'As a refugee living here, India's rising power is very reassuring'

Ray

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'As a refugee living here, India's rising power is very reassuring'

Tibetan poet and activist Tenzin Tsundue shot to fame when in 2002, he scaled 14 floors of Mumbai's Oberoi Towers - where the then Chinese PM Zhu Rongji was addressing Indian business magnates - to unfurl a Tibetan flag....

The recent Global Buddhist Conference attracted Chinese criticism with President Pratibha Patil and PM Manmohan Singh opting out apparently due to China's objections - your view?

The fact that India stood its ground in hosting the Buddhist congregation and also having the Dalai Lama as chief guest at the valedictory function is a matter of pride. Unlike the Beijing 2008 Olympics period, the Indian government this year is much more confident about not submitting under Chinese pressure. As a refugee living here in India, India's rising power is very reassuring.

But many are not reassured - more than 10 Tibetan monks have attempted self-immolation in the past one year. Do you see self-immolation as a legitimate form of protest?

Ever since the 2008 Tibetan uprising, the Chinese government has become insecure in its control over Tibet. Inter-national media and tourists cannot travel freely in Tibet, peoples' movement is curtailed. It is this draconian police rule that's suffocating the Tibetans, pushing them to self-immolation. These are desperate acts to protest against Chinese police brutality and demand freedom. Living in India, i have no moral right to question its legitimacy.

Meanwhile, how has the Dalai Lama's retirement from politics impacted the Tibetan movement?

The devolution of political power from the Dalai Lama should be looked at as an act of renunciation. The Dalai Lama's decision made the Tibetan people elect their own leadership and be accountable in all political matters. This is our answer to Chinese propaganda which says that exiled Tibetans only want to recreate the old feudal society. But more than that, we've had the success of 50 years of experimenting with democracy.

How do you view current Sino-Indian relations?

The 60-year relationship bet-ween India and China that started after the Chinese occupation of Tibet has been marked mostly by fear and suspicion earlier. It's now characterised by economic competition and misplaced diplomacy. One of the main issues is the 4,057-km border. India's claim to Arunachal Pradesh is based on the 1914 McMahon Treaty while China doesn't recognise this treaty.

When the basic approaches are different, a solution is unlikely to come by anytime soon. Today, India is under pressure because of China's humongous military build-up in Tibet, its control of the Himalayan rivers and China's instigation of Pakistan. Because of the friction, both countries are militarising the Himalayas from either side - unless Tibet is restored as the buffer zone as before, India and China are forever going to be at cold war.


However, is the 'Free Tibet' demand practical?

From India, we see only China's money and military might. We do not see the 80,000 protest incidents that rock China each year which are beaten down with brutality. And this is getting worse, so much that the Dalai Lama recently observed China's internal security budget is higher than its external defence budget, meaning they have more enemies on the inside than the outsidea¦their rigidity about control is pushing the country to the brink of an implosion.

'As a refugee living here, India's rising power is very reassuring' - The Times of India
This is what a prominent Tibetan refugee feels about the situation on the India - Tibet - China issue.

That China is insecure over Tibet, there is no doubt.

It is a revelation that China spends more money on Internal Security than on her external defence. This is quite telling about how China maintains her territorial integrity and internal 'peace'.

There is no doubt that of late the Indian Govt has been quite positive in responding to China's irrational demands. And that is a good sign where it is being conveyed to China that international relationship is based on reciprocity and mutual respect and not pure dadagiri.

On the issue of travel to and in Tibet, it is controlled.

All foreigners wanting to visit Tibet have to be a part of a 'tour group' (minimum 5 persons) and should have a permit from the Tibetan Tourism Bureau permit, Chinese insurance, a minimum tree day tour and also a return ticket to a choice of three desitinations (Katmandu, Chengdu, Golmund). Longer stay would mean paying Y 100 per day. A local guide is essential. The danger is that even if the guide is a Tibetan, the guide could be an agent or an informer of the Public Security Bureau.

There used to be buses to the Nepal border along the Friendship Highway to Zhangmu but it has been discontinued. Private agencies however advertise minibus tours to the border, which cost Y 250 to Y 350 for a two day trip.

Whatever, the situation in Tibet or even in China is not that rosy as is usually portrayed.

However, the US cutting China to size is playing a positive role in maintain peace and tranquillity around the Asia Pacific region.

That is a good sign.
 

pmaitra

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And this is getting worse, so much that the Dalai Lama recently observed China's internal security budget is higher than its external defence budget, meaning they have more enemies on the inside than the outsidea¦their rigidity about control is pushing the country to the brink of an implosion.
If this is true, then PRC will self-implode. This is lysosomic of regimes that do not enjoy the confidence of its own subjects.
 

warriorextreme

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china hides more that it shows....but world knows the truth already as to what china really is.
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Nagraj

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As much as an indian i feel the pain of tibetans...
i do think our rising powers won't be enough to free tibet.
and frankly in the present power dynamics it will be better if we only aim to get tibetans some limited freedom within chinese government.
 

thakur_ritesh

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However, is the 'Free Tibet' demand practical?

From India, we see only China's money and military might. We do not see the 80,000 protest incidents that rock China each year which are beaten down with brutality. And this is getting worse, so much that the Dalai Lama recently observed China's internal security budget is higher than its external defence budget, meaning they have more enemies on the inside than the outsidea¦their rigidity about control is pushing the country to the brink of an implosion.
well well, who needs external enemies with an internal situation like that.

some progress!
 

Ray

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China has to go on the overdrive to showcase engineering and technological marvels so as to divert the minds of the people from the reality and lull it with dreams!
 

tony4562

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On questions regarding sovereignty there is quite a consensus among chinese, so the number of protests or whatever internal problems China has have really little to do with the tibeten issue.
 

Tianshan

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protests are almost always about local issues like land grab or corruption.

in terms of china's territorial integrity, all of us are united.

If this is true, then PRC will self-implode. This is lysosomic of regimes that do not enjoy the confidence of its own subjects.
i wish you good luck in your hopes sir.
 

tony4562

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That article gives everyone here quite bit food for thought. How come the country dubbed by many here as 'country with no friends' attacts so many more foriegn visitors than (self-claimed) the world's largest democracy has. I can offer couple reason:

China offers a decent living whereas in India there is endless poverty, hunger, sadness and violence.

China's system is as it is whereas in India's case democracy only exists once every 4 years. People long have seen through this!

And lastly maybe

Foreigners can't stand the never-ending bragging and giggling by the indians about them being: 'the happiest people on the planet despite all this poverty', 'the standard bearer for freedom and democracy long mis-understood by the west', 'descendants from the aryans which makes them despite their appearance whiter than the whitest whites', etc, etc.
 

Bangalorean

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That article gives everyone here quite bit food for thought. How come the country dubbed by many here as 'country with no friends' attacts so many more foriegn visitors than (self-claimed) the world's largest democracy has. I can offer couple reason:

China offers a decent living whereas in India there is endless poverty, hunger, sadness and violence.
For someone who is born and brought up in the West, China is a pile of shit. Don't delude yourself. Your cities with their pollution, dirty practices, adulteration, etc., are enough to make anyone puke.

Foreigners can't stand the never-ending bragging and giggling by the indians about them being: 'the happiest people on the planet despite all this poverty', 'the standard bearer for freedom and democracy long mis-understood by the west', 'descendants from the aryans which makes them despite their appearance whiter than the whitest whites', etc, etc.
This is the seventh asinine comment you have made here, as far as I have seen. :frusty:

"Whiter than the whitest whites"? You brainwashed little Chinese man, this is something that your bosom fliends, the Pakis, think.

But then, being a Chinese brought up on a diet of thuggish CCP propaganda, you wouldn't know better.
 

agentperry

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time and propaganda will write the future.

moreover never in the history anyone had succeeded in keeping others under their control for long and forever. role reversal happens but time of occurance is dependant on many aspects, his holiness dalai lama retirement takes away some of the self-imposed restrictions on the buddhist people of both tibet under china and India in the matters of organizing protests, opposing and denying the rule of hans.

sudden radical and daring moves by buddhist liberators after the stepping down of his holiness are the indicators of drastic changes that awaits.

taking away the position of supreme rular of tibet from the religious leader separates the religion from the geo-political arena and now the tibet freedom struggle is a movement of the people of a community.

its now a political fight and not religious as religious freedom struggle are masses-intensive but not successful- check history
 

Dovah

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That article gives everyone here quite bit food for thought. How come the country dubbed by many here as 'country with no friends' attacts so many more foriegn visitors than (self-claimed) the world's largest democracy has. I can offer couple reason:
Perhaps its because the Middle Kingdom decided to sacrifice generations of its populace to slavery to create glossy shiny cities and fuel its economy?

China offers a decent living whereas in India there is endless poverty, hunger, sadness and violence.
Seriously? To a man from Japan, USA you offer a better standard of living?
The rich immigrants, the CEOs etc. can afford the same standard of living they do in China here in India, that poverty argument is so weak that it felt bullyish to even address it.

China's system is as it is whereas in India's case democracy only exists once every 4 years. People long have seen through this!
You don't get, do you?
Indian democracy is everywhere, when a newspaper exposes a scam, when we mock our politicians over net, when we protest against corruption at Ram Lila grounds its all democracy. Hard for a communist robot to understand who'd be run over by a tank if he so much speaks out against his "government".

Foreigners can't stand the never-ending bragging and giggling by the indians about them being: 'the happiest people on the planet despite all this poverty',
Maybe thats just you. Its not like every Indian you meet on the street would grab you and tell you how happy he is, if you're referring to the newspaper articles about it, it was all what people of different nationalities observed when they were here. Media isn't controlled everywhere you see.

'the standard bearer for freedom and democracy long mis-understood by the west',
Now you're just ranting.

descendants from the aryans
Funnily, it was the Britishers(yes the white guys) that gave this theory, most in India don't subscribe to it. Its better to do some homework before making a fool of oneself.

which makes them despite their appearance whiter than the whitest whites
Dude, Han Power!!!
 

niharjhatn

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Foreigners can't stand the never-ending bragging and giggling by the indians about them being: 'the happiest people on the planet despite all this poverty', 'the standard bearer for freedom and democracy long mis-understood by the west', 'descendants from the aryans which makes them despite their appearance whiter than the whitest whites', etc, etc.
Mate foreigners from Europe have been coming to India for over a millenia - India has exported its own culture around the world rather than succumb to foreign influence. And that truth reveals the same attractive power India has. India's own innate cultural security allows for others to feel comfortable - I daresay you ask the tibetan man how he feels.

Offer him the earth and the moon and the ferrari in every garage that the CCP offers every person in China, and be ready to be shocked by the answer.

You know the funniest thing I find about Chinese like you? That despite less than 60 years ago being in just a s*** state as India, their ego has swelled to proportions of the mongolian empire. Ask yourself this - given China is the current messiah of the world, why is there still so much emigration?

Don't expect you one-eyed patriot to understand though. Good luck, get well soon, stop inhabiting the forums of the nation you so despise :thumb:
 

agentperry

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That article gives everyone here quite bit food for thought. How come the country dubbed by many here as 'country with no friends' attacts so many more foriegn visitors than (self-claimed) the world's largest democracy has. I can offer couple reason:

China offers a decent living whereas in India there is endless poverty, hunger, sadness and violence.

China's system is as it is whereas in India's case democracy only exists once every 4 years. People long have seen through this!

And lastly maybe

Foreigners can't stand the never-ending bragging and giggling by the indians about them being: 'the happiest people on the planet despite all this poverty', 'the standard bearer for freedom and democracy long mis-understood by the west', 'descendants from the aryans which makes them despite their appearance whiter than the whitest whites', etc, etc.
how come you completely ignored millions of chinese poors? as per chinese govt the no of poors in china is 22% of the population. even if i completely forget about the fudging of figures by chinese govt then also this figure goes into millions.
china offers a good life style in cities, same is applicable with India and with pakistan too ( minus terror attacks). cities are much pampered places and real atrocities are committed on villagers, India has been democratic and thats why the exploitation of the rural masses after the draconian emergency rule which was on the line of chinese communist party functioning and organization is continuously declining, media can go and present a report on the problems they are facing and they are addressed, red-tapism takes time, not only in India but even in japan too. so let it take time, you wont see a micro-blogger exposing scams in India but surely in china.
the case is presented to the masses and to the govt in the same manner by the private watchdogs-media.

and moreover i prefer being hungry than consuming lead infested milk.
 

The Messiah

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India must help tabetian cause. It is not only in our strategic interest but also morally correct.
 

trackwhack

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India must help tabetian cause. It is not only in our strategic interest but also morally correct.
India must de-recognize Tibet as an autonomous part of China. India must be the first government to officially recognize the Tibetan Government in exile. India must introduce in the UN a motion to recognize the Tibetan government in exile.

This would be the first thing I would do if I were in the PM's shoes.
 

W.G.Ewald

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A local guide is essential. The danger is that even if the guide is a Tibetan, the guide could be an agent or an informer of the Public Security Bureau.
A local guide is essential. The guide will be an agent or an informer of the Public Security Bureau.

Sir, I took the liberty of a little edit.
 

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