Aryan Invasion Hypothesis

LurkerBaba

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Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study


Widely believed theory of Indo-Aryan invasion, often used to explain early settlements in the Indian subcontinent is a myth, a new study by Indian geneticists says.

The origin of genetic diversity found in South Asia is much older than 3,500 years when the Indo-Aryans were supposed to have migrated to India, a new study led by scientists from the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB), Hyderabad, says. The study appeared in American Journal of Human Genetics on Friday.

The theory of Indo-Aryan migration was proposed in mid-19th century by German linguist and Sanskrit scholar Max Muller.

He had suggested that 3,500 years ago, a dramatic migration of Indo-European speakers from Central Asia played a key role in shaping contemporary South Asian populations and this was responsible for introduction of the Indo-European language family and the caste system in India.

"Our study clearly shows that there was no genetic influx 3,500 years ago," said Dr Kumarasamy Thangaraj of CCMB, who led the research team, which included scientists from the University of Tartu, Estonia, Chettinad Academy of Research and Education, Chennai and Banaras Hindu University.

"It is high time we re-write India's prehistory based on scientific evidence," said Dr Lalji Singh, former director of CCMB. "There is no genetic evidence that Indo-Aryans invaded or migrated to India or even something such as Aryans existed". Singh, vice-chancellor of BHU, is a coauthor.

Researchers analysed some six lakh bits of genetic information in the form of SNPs drawn from DNA of over 1,300 individuals from 112 populations including 30 ethnic groups in India.


The comparison of this data with genetic data of other populations showed that South Asia harbours two major ancestry components. One is spread in populations of South and West Asia, Middle East, Near East and the Caucasus. The second component is more restricted to South Asia and accounts for more than 50 per cent of the ancestry in Indian populations.

"Both the ancestry components that dominate genetic variation in South Asia demonstrate much greater diversity than those that predominate West Eurasia. This is indicative of a more ancient demographic history and a higher long-term effective population size underlying South Asian genome variation compared to that of West Eurasia," researchers said.

"The genetic component which spread beyond India is significantly higher in India than in any other part of world. This implies that this genetic component originated in India and then spread to West Asia and Caucasus," said Gyaneshwar Chaube of University of Tartu, Estonia.

If any migration from Central Asia to South Asia took place, the study says, it should have introduced apparent signals of East Asian ancestry into India. "Because this ancestry component is absent from the region, we have to conclude that if such an event indeed took place, it occurred before the East Asian ancestry component reached central Asia,"
it said.
Read more at: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study : North News - India Today
 

maomao

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Excellent findings; however, earlier the imperialists and now leftists use Aryan invasion theory for their ulterior motives to justify Islamic invasions and settlements, but this theory has been debunked on many occasions. To our dismay, the academicians which have been employed by the GOI are hypocrite leftists and they still hang on to such false and preposterous theories, even though these theories have been proved false.
 

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Fundamental genomic unity of ethnic India is revealed by analysis of mitochondrial DNA
http://repository.ias.ac.in/21305/1/315.pdf

Excerpts:
Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) profiles of 23 ethnic populations of India drawn from diverse cultural, linguistic and geographical backgrounds are presented.
There is extensive sharing of a small number of mtDNA haplotypes, reconstructed on the basis of restriction fragment length polymorphisms, among the populations.
This indicates that Indian populations were founded by a small number of females, possibly arriving on one of the early waves of out-of-Africa migration of modern humans; ethnic differentiation occurred subsequently through demographic expansions and geographic dispersal.
The Asian-specific haplogroup M is in high frequency in most populations,especially tribal populations and Dravidian populations of southern India. Populations in which the frequencies of haplogroup M are relatively lower show higher frequencies of haplogroup U; such populations are primarily caste populations of northern India.
This finding is indicative of a higher Caucasoid admixture in northern Indian populations. By examining the sharing of haplotypes between Indian and south-east Asian populations, we have provided evidence that south-east Asia was peopled by two waves of migration, one originating in India and the other originating in southern China.
These findings have been examined and interpreted in the light of inferences derived from previous genomic and historical studies.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Tolaha

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"The genetic component which spread beyond India is significantly higher in India than in any other part of world. This implies that this genetic component originated in India and then spread to West Asia and Caucasus," said Gyaneshwar Chaube of University of Tartu, Estonia.
Does this particular line mean that instead of Aryans migrating to India, people had actually migrated from India!?
 

warriorextreme

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i hate when people call aryans as a race...arya means noble in sanskrit and so called western scholars with their half knowledge of sanskrit have destroyed our history,present and future by bringing up this theory..
undefined​
 

Virendra

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Does this particular line mean that instead of Aryans migrating to India, people had actually migrated from India!?
Yes that is the more probable scenario.
Genetic research indicates towards the same:
Indian biologist, Sanghamitra Sahoo, headed eleven colleagues, including T. Kivisild and V. K. Kashyap, for a study of the Y-DNA of 936 samples covering 77 Indian populations, 32 of them tribes.18 The authors left no room for doubt:
"The sharing of some Y-chromosomal haplogroups between Indian and Central Asian populations is most parsimoniously explained by a deep, common ancestry between the two regions, with diffusion of some Indian-specific lineages northward."

So the southward gene flow that had been imprinted on our minds for two centuries was wrong, after all: the flow was out of, not into, India. The authors continue:
"The Y-chromosomal data consistently suggest a largely South Asian origin for Indian caste communities and therefore argue against any major influx, from regions north and west of India, of people associated either with the development of agriculture or the spread of the Indo-Aryan language family."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How did the complete stranger aryans wandering from thousands of miles away find the only pass through Indus mountain range into north west India? Lets assume they did some how.
Now if they were Aryans they would have bought their language with them - Sanskrit. But the script of Sanskrit is nowhere to be found in their native land from where a part of them came. Not even a whisper.
Lets imagine for a moment that they bought Sanskrit without scripts and started to write in India only, attain new knowledge in India only and write enormous and sophisticated literature in India.
In all their enormous world class literature do the Aryans even hint about their native Central Asian root from where they branched out. There is absolutely nothing. Did they forget ?? :shocked:
Now the so called linguistic affinity would have been ratified by Aryans somewhere in their text (vedas)?
At no point they mention of an Indo European family of languages including anything remotely Celtic, Germanic or Latin. Again ... :shocked:

i hate when people call aryans as a race...arya means noble in sanskrit and so called western scholars with their half knowledge of sanskrit have destroyed our history,present and future by bringing up this theory..
undefined​
Aryans are a people who wrote and spoke Sanskrit. There is no evidence yet to confirm them as one race. So they can be defined linguistically but not racially. Race theories are a tricky affair.

Regards,
Virendra
 
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niharjhatn

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Does this particular line mean that instead of Aryans migrating to India, people had actually migrated from India!?
Its not as outlandish as it sounds....
Out of India theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course this has been completely marginilized, and instead a hypothetical proto-Indo-European peoples inhabiting the hills of Kazakhstan, due to the first domestication of the horse being postulated as being there:
Were Horses First Domesticated In Kazakhstan?
And is the current model accepted by western scholars.
Earlier Date Suggested for Horse Domestication - NYTimes.com

To me, it is just another attempt at their distancing of the Indus Valley Civilization + India today. As Indian culture today has been hugely shaped by events/writings after the IVC, and especially the Vedas, make special mention of horses (compared to in IVC times where horses were not present), these crackheads believe that subsequent invasion DID occur, and hence sanskrit + other achievements of ancient india were not really "indian", and rather born out of the invading peoples.

I just see it as colonialism + imperialism in new light. Along with their pathetic attempts at suggesting Vikings were among the first to colonize New Zealand before the Maori invaded from Polynesia.
 

civfanatic

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I just see it as colonialism + imperialism in new light. Along with their pathetic attempts at suggesting Vikings were among the first to colonize New Zealand before the Maori invaded from Polynesia.
WTF! Do people actually believe this? :confused:
 

HeinzGud

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The Aryan - Dravidian Controversy

The Aryan-Dravidian Controversy

By David Frawley


The British ruled India, as they did other lands, by a divide-and-conquer strategy. They promoted religious, ethnic and cultural divisions among their colonies to keep them under control. Unfortunately some of these policies also entered into the intellectual realm. The same simplistic and divisive ideas that were used for interpreting the culture and history of India. Regrettably many Hindus have come to believe these ideas, even though a deeper examination reveals they may have no real objective or scientific basis.

One of these ideas is that India is a land of two races - the lighter- skinned Aryans and the darker-skinned Dravidians - and that the Dravidians were the original inhabitants of India whom the invading Aryans conquered and dominated. From this came the additional idea that much of what we call Hindu culture was in fact Dravidian, and later borrowed by Aryans who, however, never gave the Dravidians proper credit for it. This idea has been used to turn the people of south India against the people of north India, as if the southerners were a different race.


Racial Theories

The Nineteenth century was the era of Europeans imperialism. Many Europeans did in fact believe that they belonged to a superior race and that their religion, Christianity, was a superior religion and all other religions were barbaric, particularly a religion like Hinduism which uses many idols. The Europeans felt that it was their duty to convert non-Christians, sometimes even if it required intimidation, force or bribery.

Europeans thinkers of the era were dominated by a racial theory of man, which was interpreted primarily in terms of color. They saw themselves as belonging to a superior 'white' or Caucasian race. They had enslaved the Negroid or 'black' race. As Hindus were also dark or 'colored', they were similarly deemed inferior. The British thus, not surprisingly, looked upon the culture of India in a similar way as having been a land of a light-skinned or Aryan race (the north Indians), ruling a dark or Dravidian race (the south Indians).


About this time in history the similarities betweeen Indo-European languages also became evident. Sanskrit and the languages of North India were found to be relatives of the languages of Europe, while the Dravidian languages of south India were found to be another language family. By the racial theory, Europeans natuarally felt that the original speakers of any root Indo-European language must have been 'white', as they were not prepared to recognize that their languages could have been derived from the darker-skinned Hindus. As all Hindus were dark compared to the Europeans, it was assumed that the original white Indo-European invadors of India must have been assimilated by the dark indigenous population, though they left their mark more on north India where people have a lighter complexion.

Though the Nazis later took this idea of a white Aryan superior race to its extreme of brutality, they did not invent the idea, nor were they the only ones to use it for purposes of exploitation. They took what was a common idea of nineteenth and early twentieth century Europe, which many other Europeans shared. They perverted this idea further, but the distortion of it was already the basis of much exploitation and misunderstanding.

Racial Interpretation of Vedas

Europeans Vedic interpreters used this same racial idea to explain the Vedas. The Vedas speak of a battle between light and darkness. This was turned into a war between light skinned Aryans and dark skinned Dravidians. Such so-called scholars did not bother to examine the fact that most religions and mythologies including those of the ancient American Indians, Egyptians, Greeks and Persians have the idea of such a battle between light and darkness (which is the symbolic conflict between truth and falsehood), but we do not interpret their statements racially. In short, the Europeans projected racism into the history of India, and accused the Hindus of the very racism that they themselves were using to dominate the Hindus.


European scholars also pointed out that caste in India was originally defined by color. Brahmins were said to be white, Kshatriyas red, Vaishyas yellow, and Shudras black. Hence the Brahmins were said to have been originally the white Aryans and the Dravidians the dark Shudras. However, what these colors refer to is the gunas or qualities of each class. White is the color of purity (sattvaguna), dark that of impurity (tamoguna), red the color of action (rajoguna), and yellow the color of trade (also rajoguna). To turn this into races is simplistic and incorrect. Where is the red race and where is the yellow race in India? And when have the Kshatriyas been a red race and the Vaishyas as yellow race?

The racial idea reached yet more ridiculous proportions. Vedic passages speaking of their enemies (mainly demons) as without nose (a-nasa), were interpreted as a racial slur against the snub-nosed Dravidians. Now Dravidians are not snub-nosed or low nosed people, as anyone can see by examining their facial features. And the Vedic demons are also described as footless (a-pada). Where is such a footless and noseless race and what does this have to do with the Dravidians? Moreover Vedic gods like Agni (fire) are described as footless and headless. Where are such headless and footless Aryans? Yet such 'scholar- ship' can be found in prominent Western books on the history of India, some published in India and used in schools in India to the present day.

This idea was taken further and Hindu gods like Krishna, whose name means dark, or Shiva who is portrayed as dark, were said to have originally been Dravidian gods taken over by the invading Aryans (under the simplistic idea that Dravidians as dark-skinned people must have worshipped dark colored gods). Yet Krishna and Shiva are not black but dark blue. Where is such a dark blue race? Moreover the different Hindu gods, like the classes of Manu, have diffe- rent colors relative to their qualities. Lakshmi is portrayed as pink, Saras- wati as white, Kali as blue-black, or Yama, the God of death, as green. Where have such races been in India or elsewhere?


In a similar light, some scholars pointed out that Vedic gods like Savitar have golden hair and golden skin, thus showing blond and fair-skinned people living in ancient India. However, Savitar is a sun-god and sun-god are usually gold in color, as has been the case of the ancient Egyptian, Mayan, and Inca and other sun-gods. Who has a black or blue sun-god? This is from the simple fact that the sun has a golden color. What does this have to do with race? And why should it be racial statement in the Vedas but not elsewhere?

The Term Aryan

A number of European scholars of the 19th century, such as Max Muller, did state that Aryan is not a racial term and there is no evidence that it ever was so used in the Vedas, but their views on this were largely ignored. We should clearly note that there is no place in Hindu literature wherein Aryan has ever been equated with a race or with a particular set of physical charac- teristics. The term Arya means "noble" or "spiritual", and has been so used by Buddhists, Jains and Zoroastrians as well as Hindus. Religions that have called themselves Aryan, like all of these, have had members of many different races. Race was never a bar for anyone joining some form of the Arya Dharma or teaching of noble people.


Aryan is a term similar in meaning to the Sanskrit word Sri, an epithet of respect. We could equate it with the English word Sir. We cannot imagine that a race of men named sir took over England in the Middle Ages and dominated a different race because most of the people in power in the country were called sir. Yet this is the kind of thinking that was superimposed upon the history of India.

New Evidence on the Indus Culture

The Indus Civilization - the ancient urban culture of north India in the third millenniem BC - has been interpreted as Dravidian or non-Aryan culture. Though this has never been proved, it has been taken by many people to be a fact. However, new archaelogiocal evidence shows that the so-called Indus culture was a Vedic culture, centered not on the Indus but on the banks of the Saraswati river of Vedic fame (the culture should be renamed not the Indus but the "Saraswati Culture"), and that its language was also related to Sanskrit. The ancient Saraswati dried up around 1900 BC. Hence the Vedic texts that speaks so eloquently of this river must predate this period.


The racial types found in the Indus civilization are now found to have been generally the same as those of north India today, and that there is no evidence of any significant intrusive population into India in the Indus or post-Indus era.

This new information tends to either dismiss the Aryan invasion thoery or to place it back at such an early point in history (before 3000 BC or even 6000 BC), that it has little bearing on what we know as the culture of India.

Aryan and Dravidian Races

The idea of Aryan and Dravidian races is the product of an unscientific, culturally biased form of thinking that saw race in terms of color. There are scientifically speaking, no such things as Aryan or Dravidian races. The three primary races are Caucasian, the Mangolian and the Negroid. Both the Aryans and Dravidians are related branches of the Caucasian race generally placed in the same Mediterranean sub-branch. The difference between the so-called Aryans of the north and Dravidians of the south is not a racial division. Biologically bo th the north and south Indians are of the same Caucasian race, only when closer to the equator the skin becomes darker, and under the influence of constant heat the bodily frame tends to become a little smaller. While we can speak of some racial differences between north and south Indian people, they are only secondary.

For example, if we take a typical person from Punjab, another from Maharash- tra, and a third from Tamilnadu we will find that the Maharashtrians generally fall in between the other two in terms of build and skin color. We see a gradual shift of characteristics from north to south, but no real different race. An Aryan and Dravidian race in India is no more real than a north and a south European race. Those who use such terms are misusing language. We would just as well place the blond Swede of Europe in a different race from the darker haired and skinned person of southern Italy.

Nor is the Caucasian race the "white" race. Caucasians can be of any color from pure white to almost pure black, with every shade of brown in between. The predominent Caucasian type found in the world is not the blond-blue-eyes northern European but the black hair, brown-eyed darker skinned Mediterranean type that we find from southern Europe to north India. Similarly the Mongolian race is not yellow. Many Chinese have skin whiter than many so-called Cauca- sians. In fact of all the races, the Caucasian is the most variable in its skin color. Yet many identification forms that people fill out today in the world still define race in terms of color.

North and South Indian Religions

Scholars dominated by the Aryan Dravidian racial idea have tried to make some Hindu gods Dravidian and other gods Aryan, even though there has been no such division within Hindu culture. This is based upon a superficial identifi- cation of deities with color i.e. Krishna as black and therefore Dravidian, which we have already shown the incorrectness of. In the Mahabharat, Krishna traces his lineage through the Vedic line of the Yadus, a famous Aryan people of the north and west of India, and there are instances as far back as the Rig Veda of seers whose names meant dark (like Krishna Angiras or Shyava Atreya).

Others say that Shiva is a Dravidian god because Shaivism is more prominent in south than in north India. However, the most sacred sites of Shiva are Kailash in Tibet, Kashmir, and the city of Varanasi in the north. There never was any limitation of the worship of Shiva to one part of India.


Shiva is also said not to be a Vedic god because he is not prominent in the Rig Veda, the oldest Vedic text, where deities like Indra, Agni and Soma are more prevalent than Rudra (the Vedic form of Shiva). However, Rudra-Shiva is dominent in the Atharva and Yajur Vedas, as well as the Brahmanas, which are also very old Vedic texts. And Vedic gods like Indra and Agni are often identi- fied with Rudra and have many similar characteristics (Indra as the dancer, the destroyer of the cities, and the Lord of power, for example). While some differences in nomenclature do exist between Vedic and Shaivite or Vedic and any other later teachings like the Vaishnava or Shakta - and we would expect a religion to undergo some development through time - there is nothing to show any division between Vedic and Shaivite traditions, and certainly nothing to show that it is a racial division. Shiva in fact is the deity most associated with Vedic ritual and fire offerings. He is adorned with the ashes, the bhasma, of the Vedic fire.


Early investigators also thought they saw a Shaivite element in the so-call ed Dravidian Indus Valey civilization, with the existence of Shivalinga like sacred objects, and seals resembling Shiva. However, further examination has also found large numbers of Vedic like fire-altars replete with all the tradi- tional offers as found in the Hindu Brahmanas, thus again refuting such simplistic divisions. The religion of the Indus (Saraswati) culture appears to include many Vedic as well as Puranic elements.


Some hold that Shaivism is a south Indian religion and the Vedic religion is north Indian. However, the greatest supporter of Vedanta, Shankaracharya, was a Dravidian Shaivite from Kerala. Meanwhile many south Indian kings have been Vaishnavites or worshippers of Vishnu (who is by the same confused logic considered to be a north Indian god). In short there is no real division of India into such rigid compartments as north and south Indian religions, though naturally regional variations do exist.

Aryan and Dravidian Languages

The Indo-European languages and the Dravidian do have important differences. Their ways of developing words and grammer are different. However, it is a misnomer to call all Indo-European languages Aryan. The Sanskrit term Aryan would not apply to European languages, which are materialistic in orientation, bacause Aryan in Sanskrit means spiritual. When the term Aryan is used as indicating certain languages, the term is being used in a Western or European sense that we should remember is quite apart from its traditional Sanskrit meaning, and implies a racial bias that the Sanskrit term does not have.

We can speak of Indo-European and Dravidian languages, but this does not necessarily mean that Aryan and Dravidian must differ in culture, race or religion. The Hungarians and Finns of Europe are of a different language group than the other Europeans, but we do not speak of them as of a Finnish race, or the Finns as being non-Europeans, nor do we consider that their religious beliefs must therefore be unrelated to those of the rest of Europe.

Even though Dravidian languages are based on a different model than Sanskrit there are thirty to seventy per cent Sanskrit words in south Indian languages like Telugu and Tamil, which is much higher percentage than north Indian languages like Hindi. In addition both north and south Indian languages have a similar construction and phraseology that links them close together, which European languages often do not share. This has caused some linguists even to propose that Hindi was a Dravidian language. In short, the language compart- ments, like the racial ones, are not as rigid as has been thought.

In fact if we examine the oldest Vedic Sanskrit, we find similar sounds to Dravidian languages (the cerebral letters, for example), which are not present in other Indo-European tongues. This shows either that there were already Drvidians in the same region as the Vedic people, and part of the same culture with them, or that Dravidian languages could also have been early off-shoots of Sanskrit, which was the theory of the modern rishi, Sri Aurobindo. In addition the traditional inventor of the Dravidian languages was said to have been none other than Agastya, one of the most important rishis of the Rig Veda, the oldest Sanskrit text.

Dravidians in Vedic/Puranic Lore

Some Vedic texts, like the Aitareya Brahmana or Manu Samhita, have looked at the Dravidians as people outside of the Vedic culture. However, they do not look at them as indigenous or different people but as fallen descendants of Vedic kings, notably Vishwamitra. These same texts look upon some people of north India, including some groups from Bengal, as also outside of Vedic culture, even though such people were Indo-European in language.

Other texts like the Ramayana portray the Dravidians, the inhabitants of Kishkindha (modern Karnataka), as allies of Aryan kings like Rama. The Vedic rishi Agastya is also often portrayed as one of the progenitors of the Dravid- ian peoples. Hence there appears to have been periods in history when the Dravidians or some portion of them were not looked on with favour by some followers of Vedic culture, but this was largely temporary.


If we look through the history of India, there has been some time when almost every part of India has been dominated for a period by unorthodox traditions like Buddhist, Jain or Persian (Zoroastrian), not to mention outside religions like Islam or Christianity, or dominated by other foreign conquerors, like the Greeks, the Scythians (Shakas) or the Huns. That Gujarat was a once suspect land to Vedic people when it was under Jain domination does not cause us to turn the Gujaratis into another race or religion. That something similar happened to the Dravidians at some point in history does not require making something permanently non-Aryan about them. In the history of Europe for example, that Austria once went through a protestant phase, does not cause modern Austrians to consider that they cannot be Catholics.

The kings of south India, like the Chola and Pandya dynsties, relate their lineages back to Manu. The Matsya Purana moreover makes Manu, the progenitor of all the Aryas, originally a south Indian king, Satyavrata. Hence there are not only traditions that make the Dravidians descendants of Vedic rishis and kings, but those that make the Aryans of north India descendants of Dravidian kings. The two cultures are so intimately related that it is difficult to say which came first. Any differences between them appear to be secondary, and nothing like the great racial divide that the Aryan-Dravidian idea has promoted.

Dravidians as Preservers of Vedic Culture

Through the long and cruel Islamic assault on India, south India became the land of refuge for Vedic culture, and to a great extent remains so to the present day. The best Vedic chanting, rituals and other traditions are preser- ved in south India. It is ironic therefore that the best preservers of Aryan culture in India have been branded as non-Aryan. This again was not something part of the Aryan tradition of India, as part of the misinterpretation of the term Aryan fostered by European thought which often had a political or religi- ous bias, and which led to the Nazis. To equate such racism and violence with the Vedic and Hindu religion, the least aggressive of all religions, is a rather sad thing, not to say very questionable scholarship.

Dravidians do not have to feel that Vedic culture is any more foreign to them than it is to the people of north India. They need not feel that they are racially different than the people of the north. They need not feel that they are losing their culture by using Sanskrit. Nor need they feel that they have to assert themselves against north India or Vedic culture to protect their real heritage.


Vedic and Hindu culture has never suppressed indigenous cultures or been opposed to cultral variations, as have the monolithic conversion religions of Christianity and Islam. The Vedic rishis and yogis encouraged the develop- ment of local traditions. They established sacred places in all the regions in which their culture spread. They did not make everyone have to visit a single holy place like Meca, Rome or Jerusalem. Nor did they find local or tribal deities as something to be eliminated as heathen or pagan. They respected the common human aspiration for the Divine that we find in all cultures and encouraged diversity and uniqueness in our approach to it.


Meanwhile the people of north India also need not take this north-south division as something fundamental. It is not a racial difference that makes the skin of south Indians darker but merely the effect of climate. Any Caucasian race group living in the tropics for some centuries or millennia would eventually turn dark. And whatever color a person's skin may be has nothing to do with their true nature according to the Vedas that see the same Self or Atman in all.

It is also not necessary to turn various Vedic gods into Dravidian gods to give the Dravidians equality with the so-called Aryans in terms of the numbers or antiquity of their gods. This only gives credence to what is superficial distinction in the first place. What is necessary is to assert what is truly Aryan in the culture of India, north or south, which is high or spiritual values in character and action. These occur not only in the Vedas but also the Agamas and other scriptures within the greater tradition.

The Aryans and Dravidians are part of the came culture and we need not speak of them as separate. Dividing them and placing them at odds with each other serves the interests of neither but only serves to damage their common culture (which is what most of those who propound these ideas are often seek- ing). Perhaps the saddest thing is that modern Indian politicians have also used this division to promote their own ambitions, though it is harmful to the unity of the country.

The Aryan-Dravidian Controversy




 
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LurkerBaba

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In Pragati: An Outdated Syllabus | varnam


Walt Disney's blockbuster film Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time saw actor Jake Gyllenhaal playing an Iranian prince. Many Iranians were pleased that a fair-skinned actor played the role because it accurately represented how "Aryan" Iranians looked. In Iran, Aryan ancestry is a non-issue, but in India it is a matter of angry controversy, a fact that has long bothered scholars in Western universities. In his course, "History of Iran to the Safavid Period," Richard W Bulliet, an Iranian specialist at Columbia University, ridicules those who oppose the Aryan Invasion Theory and informs students that Indians believe the theory's proponents are conspirators working at the behest of the CIA, who want to portray India as a wimpish state; he specifically mentions followers of the BJP as belonging to this group. In his first lecture, he discusses similarities between Old Iranian and Vedic and their relation to the Indo-European languages. In his view, this similarity suggests invasion, and this invasion theory is supported not just by philologists, but also by archaeologists and historians. Similarly, in a course on Indian history taught last year at the University of California, Los Angeles, Vinay Lal lectured about concepts like "subdued snub-nosed and dark-skinned people known as the Dasas" and Aryan attacks on fortified settlements on the subcontinent.

In Iran, the external Aryan ancestry is a non-issue, but in India it is a matter of angry controversy. The fact that it is a source of controversy in India has been bothering scholars in Western universities. In his course, History of Iran to the Safavid Period, Prof. Richard W. Bulliet, an Iranian specialist at Columbia University ridicules the people who oppose Aryan invasion theory and tells students that Indians believe that proponents of the Aryan Invasion Theory are members of CIA who want to portray India as a wimpish state; he specifically mentions members of BJP as belonging to this group. In the first lecture he mentions the similarities between Old Iranian and Vedic and their relation to the Indo-European languages. For him, this similarity indicates invasion, and this invasion theory is supported not just by philologists, but also by archaeologists and historians. This Grand Canyon wide gap between scholarly consensus and what is being taught in American universities is not surprising. Last Fall, in a course titled History of India, at University of California, Los Angeles, Prof. Vinay Lal lectured about rejected 19th century racist concepts like "subdued snub-nosed and dark skinned people known as the Dasas" and how forts and citadels were attacked by the invading Aryans.
These professors are wrong — about the Aryan Invasion Theory, about race, about the people who dispute it and the reason they dispute it. Though nationalism and sometimes Hindu nationalism is blamed, the reason why Indians are suspicious of colonial theories will become obvious as we look at an example where "scientific" European minds applied pseudoscience and divided the Indian population.
First, let us look at the Aryan Invasion Theory. In his book The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate (2004), Prof. Edwin Bryant who looks at both sides of the Aryan debate concludes that, "there is general consensus among South Asian archaeologists that, as far as archaeological record is concerned, clear, unambiguous evidence of invading or immigrating Aryans themselves is nowhere to be found either in central Asia or in the Indian subcontinent." Romila Thapar writes in Early India: From the origins to the AD 1300 (1995), that, "The theory of an Aryan invasion no longer has credence."


Second, when it is mentioned that only members of the BJP are against the Invasion Theory, it is incorrect. Edwin Bryant is not an Indian; Romila Thapar is an antagonist of Hindu Nationalists. Truth is the casualty when he says that opponents of Aryan Invasion Theory have been ignoring archaeological evidence for Prof. Bryant's survey shows that it is the lack of archaeological evidence, among other things, which prompted many historians to re-think. Instead of the invasion theory, many scholars now believe in a migration theory.


Finally, Prof. Bulliet says that opponents of the invasion might take refuge in the writings of his colleague Edward Said, the author of the seminal book Orientalism. On this point, he is absolutely right. It was the colonial historian who gave us the concept of race. 19th century Europe was the center of racial studies; scientists measured the volume of the skull for various races and found that the white race was the largest and hence of superior intellect.


From 1891, the British official, Herbert H. Risley defined 2378 castes as belonging to 43 races on the basis of their nasal index. Also, Indo-European, Dravidian, Austro-Asiatic, Tibeto-Burman linguistic groups were identified as different races with Indo-European speakers or Aryans at the top of the tree. Based on this mythology, the skeletons found in Mohenjo-daro were classified as belonging to various races, mostly non-Aryan. Coming to the Vedic texts, a racial interpretation was assigned to various passages. The dark skinned and nose-less Dasyu was considered of a different race than the fair and high-nosed Aryan. This racial identification was objected to by Indian scholars like Srinivas Iyengar as early as 1914, but such dissenting voices were not the ones writing history.
Following World War II, Western anthropologists realized that race cannot be scientifically defined, based on cranial size or nasal index. According to Prof. Kenneth A. R. Kennedy, who has studied the Harappan skeletal remains extensively, "Biological anthropologists remain unable to lend support to any of the theories concerning an Aryan biological or demographic entity." According to Prof. Gregory Possehl, an anthropological archaeologist at the University of Pennyslvania, "Race as it was used in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries has been totally discredited as a useful concept in human biology." Thus there is nothing to distinguish the invaders from the natives; in short, there is no Aryan or Dravidian race.


A century after Indian scholars raised objections, Western scholars are realizing that the racial interpretation was based on over reading soft evidence; it was a consequence of the 19th century racial insanity that ruled Europe. In 1999, Hans Hock reexamined the supposedly racial Vedic material and found them either to be mistranslated or open to alternative non-racial interpretations. Among multiple interpretations, the racial one was preferred because it favoured colonialism. Still the Professor at UCLA still talks about the snub-nosed Dasyus, even though Indian scholars have interpreted that the Vedic word means one devoid of speech, not nose.
Over the years, historians have accepted that various language groups are just that — language labels — and does not map to racial identity. In the 11th Neelan Thiruchelvam Memorial Lecture given in Colombo on Aug 1, 2010, Prof Romila Thapar made this very clear. According to her the notion of separate Aryan and Dravidian racial identities has no basis in history. According to Prof. Thomas Trautmann, "That the racial theory of Indian civilization still lingers is a matter of faith. Is it not time we did away with it?" But even in the last general elections, the Dravidar Kazhagam party leader exhorted his followers to reject "Aryan" candidates.


It is such non-benign theories and their consequences that has caused Indian scholars to view Western theories with suspicion. Prof. Edwin Bryant writes, "I argue that although there are doubtlessly nationalistic and in some quarters, communal agendas lurking behind some of this scholarship, a principal feature is anti-colonial/imperial." Thus the issue is not what members of BJP believe or do not believe; the issue is what is the latest scholarly consensus and why is it not being taught to students. Maybe the Prince of Persia can investigate if the CIA is involved.
 

Singh

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Yet another final nail in the coffin of Aryan Invasion theory

[h=2]Nail, Coffin, Aryans[/h]This one does not need any commentary.
Widely believed theory of Indo-Aryan invasion, often used to explain early settlements in the Indian subcontinent is a myth, a new study by Indian geneticists says. "Our study clearly shows that there was no genetic influx 3,500 years ago," said Dr Kumarasamy Thangaraj of CCMB, who led the research team, which included scientists from the University of Tartu, Estonia, Chettinad Academy of Research and Education, Chennai and Banaras Hindu University. "It is high time we re-write India's prehistory based on scientific evidence," said Dr Lalji Singh, former director of CCMB. "There is no genetic evidence that Indo-Aryans invaded or migrated to India or even something such as Aryans existed". Singh, vice-chancellor of BHU, is a coauthor.[Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study]


Here is a link to the paper.

Summing up, our results confirm both ancestry and temporal complexity shaping the still on-going process of genetic structuring of South Asian populations. This intricacy cannot be readily explained by the putative recent influx of Indo-Aryans alone but suggests multiple gene flows to the South Asian gene pool, both from the west and east, over a much longer time span. We highlight a few genes as candidates of positive selection in South Asia that could have implications in lipid metabolism and etiology of type 2 diabetes. Further studies on data sets without ascertainment and allele frequency biases such as sequence data will be needed to validate the signals for selection.
The point is that nothing exciting happened following the decline of the Harappan civilization. The Dravidian folklore is just that – folklore. Migrations did happen to the region, but they date to much earlier period before there were Dravidian and Indo-European languages.

"‹Nail, Coffin, Aryans | varnam
 

TTCUSM

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The Rig Veda describes a migration of Persians out of India rather than a migration of Aryans into India:

Book 7, Hymn 6:
1. PRAISE of the Asura, high imperial Ruler, the Manly One in whom the folk shall triumph-
I laud his deeds who is as strong as Indra, and lauding celebrate the Fort-destroyer.
2 Sage, Sing, Food, Light,—they bring him from the mountain, the blessed Sovran of the earth and heaven.
I decorate with songs the mighty actions which Agni, Fort-destroyer, did aforetime.
3 The foolish, faithless, rudely-speaking niggards, without belief or sacrifice or worship,—
Far far sway hath Agni chased those Dasytis, and, in the cast, hath turned the godless westward.
Now, you may ask, which country lies to the west of India? The answer is Persia. If you look at the names of various South Indian tribes, you will find that none of them refer to themselves as "Dasas". However, there IS a Persian tribe that refers to itself as the Dahae.

Also, the pre-Islamic religion of Iran was Zoroastrianism, which considers the Ahuras to be divine and the Devas to be demonic.
 

Param

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The Rig Veda describes a migration of Persians out of India rather than a migration of Aryans into India:



Now, you may ask, which country lies to the west of India? The answer is Persia. If you look at the names of various South Indian tribes, you will find that none of them refer to themselves as "Dasas". However, there IS a Persian tribe that refers to itself as the Dahae.

Also, the pre-Islamic religion of Iran was Zoroastrianism, which considers the Ahuras to be divine and the Devas to be demonic.
Why would they refer to themselves as dasas?

Dasa or dasya is not even a dravidian word.

Dasas and Dasyas was the name given to the vanquished non Aryans by the Aryans. And they did not reach the South. native ethnic groups in the South remained unnaffected for centuries.
 

TTCUSM

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Why would they refer to themselves as dasas?

Dasa or dasya is not even a dravidian word.

Dasas and Dasyas was the name given to the vanquished non Aryans by the Aryans.
You are right.
However, this does not take away from my point that the term "Dasa" refers to Persians rather than Dravidians.
 

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Rigveda 1.33.4

O, All Powerful Warrior! You possess a variety of powers and roam alone. Do use your powerful weapon to destroy wealthy Dasyu (criminals) and Sanakah (those who steal from others). May they reach their deaths through your weapon. These Sanakah are devoid of noble acts.

Rigveda 1.33.5

Those Dasyu (criminals) who are themselves devoid of noble resolutions and clash with noble people, flee away due to your protection. O brave warrior, you have destroyed the Avrata (unscrupulous) from everywhere.

In this mantra, two adjectives are used for Dasyu – Ayajva (those who do not perform noble acts and noble resolutions) and Avrata (indisciplined and unscrupulous).

Rigveda 1.33.7

O brave warrior! Destroy and drive away these Dasyu, whether they laugh or cry, from the world and protect those having noble resolutions and those who pray.

Rigveda 1.51.5

O brave warrior! Make those cunning people tremble with fear through your cleverness who consume everything only for themselves. O protector of people, destroy the habitations of those Dasyu who spread violence and protect those who are simple and truthful.

Rigveda 1.51.6

O brave warrior! You have been killing those who exploit others and protect those who are saints. To protect those who help others, you trample the most powerful wicked people. You have always been born to destroy the Dasyu (criminals).

The adjective used for Dasyu is Shushna which means those who do "Shoshan" or exploit others.


Rigveda 1.51.7

O God! You know very well the Arya and the Dasyu. Destroy the Avrata (unscrupulous) Dasyu for sake for those who perform noble deeds. I want to follow all the noble actions. Kindly inspire me.

Rigveda 1.5.9

O powerful warrior! For sake of disciplined people possessing noble resolutions and performing noble actions, you destroy the Avrata (unscrupulous). For sake of those having polite speech, you keep the rude and indisciplined people under control.


Rigveda 1.130.8

O Powerful warrior! You indulge in three types of wars – ordinary, competitive and prosperity-enhancer. You protect the Yajaman Arya (noble people indulged in benevolent acts) and destroy the Avrata (unscrupulous) people with darkness in heart who are indulged in violence or plan to indulge in violent activities.

------------------

Rigveda 6.22.10 states that 'Daas should be made 'Arya'. How could it be possible if these were to denote races!
 

Rahul M

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Why would they refer to themselves as dasas?

Dasa or dasya is not even a dravidian word.

Dasas and Dasyas was the name given to the vanquished non Aryans by the Aryans
. And they did not reach the South. native ethnic groups in the South remained unnaffected for centuries.
:rolleyes: each vedic tribe only referred to itself as arya and everyone else, even other vedic tribes (who belonged to the same "race") that were enemies as dasyu.

arya and dasyu are adjectives meaning civilized and uncivilized, not racial identifiers.

it was connected to race by medieval minded europeans who were too narrow minded to think of anything but race. some idiotic Indians continue to believe these asinine theories because they would rather be slaves to europeans in mind rather than spend a little bit of brain thinking over it.
 

Virendra

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Taking Aryas or Dasyus as races is a mere conjecture built over linguistic theories. No genetics support it, no archeology supports it.
As the wars mentioned in Vedas indicate, time and again there were rebellions from materialistic/spoiled sections of the society who did not want to stay in the vedic culture's realm. They were defeated and driven away westwards. If I remember correct, the same people were later known as Mlechhas.
While Arya and Dasyu tussle is a fact, to call them different races is false and it no where signifies foreign origin to any of people calling themselves Aryans.
 

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