Asian? Yes. How about Pakistani? Or is speaking the truth racism?

Scalieback

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Scalie, it took Britain centuries, from the start, some point during the late Enlightenment era, early Industrialization, of the realization that children should not be exploited, to come through with such a legislation to protect them.

Indians, on the other hand, are still not as socially developed yet to fully understand such concepts as Pedophilia.

We do have certain states, such as Goa, which have enacted laws against Pedophilia, however this has still not been done by the rest of the states, and the reason is a lack of understanding due to a lack of social development.

Mind you, when you started to send your children up chimneys, or even after you stopped doing so; we were under an occupation and being deprived of the same Industrial development which Britain was carrying out so vigorously in its own nation, using resources exploited from India, aswell as the "New World".

In due time, as awareness spreads, you will slowly start to see the same legislations being passed in India as India socially 'catches up' with the West.

Shows such as SMJ, which you are quoting from, are but a fine example of Indians socially waking up to recognize their own problems and spreading awareness in understanding these problems across the social sphere. Once this social realization takes place, the next natural step is political activism. This is how a country is built.

Cheers!
Laudable explanation. However, what child abuse legislation was on the books in 1947?

Frankly I'm astounded at the stats provided. Every other one of you was abused as a child? That may explain some the of 'angry man' attitudes on here.
 

Scalieback

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I would think that it would be correct to mention the nationalities rather than club them under an all encompassing label - Asian.

The reason is simple. There is already a resentment building up in the UK over the misuse of British liberal laws to serve pet peeves (for the want of a better expression). Notwithstanding the brushing off of such an idea of resentment, this resentment will find expression in a backlash.

In that backlash, it will not be Pakistanis alone who will be targeted, but also other Asian since all that one would remember is the word 'Asian' and not the nationality of the real perpetrators of the crimes.

It is not this case alone that the Pakistanis are guilty of. It seems to be a natural progression for them, if one goes by the British news and even the stuff one sees on the Youtube!

I will not blame the British if the resentment is building up. It is natural.

If it happened anywhere in the world, the same would happen.
In this case it was principally Pakistani's with one Afghan. When it's Catholic priests kiddy fiddling, should I say all white catholics are peado's? Should I establish that it is people of Irish, Italian, English first? Or should I just say that the nonces should be brought to book?
 

Scalieback

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The point is why is "Asian" being used. If they are Asian, they are also UK citizens too. Why not just use "Sex Gang busted" or "Child sex abusers arrested" if mentioning the race or geographical location is so sensitive. Or how about "Rochdale sex gang caught"

And if it has to be mentioned, why not call them British Pakistani gang. Afterall, these are British citizens of Pakistani origin.

In any case, I think the backlash will be more on the Muslim nature rather than the Asian nature of these criminals. What really makes me angry is how the defence lawyer tried to pass it off as a "Cultural norms". That is just BS.

These men KNEW exactly what they were doing was wrong and criminal. They KNOW that sex outside of marriage is wrong and even criminal in Pakistan and considered wrong in Pakistani culture. They KNEW that not only drinking alcohol is wrong but given it to girls and kids is wrong too. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen in Pakistan but the idea that culturally it is acceptable in Pakistan for them to go about plying young girls with alcohol and have sex with them is just trying to fool the British criminal system.

What did shock me was why are these people being senteced for only 4-10 years in jail with only 1 person getting 19 years. Either these people should be deported back to the country or given 40+ year sentences (i.e. life sentences) without parole if not the death penalty.
You've pretty much encapsulated it. So either race is a factor or it is not. In this case it is a certain section of that community. Should I tar all Pakistani's with this? All muslims? Or just say a peado is a nonce and jail them?

As for sentencing, it's pretty poor I agree. Castration for proved nonce's in my book. As for deportation, if they're born in the UK where do you deport them to?
 

pmaitra

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Okay, so until everyone has their self perceived ethnicity determined and there's a call on the Police radio looking for suspects; how do you describe the perpetrators?
Here is an example of a police report:
Date/Time: 04-29-2012, at approximately 2:10 AM
Location: Parking Lot 5-A at 9228 Martin Village Rd.
Incident: Armed Robbery
Suspect Info: Black male, late twenties in age, approximately 5'-11" tall, approximately 150 to 160 pounds, wearing a light gray hooded sweat shirt, dark sweat pants and dark shoes.
Pretty straight forward.


Actually Pmaitra, I think the 'land of the free' where you live has far more racial tension than the UK. How do they describe Indians in America (not native Americans).
Indians are usually stereotyped as working in engineering or science related disciplines. A stereotype does exist, but a positive one.

Yes, there is an issue, but that is related to economics, and politics. It is about retaining jobs vs sending them abroad or companies moving out debate. However, interpersonal relations are great.

"Welcome to America," is something one gets to hear very often. Personal experience!

The USA is indeed very egalitarian.
 

Scalieback

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Scalie, you may not be able to call a persons origin by looking at him. But after they are caught and investigated, their identities would surely be known. Whether they are British citizens of Pakistani origin or Pakistanis on work visas. When the report comes in print, I am sure all the people's identity and background will be known. Even after that calling them Asians is a willful ploy to put the entire subcontinent under scanner.
As I said, it's ethnicity both self perceived and a descriptor. I guess this is something you need to send to the Commission for Racial Equality in the UK.

Frankly, all nonces should be described as such, whatever their ethnicity.
 

pmaitra

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You've pretty much encapsulated it. So either race is a factor or it is not. In this case it is a certain section of that community. Should I tar all Pakistani's with this? All muslims? Or just say a peado is a nonce and jail them?

As for sentencing, it's pretty poor I agree. Castration for proved nonce's in my book. As for deportation, if they're born in the UK where do you deport them to?
You nailed it. Yes, it is a certain section of the Asian community, and they are called Pakistanis, not Indian, Nepalese, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Kazakh, Mongol, et al.

Now, within the Pakistanis, some may be law abiding, some not. You can further refine your description. Just don't use the term 'Asian,' is my protest to the British media.

You've pretty much encapsulated it. So either race is a factor or it is not. In this case it is a certain section of that community. Should I tar all Pakistani's with this? All muslims? Or just say a peado is a nonce and jail them?

As for sentencing, it's pretty poor I agree. Castration for proved nonce's in my book. As for deportation, if they're born in the UK where do you deport them to?
If you have read the thread, I am sure you will see no one is trying to broad-brush all Muslims.
 

Ray

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Actually Pmaitra, I think the 'land of the free' where you live has far more racial tension than the UK. How do they describe Indians in America (not native Americans).
They however go after anyone who violates peace or threatens peace and books them.

No PC there.

Just one example:

Nigerian "underwear" bomber gets life in prison in U.S.
A federal judge on Thursday sentenced a Nigerian man to life in prison for trying to blow up a U.S. airliner bound for Detroit on Christmas Day in 2009 with a bomb hidden in his underwear.
Nigerian underwear bomber gets life in prison in U.S. | Reuters

Not like old Abu Hamza having a ball!
 

Ray

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Laudable explanation. However, what child abuse legislation was on the books in 1947?

Frankly I'm astounded at the stats provided. Every other one of you was abused as a child? That may explain some the of 'angry man' attitudes on here.
Please remember, we don't pose as the 'conscience keeper' of the world or the 'leader of world morality'.

We don't even claim to be a 'first world power'.

We are merely trying to reach acceptance as finding a place in the sun commensurate to our capabilities.

Therefore, to use you quaint expression, is but an impotent tirade over 'apples and oranges'!

No, haven't been abused, but you seem to be 'in the know' of being so! ;)

Thanks for sharing your experience!
 
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Ray

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In this case it was principally Pakistani's with one Afghan. When it's Catholic priests kiddy fiddling, should I say all white catholics are peado's? Should I establish that it is people of Irish, Italian, English first? Or should I just say that the nonces should be brought to book?
No you should say 'One Catholic Priest'. And not "Catholic Paedophile'!

Or one "Italian Catholic Priest', if the Paedo is an Italian.
 
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Yusuf

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Ok scalie I will actually tell you the reason why Indians will get worked up when a Paki (well accepted word here) does is called an Asian that sucks all of us in one bracket.

Because of the obvious historical reaons, calling an Indian a Paki is the worst kind of abuse that can be heaped on an Indian especially an Indian Muslim.

India is a racist country and that is accepted. You will find discussions about it over here. We are (i am at least) actually not worried about racism but about Indians being clubbed with Pakis. No Indian likes that.

Talking on police radio about a suspect being "Asian" looking is all right but then using the same term after knowing the full background of the suspect is something that will piss off an Indian. Imagine an Indian going to a hotel and a white woman there tells her daughter "hey come back don't go near that Asian". That is more racist.
 

Scalieback

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Merkel has had a huge election loss.

Cameron has also lost in bye elections.

Sarkozy has been ousted.

Berloscuni has bitten the dust inspite of his bungabunga parties!

Greece is as good as gone!

So Europe is on the roll.

European old guard is tottering.
Not really, more like the southern states are feeling the affect of the bust more than the northern states. Is this the end of the Euro? No. Will Greece pull out? Possibly. Will they pay back their debts? Who knows.
 

pmaitra

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Talking on police radio about a suspect being "Asian" looking is all right but then using the same term after knowing the full background of the suspect is something that will piss off an Indian.
x2

Golden Words!
 

Scalieback

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Ok scalie I will actually tell you the reason why Indians will get worked up when a Paki (well accepted word here) does is called an Asian that sucks all of us in one bracket.

Because of the obvious historical reaons, calling an Indian a Paki is the worst kind of abuse that can be heaped on an Indian especially an Indian Muslim.

India is a racist country and that is accepted. You will find discussions about it over here. We are (i am at least) actually not worried about racism but about Indians being clubbed with Pakis. No Indian likes that.

Talking on police radio about a suspect being "Asian" looking is all right but then using the same term after knowing the full background of the suspect is something that will piss off an Indian. Imagine an Indian going to a hotel and a white woman there tells her daughter "hey come back don't go near that Asian". That is more racist.
I agree. However, if you're the same race, would you feel happy if she said "don't go near that Indian" if it was Indians who had committed the crime? That she is tarring all the same?

She shouldn't say anything and the Pakistani community should be addressing problems within its community. Nonces should be treated as such.
 

pmaitra

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I agree. However, if you're the same race, would you feel happy if she said "don't go near that Indian" if it was Indians who had committed the crime? That she is tarring all the same?

She shouldn't say anything and the Pakistani community should be addressing problems within its community. Nonces should be treated as such.
Indians and Pakistanis are the same race anyway. Ask, and confirm from, those Pakistanis in the US who were masquerading as Indians after OBL's capture/death.
 

pmaitra

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So would being called French as I am English. :)
Ha ha ha.

Well, if I were to come across a 'passing Sassanach,' I would be at my liberty to assume that he is either English, Dutch, or German, but I could never be sure. ;)
 

Ray

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Scalie,

All said and done, I tip my hat to you.

Well done.

Good to see you fighting and giving it back.

That's spirit.

Even if ARRSE is no patch to your 'God for Harry, England and St George' spirit.

ARRSE is a wimpish cowardly crowd to include the Mods, who basically find strength in ganging up like the Skinheads.
 

Scalieback

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Here is an example of a police report:

Pretty straight forward.
It is, black male. So they should be looking for persons of Afro/American descent. How do they describe Indians?

Indians are usually stereotyped as working in engineering or science related disciplines. A stereotype does exist, but a positive one.
Yep, same as Brits having bad teeth. I watch Family Guy. I also thought they put them down as 7-11 workers. Ah Poo being?

Yes, there is an issue, but that is related to economics, and politics. It is about retaining jobs vs sending them abroad or companies moving out debate. However, interpersonal relations are great.

"Welcome to America," is something one gets to hear very often. Personal experience!

The USA is indeed very egalitarian.
It is. How do they describe Ah Poo from the Simpsons?
 

pmaitra

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Yes, ScalieBack is fighting back, and that is commendable.

The good thing is this is a proper debate, no abusing, no name calling, no ad hominems!

Keep it up everyone. :thumb:
 

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