 15 odd years since the cold war.

    I have no idea what you mean.
     
  11. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    No, you don't.

    You know crap all and pretending to know something.

    Give me a freaking break! As expected, you pound the dumb answers that all the new kids on the block spout out. Let me answer you the way I answer all you dumb kids. I expected my Command Post to collapse ... not by some young smart alec hacker but by a Soviet tank killing me. So, tell me, why should my contigencies would not work?

    And that is the saddest part of this.

    I ain't being condessending but you have absolutely no idea about fighting WWIII.
     
  12. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    To be blunt! Anyone spouting assasin's mace has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. It's a comic book reference. Say AM to a Chinese officer and he thinks that you've been reading too many comic books.

    AM is a cultural reference. Not a military one. It is akin to the term "sucker punch." Just as we, the west, have no doctrine called or based upon the sucker punch, there is no Chinese doctrine based upon or called the Assasin's Mace.

    Sa Shou Jiang is the Chinese version of Thor's Hammer.
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    After the collapse of the USSR, the US had the option of:

    • Making Russia an ally.
    • Squeeze Russia so that its borders are farthest from US interests in Europe and original NATO countries.

    The idea of making Russia an ally was contrary to the ingrained mindset about Russia developed from the time Russia became Communist and reinforced during the Cold War era. There was also no guarantee that Russia would reciprocate because she was still a formidable power, with a superpower mentality, even if economically in the doldrums.

    What forced the US hand to not attempt trying to make Russia an ally was Time. It was also at a premium since one was not aware as to how long Russia would remain in the unstable situation. Therefore the US had to act to ensure that Russia was isolated and squeezed. This is in line with Dick Cheney’s document Defence Policy Guidelines that he had initiated when he was Bush sr’s Defense Secretary.

    The US had already the agenda on the anvil. The US with the connivance of the Roman Catholic Church worked on Poland. Lech Wałęsa was their front man. (He is the only private foreign citizen to address a joint session of the United States Congress, which he did on November 15, 1989. He was also the first recipient of the Liberty Medal on July 4, 1989 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In his acceptance speech, he said, "Liberty is not only a right, but also our common responsibility and duty"), who working on the historical animosity of Russians organised a revolt and then became the President. One of the main gateways into Europe by Russia was thus closed. Thereafter, remainder of the Comecon countries fell into the US’ sphere of influence. Serbia alone withstood the onslaught, but it was bombed for 78 days. The Kosovo issue was agitated and casting aside of the US Islamphobe, they encouraged secession and even organised NATO ‘supervision’ to ostensibly prevent bloodshed!! Norway’s Athisaari, who is supposed to be ‘neutral’, was inducted to ensure a ‘peaceful solution’. His partisan approach was so evident!

    Having consolidated in Eastern Europe, the US turned on South Eastern Europe and organised the Rainbow revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine. It gave huge military and financial aid to CAR nations, but possibly because they are Muslim nations, they did not bite the bait and stuck close to Russia with which it had an easy relationship since it was equally dictatorial! Yet, the US has its eyes on the largest hydrocarbon resource of the world in CAR and thus its interest in Afghanistan (oil pipeline to Gwadar and to India and China to boost its economy) and to some extent Iraq (sweet oil and break the OPEC cartel that is hurting the US)!


    Thus, while China may have been encouraged to lean on to Russia, the US had its strategic and national compulsions!
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    OOE,

    Why do you think Assassin's Mace is bogus?
     
  15. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Sir,

    Because Chinese Operational Thinking does not rely on the "and a miracle happens here." The Chinese military, like everyone else, thinks on cost-effectiveness..

    They would like you to think they have a secret weapon but in reality, it's a scare tactic with no real teeth behind it.

    Sir, as I indicated to you in our email exchange, the PLA thinks that deterrence is an OPOBJ. They went to war in 1979 against Vietnam to deter the USSR. This does not mean that they had a thought or prayer of stopping the Soviet Army from nuking Lop Nor nor Beijing ... but they would like Moscow to think that.

    Fast forward 30 years (yes, Sir, we're that old) and we have Chinese generals commenting on nuking Los Angelles.

    In short, Sir, the other name for AM is called the bluff.
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There is no doubt that the US vulnerability lies in the US electricity grid, its computer networks, its oil supply routes, and the dollar.

    Further, while the US can ignore the Indian services industry, it cannot ignore the cheap Chinese goods, more so, given that the average Americans are cash starved! Thus, China holds the US jugular!

    Given the international power play, Russia is China’s strategic depth. And the Chinese are sharp cookies! Make no mistake!

    However, it is still too premature to state that solid geopolitical, economic, diplomatic and military alliance is there between Russia and China. Iran, which is being pressured by the US, is leaning close to Russia, but then one must not discount their historical animosity and fear of Russia.

    The article Assasin's Mace should not be dismissed as junk.

    Any intelligence analyst never dismisses any input as junk!

    9/11 was also a fiction (did someone write about it before it happended?). And then it screwed the world!!
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    OoE,

    I don't take things as bedtime stories.

    One must analyse and not go by preconceived ideas.

    I have indicated many á time, don't take the Chinese as a pushover.

    If they were not clever, then an impoverished country like China in 1949 could not have risen to such great heights.

    They are my adversary, but I appreciate what they are achieving!

    The world has much to learn from their ways!
     
  18. kautilya

    kautilya Regular Member

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    We're talking of an electronic attack. I'm a commn. engg who's designed software security solutions for network eqpmt. I'm curious to know what knowledge you bring to the table.

    I don't give a flying F which tank is overrunning what base or how they plan to fight WW F'ing 3. Nor did I claim knowledge. I do know network security and I know the volume of traffic that flows across today. I'm aware of the loss of money associated with a 10 min downtime and I'm aware of just how easy it is to cause it and just how hard to trace. By all indications, you aren't.

    I'll say it again. The world has changed. You don't need to move tanks across the Fulda gap. You can cause absolute chaos by blocking commn between a bank's branch office and it's data repositories. How about blocking CC processing? So much money is plastic that you'd freeze commerce.

    Anyone who thinks electronic attacks are so hard or that easily containable or traceable doesn't know jack about data or network security. Your ignorance is underwhelming and language hysterical.

    Added Later: I'd added an aside on non state actors in my original post. Aside from being a dig at Pakistan, it's a very real possibility. Georgian networks were hit during the war with Russia and indications are that the actors were not linked to the government of Russia. This kind of distributed knowledge base exists. Currently Iranian networks are being hit by DDOS attacks on govt. sites. How are they being done? Easily downloadable apps that anyone and their grandmother can run.
     
  19. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Sir,

    I do not disagree with you ... however, you will have to know what the Chinese are saying in order to understand them ... and anyone spouting Sai Shou Jiang has absouletely no clue to what he is talking about.

    Aside from the fact that the PLA has no stated Assasin's Mace doctrine, this author took a comic book reference (and I mean that litterally) and bastardized Chinese developments to fit his agenda.

    It is akin to me making the statement that Samson grew his long as the basis for the Indian doctrine Cold Start.

    BTW, Sir, I am mailing you my copy of "The Science of Military Strategy." It is the PLA's course requirement to promotion to Major rank.

    We have a lot to talk about when you read Chapter 11.
     
  20. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    You still don't get it. BTW, I've got my Masters in Digital Communications in 1983. Yeah, I am that old.

    And here is where you show your ignorance. The communications has not been compromised. It has been terminated by lethal force. Somehow, I don't think you're understanding this.

    And here is where you're showing your ignorance to the hilt. Since when in history has an army been stopped because of a lack of money?

    I have given you enough hints that you do not have a single clue and still cling to your wishfulness. You're the one who is hysterical. Again, I ask you why is a Chinese hacker more dangerous than the Soviet tank charging my CP? You still don't get it and you probably never will.

    Are you freaking serious? The one thing NATO has yet to figure out is why Georgia moved provided the info we gave them on the 58th Army.

    You're not in my league. Don't pretend you know how we deal with a C2 collapse. Surface to say, the Chinese ... and the Indians have absolutely no clue to our reactionary measures.
     
  21. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Assasin's Mace is pretty much horse puckey in my mind.

    US can depend on its oil reserves in Alaska and Texas. Along with oil imports from Saudi Arabia. The Soviets or the Chinese cannot be expected to operate in the Atlantic or the Mediterranean with the same capacity as the US and NATO.

    Also, USN's strategic vessels have nuclear propulsion, more than Russia and China combined.

    That's the dumbest thing I have ever read. Destroying US C4ISR(fat chance) will bring them down to Russia's or China's level and not down on their knees.

    I wonder, how on earth can a country bring down another countries C4I without going nuclear.?Simply hacking a network is impossible. You will need people working on the inside to pull it off(fat chance). Simply cause China has been able to hack DoD's website means squat if you can't hack into their mission control in Houston.

    So, the biggest weaknesses in US military command structure is Oil and C4I. ROFL.

    Like OOE said, you need to physically run over CP's in order to bring it down. There is no other way.

    Sitting in front of a computer will only give the Chinese hackers a bad eyesight, a headache and a stiff back. And in the end they will be host to a million viruses, that is considering US is using the civilian internet for communication(which they are not).

    Lastly, if you attack enemy communications, you are cutting of your own communications. EW is a double edged sword. That's how the Prowler operates.
     

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