Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Shoal)

Discussion in 'Indo Pacific & East Asia' started by Oblaks, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. Oblaks

    Oblaks Regular Member

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    A Game of Shark and Minnow - Who Will Win Control of the South China Sea? - NYTimes.com


    The entire world has an interest in the South China Sea, but China has nearly 1.4 billion mouths and a growing appetite for nationalism to feed, which is a kind of pressure that no other country can understand. What will happen will happen, whatever the letter of the Asean code of conduct or however the arbitration turns out. Loresto and Yanto, meanwhile, still abide on the Sierra Madre, fishing for their subsistence and watching the surf to see what wave the Chinese will choose to ride in on.

     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
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  3. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    Exactly !!

    CCP is feeding a venom to Chinese citizens and increasing the animosity levels, their history is full of propaganda.
     
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  4. Oblaks

    Oblaks Regular Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    PH stands firm on claim over Ayungin Shoal | Inquirer Global Nation


    http://globalnation.inquirer.net/10...t-on-expulsion-of-ph-vessels-by-chinese-ships

     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  5. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    It was Filipino who started the aggression to Renai Shoal

    Use your own link >>
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    [​IMG]

    Philippines shall pull that junk off the shoal
     
  6. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    The title is just bloviation. No way is this the most 'potential' flashpoint in Asia. The farthest up the escalation ladder things would go is a pissing match with water cannons.
     
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  7. Oblaks

    Oblaks Regular Member

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  8. fzaq

    fzaq Regular Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    so what if that "junk" is stucked in there? its our territory anyway
     
  9. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    The entire New York Times is bloviation every day.
     
  10. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    Except for the part where they talk about administration abuses of power... in that case, its a begrudged downplaying of known facts...
     
  11. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    The rusty junk is doing great damages to our mother earth day by day, detrimental to the fragile oceanic environment, endangering fish and all species, and so on.

    [​IMG]
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    !5 years gone. That's why BRP Sierra Madre shall get lost from our beloved Renai Shoal!
     
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    Let us whip out an 'ancient' map and let the game begin!
     
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  13. Oblaks

    Oblaks Regular Member

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  14. CCP

    CCP Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    picture from yesterday

    [​IMG]

    Our policy is " you can send water and food but not building materials " , otherwise those guys on the rusty junk would died long ago.

    We enjoy the cat-and-mouse game and Philippine also enjoyed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
  15. Zero_Wing

    Zero_Wing Regular Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    Blah blah chinese suck blah blah
     
  16. Oblaks

    Oblaks Regular Member

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  17. Oblaks

    Oblaks Regular Member

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  18. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    How long can the worn-out Sierra Madre continue to weather Pacific storms after nearly 15years? How many times can Chinese CG be "outwitted"?

    [​IMG]

    Will Britain accept any arbitration over Falklands by an "intl court"?

    The only way to stop PH coveting is to have a permanent set-up on Ren'ai Shoal
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Oblaks

    Oblaks Regular Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh


    That's easy.. ground another ship there!:rofl:

    Just until the arbitration results are handed out. By then the ne PH naval base would have been finished (its just a couple of miles to Ayungin) with extended facilities to US and Japanese Naval assets. Then bigger ships are now justified to go to the shoal to carry construction materials escorted by US destroyers. And BRP Sierra Madre can finally be replaced with a concrete naval facility there.


    http://thediplomat.com/2013/10/the-philippines-is-building-a-new-naval-base-in-south-china-sea/

    Apples and Oranges...


    How???
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  20. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    Ren'ai Shoal >>> will be built into another Meiji Reef if PH continues cornering China

    Meiji (Mischief)
    [​IMG]
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  21. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Asia's Most Potential Flash Point: Second Thomas Shoal (Ayungin Sh

    Once upon a time the Philippines was the most advanced country in post-WW2 Asia, probably most westernized (or americanized) culturally and politically.

    Philippines - Economy
    But now >>>

    Old US ship home to Philippine marines in China standoff - Pacific - Stripes

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    A dilapidated Philippine Navy ship LT 57 (Sierra Madre) with Philippine troops deployed on board is anchored off Second Thomas Shoal, locally known as Ayungin Shoal, Sunday, March 30, 2014 off South China Sea. On Saturday, China Coast Guard attempted to block the Philippine government vessel AM700 carrying fresh troops and supplies, but the latter successfully managed to docked beside the ship to replace troops who were deployed for five months.

    ABOARD BRP SIERRA MADRE, Spratly Islands — On board the crumbling carcass of this World War II-era warship, Filipino marine 1st Lt. Mike Pelotera and his eight men make their way to a mid-level deck to raise the Philippine flag up a leaning pole and then salute it. Across the calm, turquoise waters, two Chinese coast guard ships lurk, looking on.

    Its hull riddled with holes and rust, the BRP Sierra Madre has become a fragile symbol of the Philippines' claim to Second Thomas Shoal, an eight-kilometer (five-mile) -long submerged coral outcrop that has been disputed by China and the Philippines for years.

    It's a lonely ship, where Pelotera and his team wage a daily battle against isolation.

    "There's a point where you tend to feel low," Pelotera said of the challenges of his team's four-month deployment at the reef, where there is no land to stand on and nothing to stare at all day but sea. "But we have to kill the boredom because there is an important mission to fulfill."

    The Philippine navy inherited the former U.S. tank-landing ship USS Harnett County in 1976, and ran it deliberately aground at Second Thomas Shoal in 1999.

    A Chinese frigate and maritime surveillance ships arrived last year to press China's claim to the shoal, which is believed to be sitting atop undersea oil and gas reserves. The move was an example of China's increasing assertiveness in the South China Sea, something that is alarming the United States, Manila's longtime ally.

    Analysts say China's strategy is to slowly take possession of islands and outcrops in the South China Sea, using intimidation where necessary but avoiding any major confrontation. Its military might and economic dominance in the region mean it can push its weight around with little fear.

    Second Thomas Shoal and the nearby Spratly Islands lie about 120 miles (190 kilometers) from the western Philippine province of Palawan, and about 700 miles (more than 1,000 kilometers) from southern China. China's foreign ministry says Beijing has "indisputable sovereignty" over the shoal.

    The Sierra Madre is now effectively a shipwreck, but the Philippine military has not decommissioned it. This makes the ship an extension of the government and means any attack on the ship is tantamount to an assault against the Philippines. The Chinese ships are around 5 miles (8 kilometers) from the outpost, clearly visible to those on board.

    When Associated Press journalists and other members of the media were allowed to board the ship over the weekend, the marines went about their day, washing dishes and giving the visitors a short tour. The slow strain of Kid Rock's late 1990's song "Only God Knows" played from an old stereo set.

    "We're marines," Pelotera said in an interview. "We can adapt to life anywhere."

    Another marine, Cpl. Sheffrey Luna, said people should look beyond the ship's disrepair.

    "They should see the determination of the soldiers in it," he said. "If you're not determined here, where everything you see is water, you won't last long."

    In the last 15 years, the Sierra Madre has slowly crumbled, beaten by the sun, sea and storms.

    Its main deck, used as a helipad before, is now home to an upturned lifeboat and toppled iron poles. Doors and wooden scraps cover holes and weak deck sections that could collapse and hurl a marine down into the cavernous cargo hold. Its towering mast is heavily rusted and could be toppled by the next big storm.

    Three weeks ago, the Chinese succeeded in blocking for the first time a Philippine boat bringing troops and supplies to the Sierra Madre.

    Manila deployed a civilian boat last week with a fresh batch of marines and 10 tons of food. In a bid to draw global attention to what Philippine officials have called China's bullying tactics, they invited more than a dozen journalists, TV cameramen and photographers to come along on the 30-hour-plus journey from the Philippine mainland.

    Two Chinese coast guard ships tried to block the slow-moving vessel, with one cutting dangerously through the Philippine boat's path twice. The Chinese coast guard warned the boat by radio to turn back, saying it was illegally venturing into Chinese territory. The Chinese ships blew their horns continuously, but the boat maneuvered toward a shallow approach to the shoal dotted with submerged rocky outcrops, preventing the Chinese from continuing.

    Carl Thayer, a professor at the University of New South Wales and an expert on the dispute, said China is trying to wear the Philippines down. "China is mainly motivated to squelch the Philippines and its vocal and legal opposition to Chinese assertiveness, less this inspire other regional states to do the same," Thayer said. "Bit by bit, China hopes to condition regional states into accepting its hegemony."

    Philippine navy Lt. Ferdinand Gato, who led the resupply mission, smiled as the boat approached the Sierra Madre, with the outgoing marines, some of them sporting beards, waving and smiling on the deck. He had served as a gunnery officer of the warship during military campaigns against Muslim insurgents and Abu Sayyaf extremists in the mid-1990s.

    A regional military commander, Lt. Gen. Roy Deveraturda, awarded Pelotera and his men with bronze cross medals Monday for their work on the Sierra Madre.

    "You can now shave and have a haircut," he told the marines.

    He said he was heartened when he asked each of them if they were willing to return to the Philippine ship on the shoal. "They told me, 'anytime, sir.'"
     

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