Asian? Yes. How about Pakistani? Or is speaking the truth racism?

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by pmaitra, May 10, 2012.

  1. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Asian? Yes. How about Pakistani? Or is speaking the truth racism?

    This thread is a critique of the compulsive ambiguity practiced by the British Press when referring to crimes generally committed by people of Pakistani origin in the UK. Why do they not call a spade a spade?

    Take this statement for example: "Asian and white youths get into a brawl resulting in 4 dead."

    Now what is one supposed to interpret?

    • Who could be these Whites? English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, German, Dutch, French, Russian, et al.?
    • Who could be these Asians? Kazakhs, Mongols, Indians, Nepalese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, et al.?

    So what exactly happened?
    A bunch of Japanese got into a fight with a bunch of Germans?
    A bunch of Indians got into a fight with a bunch of Russians?
    A bunch of Kazakhs got into a fight with a bunch of French?
    <there are many possibilities>

    No. It almost certainly involves Pakistanis. Then why this gross generalization under the term Asian? Why can't we say instead that "two groups of homo sapiens got into a fight?" Or better, "two groups of living organisms of the animal kingdom got into a fight?" Or to make it embarrassingly naïve, "two groups of autonomous locomotory objects got into a fight?"

    Beats me!


    [​IMG]
    Asian? Yes. How about Pakistani? Or is speaking the truth racism?

    Asian sex gang: young girls betrayed by our fear of racism

    Rochdale grooming trial: Police accused of failing to investigate paedophile gang for fear of appearing racist

    [HR][/HR]

    My focus is on the British Press. Why are they using the term 'Asian?'
     
    sorcerer, Free Karma, chase and 9 others like this.
  2.  
  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Asian sex gang: young girls betrayed by our fear of racism

    Asian sex gang: young girls betrayed by our fear of racism

    Vulnerable teenagers were abandoned to their abusers because of our society’s nervous respect for their 'different' culture.

    By Allison Pearson | 8:57PM BST 09 May 2012

    Nine white men are found guilty of grooming young Asian girls, aged between 13 and 15, whom they picked up on the streets of London. The girls were lured with free fish and chips before being raped or pimped as prostitutes. One Asian girl from a children’s home was used for sex by 20 white men in one night. Police insist the crimes were not “racially motivated”.

    Imagine if that story were true. Would you really believe that race was not a factor in those hateful crimes? Do you think that, despite conclusive DNA evidence from a girl raped by two men, the police would have hesitated to press charges because the suspects were white and it could make things a bit sensitive in the white community? Would the Crown Prosecution Service have refused to prosecute, allowing the child-sex ring to flourish for three more anguished years?

    OK, now let’s try switching the ethnic identities round. Change the fish and chips to kebabs, London to Rochdale, white to Asian and vice versa and you have the case that ended yesterday at Liverpool Crown Court. Nine British Muslim men were jailed for a total of 77 years for rape and trafficking within the UK for sexual exploitation. The whole case made for disturbing reading, but somehow it was the tiny, paralysing details that made it real. Like the fact that one of the convicted men, father-of-five Abdul Rauf, was a religious studies teacher at a local mosque. Rauf asked his 15-year-old victim if she had any younger friends, and drove some of the girls to meet other men, who had sex with them despite knowing they were under-age.

    You will already have noticed a lot of embarrassed evasiveness about this disgusting case, particularly on the BBC. Turning a blind eye to appalling, illegal practices because “it’s their culture” is what has brought our country to this obscene pass. I have watched it unfolding since I did my teaching practice in 1982 in Southall, west London. I remember being encouraged to “teach the children their own culture” even as I found myself wondering why British Muslim girls couldn’t be taught the enlightened beliefs of the egalitarian land in which they lived.

    When it comes to women’s rights, not all cultures are created equal, particularly those whose attitudes are frozen some time in the mid-14th century. But we weren’t allowed to say that. Actually, we weren’t even allowed to think that. If you inhaled enough toleration of the intolerable, then you were well on your way to the opium of political correctness.

    All those years ago in the classroom, it was clear to me how dangerous it would be if we didn’t insist that newcomers signed up to our social norms. What was going to happen if we were nervous of offending them, not the other way around? This week, over Liverpool, the sky was dark not with rain clouds but with chickens coming home to roost.

    Rochdale girls who were living in what is imaginatively known as “care” were recruited into sexual factory farming by Muslim men described as “pure evil” by detectives. The 59-year-old ringleader was banned from court for calling the judge a “racist bastard”. His barrister explained that his client “had objected from the start to being tried by an all-white jury. He believes his convictions have nothing to do with justice but result from the faith and race of the defendants.” In other words, a racist who treats poor white girls as sub-human seriously believes it is he who is the victim of racism, when he is called to account for organising the gang-rape of under-age females. To be fair, it takes 40 years of well-intentioned multiculturalism to achieve that kind of moral mess.

    The layers of denial run so deep that it’s important to try to be clear where we can. First, it is an insult to Hindus, Sikhs and decent, integrated Muslims to classify those brutes under the catch-all title of “Asian males”. All but one are Pakistani Muslims who come from a patriarchal peasant culture that obviously regards young white British girls as easy meat. Those children were considered fair game for degrading sexual acts on an almost industrial scale. The men took a calculated gamble that no one gave a damn about the girls. And you know the worst thing? They were right.

    The number of adolescents “passed around” like a congenial hookah pipe by the gang is believed to be more than 50. There were 631 documented cases of abuse over a five-year period, and many will have been too afraid to tell their story. Some may not even be alive to tell it. We will never know the full extent of their pain.

    Nazir Afzal, Chief Crown Prosecutor for North West England, who at least had the guts to bring the case to court after social workers and the police turned away for fear of being seen as racist, admitted that “imported cultural baggage” played a role in the crimes. That’s the same baggage that brought quaint customs like forced marriages, honour killing and female genital mutilation to these isles.

    Crucially, Mr Afzal says that what defined the convicted men was their attitude to the opposite sex. “They think that women are some lesser beings. The availability of vulnerable young white girls is what has drawn men to them… These girls were on the streets at midnight. It made them easy prey for evil men.”

    So the case turns out to be a tale of two cultures. On the one hand, we have white girls, raised in a godless, under-parented, over-sexualised society, who have little respect for themselves or their bodies and – even worse – no adults taking responsibility. On the other, we have a different kind of “respect”, the warped creed of a sub-section of unreconstructed, brutally over-parenting men. Their own daughters and young female relatives must not be violated or they will lose their market value, so why not take out your sexual frustration on the despised native slappers instead? It’s as simple as that.

    It’s not just the Pakistani men who considered their prey to be beneath contempt. “I think the attitude of the local authorities for many years was that these chaotic girls were not held in very high regard,” explains Simon Danczuk, the MP for Rochdale, choosing his words carefully. “I don’t know if it’s political correctness, but the attitude was, 'These are the life choices the girls are making’.”

    Life choices? Dear God, they were raped for years. One girl left a letter for the staff at her children’s home saying she was being abused. It was ignored. So the poor kid wrote another. It was only when a teacher spotted that one pupil was pregnant and a suspicious number of Asian-looking men were picking her up at the school gate that the alarm was raised.

    I spoke to Mr Danczuk yesterday, and he strenuously disputes claims that this is a one-off case, or even a recent phenomenon. The grooming of white girls by a small sub-section of the Pakistani community was being discussed in Blackburn council 15 years ago. Recently, the MP was outraged when male relatives of the accused in a similar child-sex case came to his constituency surgery to ask for support. “They spoke about white women in an exceptionally derogatory way. I nearly threw them out.”

    While the majority of Asian men in Rochdale are “extremely respectful towards women”, Simon Danczuk laughs at the view of Keith Vaz that “this was not a race issue”. One can only marvel at the skill of the optician who continues to supply Mr Vaz, the chairman of the Commons’ home affairs committee, with spectacles of ever-rosier hue.

    Mr Vaz warned yesterday that blaming a particular race or religion for grooming young girls for sex “risks opening up a Pandora’s box over race relations”. If he would only take off his goggles for a minute he might spot the National Front supporters strutting their rancid stuff outside the Liverpool courtroom. The intimidation of two Asian barristers to the point where, shockingly, they withdrew from the case suggests that the contents of Pandora’s box are swarming all over the place.

    What a relief to hear Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, a moderate Muslim youth group, accusing Pakistani community elders of “burying their heads in the sand” over this poisonous problem. He welcomes police intervention and insists that race is “central to the actions” of the criminals. “They think that white teenage girls are worthless and can be abused without a second thought; it is this sort of behaviour that is bringing shame on our community.”

    By now, even the most trusting and generous-minded liberals must have woken up to the fact that our fear of being tarred as racist has allowed ugly practices and outmoded attitudes to flourish, hidden away behind a nervous respect for “difference”. Stymied by political correctness, social workers, carers, police, lawyers and council staff all failed to protect those young Rochdale girls.

    They were victims twice over. First, of the despicable men who traded and abused them, and second, of our well-meaning, foolish and deadly desire to avoid the issue of race at any cost. They deserved better.

    Source: Asian sex gang: young girls betrayed by our fear of racism - Telegraph
     
    panduranghari likes this.
  4. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,754
    Likes Received:
    3,273
    Location:
    Modindia
    You can't take out the racist out of a British.
     
    sorcerer, Adux and Aayush like this.
  5. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Police accused of failing to investigate paedophile gang for fear of appearing racist

    Rochdale grooming trial: Police accused of failing to investigate paedophile gang for fear of appearing racist

    Police and social workers were last night accused of failing to investigate an Asian paedophile gang for fear of being perceived as racist, allowing them to prey on up to 50 young white girls.

    By Nigel Bunyan | 10:00PM BST 08 May 2012

    The nine men from Rochdale were yesterday convicted of abusing five vulnerable teenagers after plying them with alcohol, food and small sums of money in return for sex.

    However, the true number of victims, who were "passed around" by the gang, is likely to be nearer to 50, police have admitted.

    Greater Manchester Police and the Crown Prosecution Service have now apologised after they failed to bring the case of the first victim - Girl A - to trial following her cry for help in August 2008.

    One 13 year-old victim became pregnant and had the child aborted while another was forced to have sex with 20 men in one night, Liverpool Crown Court heard.

    Complaints to social workers and the police were ignored because they were "petrified of being called racist", former Labour MP for Keighley Ann Cryer said.

    Mrs Cryer, who has campaigned to bring the issue of Asian sex gangs to light, said the girls had been "betrayed" and condemned to "untold misery" by the police and social services.

    "This is an absolute scandal. They were petrified of being called racist and so reverted to the default of political correctness," she said.

    "They had a greater fear of being perceived in that light than in dealing with the issues in front of them."

    Girl A told police that she had been raped and provided DNA evidence from her attacker, however the CPS twice decided not to prosecute him.

    The 15 year-old's abuse continued and at its height she was being driven to flats and houses to be raped by up to five men a night, four or five days a week. She was singled out because she was white, vulnerable and under-age.

    Her ordeal only ended when her teachers forced social workers to intervene after she fell pregnant and they became concerned by the number of Asian men picking her up from school.

    Girl A said that in a six-hour interview she gave police details about her abusers and where the attacks took place. Crucially, too, she handed officers underwear that proved she had been raped by two men in a single attack.

    "I hoped they were going to do something and it would stop," she said.

    "But it just carried on. It just started again with different men and more men this time, and that's when it started becoming up to five men a day".

    Kabeer Hassan, Abdul Aziz, Abdul Rauf, Mohammed Sajid, Adil Khan, Abdul Qayyum, Mohammed Amin, Hamid Safi and a 59-year-old man who cannot be named for legal reasons were yesterday found guilty of running a child exploitation ring at Liverpool Crown Court.

    Greater Manchester Police is now being investigated by the IPCC over the failings of its first investigation in 2008.

    When GMP did finally pass a file on Girls A's rape to the CPS the following year, a Crown lawyer decided not to charge anyone because he said she would not be a sufficiently credible witness to put before a jury. A second CPS lawyer backed that opinion.

    It was only after social workers notice an upsurge in cases of child grooming that police reinvestigated and made a series of arrests which led to yesterday's convictions.

    It can be reported that the trial was delayed by two weeks when two Asian barristers quit the case due to intimidation by far right groups outside Liverpool Crown Court.

    And a tweet from BNP leader Nick Griffin almost caused the trial to collapse when it led to allegations of the jury having a "far-right bias".

    Assistant Chief Constable Steve Heywood acknowledged that officers could have dealt with the case "better than we did".

    But he denied that the girl's complaints had been "brushed under the carpet" because officers were reluctant to confront the issue of race.

    "At the time we did what we thought was best," he said. "We have learned a lot of lessons.

    "The issue here is genuinely about vulnerability. It just happens that they are Asian men. In no way did we sweep it under the carpet."

    Steve Garner, head of children's services at Rochdale Council, denied the teenager had been let down by his department.

    "No," he said. "I think it's really important to remember that what we know now and what we knew in 2008 is very, very different and what we have done is put the lessons in place".

    Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk said: "What's become clear is that if police had acted seriously on these concerns in 2008 many of the victims of this appalling case would not have had to go through such horrific trauma.

    "It is simply unacceptable that these young women were let down in this way by people they should have been able to trust."

    Source: Rochdale grooming trial: Police accused of failing to investigate paedophile gang for fear of appearing racist - Telegraph
     
  6. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    PM, Ostrich in the sand approach by the British. Already London is like a magnet for jehadis and their police is not able to do anything.
     
  7. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Bangalore
    pakis deserve more Islam and UK deserves more pakis

    More power to both
     
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Niteshji,

    I see your point. Let the two of them get at each other. I have no problem staying away from a fight that ain't mine. Neither side is exactly a friend.

    However, it is not quite about Islam. Kazakhs are majority Muslims too. They don't get into such 'honourable' activities! Neither do the Malaysians. Or for that matter, Muslims from India. It is almost always about Pakistanis. Indeed, a land of pure sh1t! (pardon my French)

    My focus is on the British Press. Why are they using the term Asian?
     
    gaurav96, ejazr and Tolaha like this.
  9. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Pmaitra ji

    British always popped up pakis to show India in bad light, cos pakis are British creation to keep the great game going. Now pakis form a substantial part of voting population, they can not be targeted or else the senators will lose jobs who don't support them, that is reflected in media too.
     
    panduranghari and pmaitra like this.
  10. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Location:
    Delhi, India, India
    Either it is that Britain is full of p**sies now who can't call a spade a spade. Or they are too ashamed to oblige that the monster they created 65 years back is about to swallow their Capital.
    Hail England !! :mad2:
     
    rock127 and panduranghari like this.
  11. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    I ranted today morning to my receptionist and my secretary about this and I told her call these people PAKISTANIS. Though we look similar we are miles apart in terms of ideology.

    And both agree. Now I feel embarrassed for ranting.
     
    sob, nrj, Apollyon and 1 other person like this.
  12. Scalieback

    Scalieback Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    246
    Because, as explained a number of times, the UK has decided to categorise by ethnicity. Have a look at this:
    [​IMG]

    One of them is an Aghan as well. It's been debated at length in the UK and the general feeling it is culture rather than race or religion.

    Do you not have paedophiles in India?
     
    panduranghari and pmaitra like this.
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    [​IMG]

    Loved that part.

    There are paedophiles everywhere, including India.

    However, if, say, a group of Indians did something wrong, then it would be equally unfair to say 'an Asian gang did so and so ..."

    Better call a spade a spade.
     
    panduranghari likes this.
  14. Scalieback

    Scalieback Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    246
    I never designed it :) There's a whole host of ethnicity lists and there's also Police categorised ones as well for the Police National Computer. The problem is, as you and Ray have said; Indians and Pakistani's are the same race. Therefore, they are lumped together, rightly or wrongly.

    I was having that discussion with Yusuf. I genuinely cannot believe that India has no child abuse laws and according to a recent Indian TV programme, 52% of children have been abused. Frankly, that is astonishing ie one in two.

    Probably, but then in the UK you'd be keelhauled as a racist for saying it. BTW, one was an Afghan so they're lumped together.

    I call spade's digging implements personally ;)
     
  15. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,455
    Likes Received:
    898
    Location:
    visakhapatnam
    because they don't have the enough i.q ....

    heard they call all people with black hair as "Pakis"

    don't know if true. :(
     
  16. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    That's funny.
     
    LurkerBaba, sob and pmaitra like this.
  17. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,893
    Likes Received:
    3,688
    Location:
    Bengaluru
    Well, Pakistanis are giving a bad name to Indian Hindus, Indian Sikhs and Indian Muslims with their criminal behaviour. For 65 years they have been fed on a supremacist ideology of being `pak`/pure and all other kafirs inferiors. Which is why their soldiers were told during one of the wars `lunch in Jaipur and dinner in Delhi` or something to that effect and that `1 Pakistani = 10 Indians`. Which is why even little Bangladesh is pulling ahead of Pakistan in development. Pakistanis may be talented people and good human beings but until they rid themselves of their poisonous thinking, child rapists and criminals is what they will breed.
     
    pmaitra likes this.
  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,273
    Likes Received:
    11,279
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Scalie, I really do t understand why saying a Pakistani did it or Indian did it is racist.
     
  19. Scalieback

    Scalieback Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    246
    Not true, otherwise a lot of Irish people would be called 'Paki's'
     
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    :rofl:

    That was funny!
     
  21. Scalieback

    Scalieback Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    246
    As I responded to Ray, beware the liberal elite as India may in time go down this route.

    As one of them was Afghan, for a start we can't say they were all Pakistani's. The next lot up are again predominantly Pakistani, but this time there is a Black/Brit in there. I don't know what they're going to call them, Perhaps just paedo's or even better kiddie fiddlers?

    Imv, it probably took a lot of soul searching, hair tearing and discussions with the CRE to even put down the fact they are all Asian, knowing our current rules ;)
     
    sob and panduranghari like this.

Share This Page