Aryan Invasion Hypothesis

alphacentury

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http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatime...ravidians-have-wide-political-currency-today/

A south Indian politician recently accused a north Indian colleague of being an Aryan invader. I was tempted to dismiss it, at first, as another case of the usual politicking. Politicians, after all, will do what politicians do. Some condemn Turkic/Mongol invaders, others British invaders and then there are those who move on to Aryan invaders. One can certainly nurse grudges against assorted invaders; but it has nothing to do with Indians living in the 21st century. That’s obvious.

My surprise, though, emanated from this politician seemingly believing, without any doubt, in the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT). What is the AIT? We’ve been told that the Indus or Harappan civilisation was peopled by dark-skinned Dravidians (the name was a much later addition; initially the theory called them ‘indigenous people’) who were invaded by fair-skinned Aryans from Central Asia/Eastern Europe around 3,500 years ago.

The Aryans apparently massacred and then pushed the remaining Dravidians to the South, occupied the freed land and composed the Vedas along with a vast body of other Sanskrit texts. They also created the caste system to oppress the Dravidians. This theory was liked by British colonialists, who were struck by the “romantic” parallel of a fresh wave of new white-skinned invaders, repeating an ancient story.

AIT is largely based on linguistics, ie the study of languages. European scholars of the colonial era found striking similarities between Sanskrit and Iranian/European languages, suggesting a common source or intermingling. Many theories were propounded to explain this intriguing discovery. One was the AIT.

Another was the Out-of-India Theory, suggesting that people moved out from their homeland in India in a northwest direction and hence spread their language. There were other theories as well. Now, languages don’t have return addresses, so frankly, one can find enough arguments to support them all.

Linguistics is regarded as a science by some (many others may disagree), but it has inherent limitations as compared to other, more rigorous scientific disciplines. Theories based on linguistics are open to interpretations. Unfortunately, the debate in this area also takes place in a rather “mature” manner (sarcasm alert). Linguistics-driven historians, instead of conducting public and scholarly debates, indulge in name-calling. Insults are thrown freely. That’s unfortunate and childish.

Linguistics, due to its nature, may open the field to contradictory opinions, but fortunately there are other scientific disciplines to evaluate the AIT issue.

Archaeology examines history through site excavations and analysis of artefacts/physical remains. Invaders tend to leave a trail of destruction. Unfortunately for AIT proponents, there is little credible archaeological evidence for a violent invasion 3,500 years ago.

Seeing the sands shift, some proponents of AIT pirouetted and propounded a new Aryan Migration Theory (AMT), ie the so-called Aryans migrated peacefully into India and most of the so-called Dravidians of the heavily-populated Indus civilisation moved south. If this were true, there should have been a massive influx of Eastern Europeans/Central Asians into India at that time, right? Which would show up in genetic records?

Unfortunately for the (now) AMT proponents, genetic science disproves this hypothesis. Most major papers on Indian genetics published in scientific journals like Nature and American Journal of Human Genetics over the last few years agree on one thing: There was no significant addition to the Indian gene pool 3,500 years ago!

So, the AIT/AMT proponents ask us to believe that there was this small bunch of nomadic people called the Aryans who came to India 3,500 years ago. It was such a small band that they do not show up in any archaeological or genetic records at all! And this tiny group did not indulge in mass violence. But somehow, these mythical supermen managed to, peacefully, convince the far more populous, advanced and urbane Dravidians to migrate en masse to south India.

Presumably they debated the so-called Dravidians into abandoning their homes. And while doing so, these nomadic-barbarians also overturned the entire linguistic and cultural landscape of India. Moreover, this alleged foreign culture was so comprehensively absorbed that it survives to this day, thousands of years later, across the country.

Honestly, does this make any sense? Consider another paradox we are asked to believe: The so-called Dravidians who built the greatest civilisation of its time (called the Harappan/Indus civilisation today), left no literature at all. On the other hand, these nomadic-barbarian ‘Aryans’, with no settled homeland, created the largest body of literature, philosophical and technical texts of that era. Creating narratives of hi‘story’ to reconcile these huge contradictions leads to more contortions than a jalebi.

Paraphrasing the principle of Occam’s Razor, the simpler explanation is probably true. Simply put, there was probably no race called the Aryans. The Indus and Vedic cultures were likely one and the same. And most of us in India today, north or south, are descendants of that culture.

Our history books need to teach that there are serious and credible doubts among many historians (not just Indian, but global) about the Aryan Invasion Theory. These alternative theories, based on archaeology and genetics, which largely do not support AIT, must also be taught. Then let students make up their own minds.

I, for one, tend to agree with what a European friend remarked. That the Aryan Invasion Theory is the greatest piece of fiction cooked up by Europeans since the ethereal plays of Shakespeare. Perhaps it’s time to close the book
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Archaeology examines history through site excavations and analysis of artefacts/physical remains. Invaders tend to leave a trail of destruction. Unfortunately for AIT proponents, there is little credible archaeological evidence for a violent invasion 3,500 years ago.

Seeing the sands shift, some proponents of AIT pirouetted and propounded a new Aryan Migration Theory (AMT), ie the so-called Aryans migrated peacefully into India and most of the so-called Dravidians of the heavily-populated Indus civilisation moved south. If this were true, there should have been a massive influx of Eastern Europeans/Central Asians into India at that time, right? Which would show up in genetic records?

Unfortunately for the (now) AMT proponents, genetic science disproves this hypothesis. Most major papers on Indian genetics published in scientific journals like Nature and American Journal of Human Genetics over the last few years agree on one thing: There was no significant addition to the Indian gene pool 3,500 years ago!
Some proponents of AIT/AMT now even refuse to put a date on this invasion or migration!!
 

asingh10

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Rigveda indeed mention about Saraswati. One Rigvedic verse mention Saraswati river situated between Satluj and Yamuna while other Rigveda mentions about Saraswati river flowing from mountains to the sea and Ghaggar-Hakra river system matches this description and satellite mapping shows that it was indeed once a great river flowing from Lower Himalayas in Himachal Pradesh until Rann of Kutch almost parallel to Indus river to east of it. Vedic culture was first confined to Sapta Sindhu from there entire Indo-Gangetic plains and then to South India to accommodate all of India under a single civilization. Even during early phase of Hinduism, Indra was the most revered deity and while Shiva/Rudra worshiping was less popular however with the evolution of Hinduism, Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma became the supreme deity in Hinduism while worshiping Indra became less popular. Earlier Hinduism was also more about non-vegetarianism and animal sacrifice but with the evolution it became more centred around non-violence.
Interestingly, Saraswati river is also mentioned in Buddhist Texts. For e.g. Milindapanha written around 150BC.



https://books.google.com/books?id=241KAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171#v=onepage&q&f=false
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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How to call BS of leftist historians?

I will give just two examples:

1) There is no proof of invasion but AIT is still true
2) Muslims plundered India during middle ages but that is cultural syncretism and not invasion--thanks for biryani!!

So, the invasion(muslim) with proof becomes a non-invasion and taught as cultural enrichment and brotherhood, while the one without invasion(AIT) becomes invasion which again brought all culture to India. So, technically speaking, nothing worthwhile was developed in India and everything came from invaders!!
 

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Vedic Sanskrit older than Avesta, Baudhayana mentions westward migrations from India: Dr N Kazanas

By Nithin Sridhar
The Aryan Question: Part 4

The Aryan question has been hanging for many decades without any definite conclusion, but with a lot of controversies and politics being played around it. In the quest to bring out the various facets of the Aryan issue, NewsGram decided to interview various scholars who have worked extensively towards unraveling the mystery of Aryan issue. In this fourth instalment of ‘The Aryan Question’ series, NewsGram brings an exclusive interview with renowned Greek Indologist and author of many books on Aryan issue, Dr Nicholas Kazanas

Read more:
http://www.newsgram.com/vedic-sansk...-westward-migrations-from-india-dr-n-kazanas/
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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http://yugaparivartan.com/2016/01/23/aryan-invasion-theory-the-genetics-part-ii/

Aryan Invasion Theory(AIT) has been debunked by almost all of the recent datasets and studies on genetics, linguistics, mythology/religion and archaeology. Yet, this theory keeps cropping up in one form or other, specially in its milder form as the Aryan Migtration Theory(AMT), which is just the invasion theory rephrased as migration due to the lack of any archaeological evidence for any invasion in the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) at the 1500 BC, which was the time line given for the AIT originally. Most often, the proponents of AIT or its sneaky cousin AMT cite either out-dated studies or half truths to push their outdated ideas. The most blatant case of misinformation and half truths is from the genetics, which unlike linguistics is a hard science and have little room for guesswork. So, it is very important to look at current evidences from genetic theory.

One of the most often used justification for the AIT is that North Indians have genetics similar to the Europeans and hence this theory is true. The proponents even cite various genetics studies to show this point. However, this is a classic case of presenting half truths. This similarity is higher between North Indians and Europeans than between South Indians and Europeans. While this genetic similarity does show that Indians and Europeans are related, it fails to show how they are related i.e. it does not give information on whether Indians migrated to Europe or Europeans (as Aryans) migrated/invaded India. The proponents of AIT just push the invasion of Europeans/central Asians/Aryans into India as per their pre-conceived notion of Aryan Invasion/migration. Also, they are almost always silent on the time period of this invasion/migration.

But unfortunately for AIT proponents, deeper genetic studies can now give the direction of movement of the population as well as the time period for this mixing. The recent studies on the genetics of R1a1 Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNPs) in the Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA studies have helped understand the migration pattern of Humans during the late Holocene (i.e. end of ice age) period better. Y chromosome is found only among males and so it is inherited only by the sons of the group and hence it gives valuable insight into the patrilineal gene flow and migrations. On the other hand mitochondrial DNA is exclusively derived from the mother of the child (as opposed to the DNA/Chromosomes in the nucleus, which is derived from both father and mother) and so it helps understand the pattern of matrilineal gene flow and migration better. In layman term, by tracing the Y chromosomes, one can trace the fathers and grand fathers of the individual/group while tracing the mitochondrial DNA would help trace the DNA of the mother and grand mothers of the group.

Lucotte G. is one such major study on genetics which studies the distribution pattern of R1a1 haplotype in detail among the Europeans, Central Asians and Indians. Since R1a1 is common between the above three groups of population, it is used by most studies to study migration patterns in Eurasia. The study looks for prevalence of R1a1 and the frequency of variation in the R1a1 haplotype. The principle behind this study is that, newer groups of people would have far lower variations among them while older population groups would have higher frequency of variations. In other words, older populations would be lot less homogeneous than the newer populations. This is how modern humans’ ancestry is traced back to Africans, because Africans have the highest amount of genetic variations among the different groups of people today. So as per this link :

In the present study we have extended the field of detection of haplotype XI/haplogroup R1a subject to other countries previously uncovered in our preceding articles [9,10]: these countries are mainly Northern Europe, Georgia and Armenia, Near/Middle East, NorthAfrica, Iran and Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. We found high haplotype XI frequencies values in Afghanistan (18.4%), in Iran (26.5%), in Pakistan (28% and 30.4%) and in India; in this last subcontinent, the maximal value of 61.3% was found in Punjab. We have refound in our samples the clear distinction initially established by Pamjav et al. [21] between Indian Z93 populations and European Z280 populations: all our South Asian populations are Z93, while almost all our European populations are Z280. Datations show that the Z93 Pakistano-Indian group is the most ancient (about 15.5K years); in Europe, the Eastern populations are the most ancient (about 12.5K years) and the Northern ones the most recent (about 6.9K years).

So, the data from the study gives evidence that the R1a1 found in Punjab is the oldest while the central European haplotype is in the middle and Northern European R1a haplotype is the youngest. This pretty much buries the Aryan invasion/migration theories to the ground because if AIT/AMT was true, we would have seen from the genetic results that the Eastern European haplotype being the oldest and Indian haplotype being the youngest since AIT claims that Europeans (the parent population) came as invaders/migrants to North India as Aryans. It is also important to note the age of different population groups in the study. The study states that Central/Eastern European population is 12.5k years old while Northern Population is 6.9K years old. And the Punjabi/North Indian population is at least 15.5k years old.

The age component in these studies is the most important because as per Aryan Invasion/Migration theory, IVC was Dravidian and it ended because of Migration/Invasion by the Aryans around 1500 BC i.e. 4000 years ago. In the light of above mentioned and similar other genetic studies, the Aryan Invasion theory/Migration theory is off the mark by at least 10000 years. The significance of this fact is that it demolishes the argument of AIT peddlers who push the narrative that Hinduism is not native to India and came with the Aryan invaders. Since North Indian population is at least 15,000 years old, this claim falls flat on its face and make Hinduism indigenous to India and India alone.

The actual population composition of India

As per the latest genetic studies, population of India is derived from two separate population groups ANI (ancestral North indians) and ASI (Ancestral South Indians). The data suggests that ANI came to India at around 60000 BC and ASI came to India at around 45000 BC. But without falling for the labels, the ANI and ASI are not synonymous with Aryans and Dravidians as some the AMT/AIT enthusiasts try to make it up. North Indians on average have about 60% ANI genes and 40% ASI genes while South Indians on average have 40% ANI genes and 60% ASI genes. The South and North Indian names for ASI and ANI are given out respectively to denote that they contributed to South Indians and North Indians respectively more and not as a distinct North Indian Aryan or South Indian Dravidian entity. This is also the reason why the South Indians also share genetic similarity with the Europeans. Since North Indians share 40% genetic material with South Indians, and Europeans share 60-70% genetic similarity with North Indians, we find that Europeans have 20-30% genetic commonality with the South Indians. This also means that this mixture of North and South Indian ancestors must have happened before 12000 years (only then would the south Indians share the DNA of the Europeans) and not later because the Central Asian population which descended from North Indians migrating into Central Asia is at least 12.9k years old. This also puts rest to the theories that Aryan invaders became upper castes and the Dravidians became lower castes as Hinduism originated 5000 years back, almost 10000 years after the ANI and ASI had mixed.
 

punjab47

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@Sakal Gharelu Ustad this also coincides with ancient europe pagan oral history where they are sons of devi Danu consort of Rishi Kashyap.

About time it was put to rest, Sapt Sindhu Zindabaad.

Bharat Mata Ki Jai.
 

punjab47

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Can you give more details? I do not know this story.

Ireland called land of danavas most Russian rivers named after her:

Deneiper, Don, etc

Whole Proto Indo European is just fraud:

Look at Dyeus Pita Vs Zeus Patar & Jupiter



 
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cannonfodder

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I looked some material online talageri, kazanas, etc... I am very inclined towards OIT because we had population, civilization/culture and literature (looking at saraswati sites) to go outwards. AIT/AMT has no archaeological, genetics data point to support it until now.

It all depends on whether we can produce arch evidence and linguistics scholars to turn the tables. There will be lot of burnt asses if this comes out to be true.


 

A chauhan

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I don't understand one thing why do we use 'BC' and 'AD' we have our own calendars predating it. Why don't we say "BV" i.e. Before Vikramaditya and "AV" i.e. After Vikramaditya or any Indian calendar like that ???!!!
 

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@pmaitra
I know it is an old debate. But I want some clarification on few things.

You see, I am having this big fight with some language expert.
He is saying that sanskrit is originated from PIE language. I am getting some mixed feeling with the info he is providing.

Is there any language that has similar sound as AUM?
Aryans text have AUM in the starting of any written thing. I don't know any other language which follow this tradition.
Zoroastrianism which is very close to hinduism, don't have sound like aum in their yasnas.

Please refute my claim. I searched a lot of material and found no reference to aum in zoroastrian texts.

Any material on the further reading on aum and its relevance is greatly appreciated.
 

Razor

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@pmaitra
I know it is an old debate. But I want some clarification on few things.

You see, I am having this big fight with some language expert.
He is saying that sanskrit is originated from PIE language. I am getting some mixed feeling with the info he is providing.

Is there any language that has similar sound as AUM?
Aryans text have AUM in the starting of any written thing. I don't know any other language which follow this tradition.
Zoroastrianism which is very close to hinduism, don't have sound like aum in their yasnas.

Please refute my claim. I searched a lot of material and found no reference to aum in zoroastrian texts.

Any material on the further reading on aum and its relevance is greatly appreciated.
Relations between languages are determined not just by phonolgical comparision (as in the sound aum) but also syntax (sentence structure etc), vocabulary and morphology (change of linguistic units like morphemes etc) comparision.
Through such comparisions it is determined that samskrtam is part of the Indo-aryan languages. which are related to Iranic languages forming along with dardic languages the sub group Indo-Iranian languages of the language family Indo-European.
Sanskrit and other IA languages have also come in contact with austro-Asiatic language family (munda languages etc) and Dravidian language family and the IVC languages. These have influenced sanskrit and vice-versa.

Now, the PIE (proto indo-euro) language is a hypothetical language, which means there is no evidence to such a language, not yet. A proto-X language is usually constructed through comparative methods.

Also "refute my claim"

What claim are you talking about?
 

Ancient Indian

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Relations between languages are determined not just by phonolgical comparision (as in the sound aum) but also syntax (sentence structure etc), vocabulary and morphology (change of linguistic units like morphemes etc) comparision.
Through such comparisions it is determined that samskrtam is part of the Indo-aryan languages. which are related to Iranic languages forming along with dardic languages the sub group Indo-Iranian languages of the language family Indo-European.
Sanskrit and other IA languages have also come in contact with austro-Asiatic language family (munda languages etc) and Dravidian language family and the IVC languages. These have influenced sanskrit and vice-versa.

Now, the PIE (proto indo-euro) language is a hypothetical language, which means there is no evidence to such a language, not yet. A proto-X language is usually constructed through comparative methods.

Also "refute my claim"

What claim are you talking about?
So aum is just regular sound and no implication of anything.
Have you read any scriptures?

Also "refute my claim"
Zoroastrianism which is very close to hinduism, don't have sound like aum in their yasnas.
 

Ancient Indian

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@Razor
here is tree regarding PIE.
language.gif


If Iranian languages and Indic languages belongs to same branch, then they should have the word 'aum'.

But I found no aum in Iranian languages.

here we should understand that, there is no alternative to aum. Aryan wrote millions of slokas regarding aum.

Hope you got my dilemma.
 

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