Assalayana Sutta

[LurkerBaba]

This is an extract from the Tipitaka. It's a dialogue between Gautam Buddha and a Brahmin (Assalayana):

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monstery. And on that occasion five hundred brahmans from various provinces were staying at Savatthi on some business or other.

The thought occurred to them, "This Gotama the contemplative prescribes purity for the four castes. Now who is capable of disputing with him on this statement?"

And on that occasion the brahman student Assalayana was staying at Savatthi. Young, shaven-headed, sixteen years old, he was a master of the Three Vedas with their vocabularies, liturgy, phonology, etymology, & histories as a fifth; skilled in philology & grammar, he was fully versed in cosmology and in the marks of a Great Man. The thought occurred to the brahmans, "This brahman student Assalayana is staying in Savatthi... He is capable of disputing with Gotama the contemplative on this statement."

Link to full passage (with actual arguments): Assalayana Sutta: With Assalayana

 

[Iamanidiot]

Confusing and I vaguely understood the argument reinforces by belief in the Heterdox sects I posted in the other thread.Let me see what the cow pee connoseiurs like galaxy who support brahminism got to say about this

 

[LurkerBaba]

Confusing and I vaguely understood the argument

Hmm there is a lot of repetition in the text which can be confusing. Still, the argument is quite interesting

 

[Iamanidiot]

Hmm there is a lot of repetition in the text which can be confusing. Still, the argument is quite interesting

Buddha says that all castes are equally pure and advocates egalitarianism.The cow pee connoseiur tries to justify brahminical racial purity by speaking about Birth through the mouth of the creator then the cow pee connoseiur advocates the racial purity (TFTA ness).Finally the Brahmin tries to endorse by saying that brahmins have knowledge courtesy Manusmrit and all the vedas.Finally he says brahmins are noble which the buddha refutes.Gradually the Buddha beats him in the circular argument.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Buddha says that all castes are equally pure and advocates egalitarianism.The cow pee connoseiur tries to justify brahminical racial purity by speaking about Birth through the mouth of the creator then the cow pee connoseiur advocates the racial purity (TFTA ness).Finally the Brahmin tries to endorse by saying that brahmins have knowledge courtesy Manusmrit and all the vedas.Finally he says brahmins are noble which the buddha refutes.Gradually the Buddha beats him in the circular argument.

Yeah, I got the argument. (I thought you were confused ). Anyways, I'll post more of these debates later.

 

[warriorextreme]

Buddha says that all castes are equally pure and advocates egalitarianism.The cow pee connoseiur tries to justify brahminical racial purity by speaking about Birth through the mouth of the creator then the cow pee connoseiur advocates the racial purity (TFTA ness).Finally the Brahmin tries to endorse by saying that brahmins have knowledge courtesy Manusmrit and all the vedas.Finally he says brahmins are noble which the buddha refutes.Gradually the Buddha beats him in the circular argument.

most of the brahmins before budhism and jainism were destroying vedic dharma...here is the example how that happened...

Purush Sukta is in 31st Chapter of Yajurved, apart from Rigved and Atharvaved with some variations. In Yajurved it is 31.11. To see what it actually means, we should check the previous mantra 31.10.
It asks a question – Who is mouth? Who is hand? Who is thigh and who is leg?

The next mantra gives the answer – Brahmin is mouth. Kshatriya is hand. Vaishya is thigh and Shudra becomes the legs.
Note that the mantra does not say that Brahmin "takes birth" from mouth"¦It says Brahmin "is" mouth. Because if the mantra would mean "takes birth" it would not answer the question in previous mantra "Who is mouth?"

The actual meaning is:
In society, Brahmins or intellectuals form the brain or head or mouth that think and speak. Kshatriya or defense personnel form the hands that protect. Vaishya or producers and businessmen form the thigh that support and nurture (note that thigh bone or femur produces blood and is strongest bone). In Atharvaveda, instead of Uru or Thigh, the word "Madhya" is used meaning that it denotes also the stomach and central part of body.
Shudra or Labor force form the legs that lay the foundation and make the body run.

The next mantras talk of other parts of this body like mind, eyes etc. The Purush Sukta describes the origin and continuation of creation including human society and states ingredients of a meaningful society.

its a pity that such a beautiful allegorical description of society and creation is distorted to mean something that is completely contrary to Vedic ethos.

Vedas describe God to be shapeless and unchangeable. How can such a God would want to take shape of a gigantic person if he is shapeless. Refer Yajurved 40.8.