Article 30 and Religious Apartheid in India

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by parijataka, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    On how Ramakrishna Mission Calcutta declared they were a non-Hindu sect and how minorities are being pampered at the expense of majority. Article by Dr Moorthy Muthuswamy referred from Satyameva Jayate blog.

    *** Excerpts from Religious Apartheid in Modern India by Moorthy Muthuswamy ***

    Please read the full post at the blog as citations are given for the facts and figures quoted.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
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  3. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Nothing is going to happen, i think majorities may start questing only when Survivability becomes an issue or when they are decreased to equal/less in numbers compared to other minority religion.
     
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  4. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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    As usual we will have the secularists twisting the words. Just wait for it.

    Hope RSS comes into power and declares India - a Hindu Rashtra. And changes its name to Hindusthan too.

    The 100th monkey effect as mentioned by skumar is already taking shape.
     
  5. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    This is a despicable abuse of tax payer money!

    For the highlighted bit, I agree, let's not twist words and look at the problem with an honest analysis!

    Are the vast majority of the Christian schools and hospitals funded by the government?
     
  6. SHURIDH

    SHURIDH Senior Member Senior Member

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    So angry with chirstians now.
    How dare their literacy rate is 80%,
    why are not they poor than majority.
    Don't feel insecure or jealous from 2.3% of country.
    The blog is not an authentic source.
    That too satymbjayve blog which is totally biased and a right wing hinduvta based site.
    There has thousand article in various blog how chirstians are persucated in india by rss.so will you belive it if i post them.
    So come up with govt. Official data or article from a well known site.
    Don't quote from blog.
    Your argument lost merit when you quote from a biased blog.
     
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  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Not sure about whether vast majority of these schools are funded by the government, but AFAIK, most of the funding comes from foreign donations.
     
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  8. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    I have studied in a minority institution with religious reservation and full GOI/UGC funding! It's fact! There is no denial and jealousy is no option, when my tax payment goes into propagation of a faith which is not mine! That too without my permission!
     
  9. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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    From Rajiv Malhotras Yahoo Group.


     
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  10. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    You really think RSS should change the official name from "Bharat" to Hindustan? Which is the Indian name?

    You are a very confused person.

    As for the blog denouncing minority controlled institutions, Christians have a tradition of establishing educational institutions. What is stopping Hindus from doing the same and then reserving 100% seats for Hindus? Don't blame someone else for your laziness.
     
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  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    You have made a valid point. 'Bharat' is more Indian than 'Hindustan.' 'Bharat' is totally Indian, while 'Hindustan' is half-Indian.

    Hindustan = Hind + stan, where 'stan' originates from proto-Indo-European, and thence Sanskrit and Persian (Avesthan Persian), but 'Hindu' was a Persian coinage. Although it originated from 'Sindhu,' which was local to India, Indians never called themselves 'Hindus.'

    P.S.: 'Stan' exists in many languages, ranging from India all the way to European Russia, and so, it is indeed Indian, but not exclusively Indian.

    Vivekananda has written about proselytization of the untouchables, and Ramakrishna Mission has taken congizance of this issue. When I went to Meghalaya, I have seen Ramakrishna Mission running schools there, and imparting modern instruction, along with imparting them with the knowledge about the Vedas.

    Let's be honest - most Christian countries have been wealthy since the Industrial Revolution and colonial days, and they have been generous contributors towards efforts for spreading their religion. Ditto with Arabs flush with petro-dollars. While today, Hindus may not have the wherewithal to lavish money on such causes, when they had the opportunity, the Brahmanical gentry actually prevented people their rightful place in society. So, yes, you are correct. Let us not blame others and instead try to rectify our own faults.
     
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  12. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    This will result in another partition if those believing in "Hindu" nationalism over Indian nationalism form a large chunk of the population.
     
  13. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Unless of course, Hindu nationalism is equated with Indian nationalism. That's what the RSS believes, that all Indians are (or should be) Hindus because they consider "Hindu" to be a cultural and not a religious term. Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains are automatically Hindus, but Muslims and Christians have to prove themselves to be Hindus by giving up those of their religious beliefs which do not mesh with Indian (Dharmic) cultural values.

    If you think of it, RSS's theory of Hindu Rashtra is not that far off from Hitler's vision of the Aryan nation.
     
  14. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: St Stephens for eg

    1. Article 30 in The Constitution Of India 1949
    30. Right of minorities to establish and administer educational institutions
    (1) All minorities, whether based on religion or language, shall have the right to establish and administer educational institutions of their choice
    (1A) In making any law providing for the compulsory acquisition of any property of an educational institution established and administered by a minority, referred to in clause ( 1 ), the State shall ensure that the amount fixed by or determined under such law for the acquisition of such property is such as would not restrict or abrogate the right guaranteed under that clause
    (2) The state shall not, in granting aid to educational institutions, discriminate against any educational institution on the ground that it is under the management of a minority, whether based on religion or language

    ===

    2. DU is central university. St Stephen's is a constituent college of DU. UGC funds all Central Universities and their constituent colleges.

    ==
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2012
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  15. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is actually the greatest fear, that if the Minorities become too many then they will ask for separate land, once again. Therefore it is necessary for Hindus to remain "significant" majority, significant enough to impose a demographic change in any part of India. Those who seek partition can migrate to either East or West, it was already done in 1947, for the convenience of the minorities.
     
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  16. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    Shuridh, no one is jealous of Christians' literacy. The article talks about how Article 30 of our Constitution is being used to fund Christian institutions controlled by missionaries in some cases at tax payers account -

    1) Some minorities like `Christians are a privileged minority in India, with the government's resources -- inadvertently, it seems -- allocated for their preferred empowerment` giving the example of St Stephens college in Delhi that is 95% state funded yet sets aside a large proportion of its seats for Christians.

    2) Similarly `the percentages of teaching staff belonging to the Christian faith in missionary-controlled, but taxpayer-funded American College, Union Christian College and St. Xavier's College are 66, 83 and 42 respectively.But the percentages of Christians in the state of Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Maharashtra, where these colleges are located are just 7, 19 and 1 respectively, clearly suggesting the role of religious discriminations in hiring.`

    3) One may wonder why the majority Hindu community, like the missionaries, couldn't establish more education institutions and run them. The missionaries, unlike the largely impoverished majority community, have been a fortunate recipient of largesse worth hundreds of millions of dollars every year from abroad, and other benefits such as government-allotted free land for establishing educational institutions (provided only to the minorities).

    Basically what it means is that the Hindu majority is being taxed to support Christian minority that takes benefit of government largesse as well as gets millions of dollars of funds from abroad.
     
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  17. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The author is confusing Article 30 with funding of institutions

    Article 30 states
    . Right of minorities to establish and administer educational institutions
    (1) All minorities, whether based on religion or language, shall have the right to establish and administer educational institutions of their choice
    Article 30 in The Constitution Of India 1949

    It does not mandate a certain govt. funding of minority institutions. Its not restricted to just religion but also for language. It is a basic safeguard that if a minority - religious or linguistic - wants to establish an educational instutitons then they will be free to do so.

    Consider a scenario were Shiv Sena comes to power in Maharashtra and says that all schools and colleges will have to run in Marathi and pass a law to that affect. That law would be consitutionally invalid. Same if it happens in Tamil Nadu if they ban Hindi medium instruction for example.
    Religion also comes in the same way because 80% of population is Hindu and any govt. college or school would naturally have a Hindu majority mgmt and school population on average. And the Article 30 safeguard is to allow minority religious groups to administer their own educational instiutions.

    Outside India as well, for example in Libya and Tunisia, the state mandated requirements for schools was that they have to be co-ed and scarfs were not allowed among others. Except to the local Jewish residents some of whom are quite orthodox and have segrated schools for boys and girls. There is no state interference in Jewish schools although state support is provided to them.


    The RK mission issue has been debated earlier and IIRC the Supreme court judgement in short said
    (1) RK is still part of Hinduism although focusses on the cult of RK
    (2) The RK missions will have the right to administer its school by its own mgmt under article 26(a) ---- and this is despite the fact that RK mission schools and colleges were built on govt. donated land in the 70s and the WB state govt. was providing operational expenses
    Full SC judgment which was passed in 1995 is here
    Complete judgement of the Supreme Court of India - In-Depth Issues - Publications - Hinduism Today Magazine

    Although the article is focussing mainly on Christian instituions, the author is creating a Hindu victimhood mentality by using the apartheid term. We have census reports and comparison reports from for example the Sachar report which again derives it from census reports and NSSO surveys on the percentage of graduates, post graduates, govt. jobs e.t.c. for Hindus even splitting between SC/ST and Hindu-Gen. And in all cases Hindu-Gen have a better performance than SC/ST or Muslims.
    Besides, any minority instituion has to have a minimum 50% for General seats. This can't be called apartheid. Particularly when article 26(a) provides pretty much the same autonomy in management of institutions. There are some like AMU that has no quotas despite being a minority institution and others like St Stephes that has 50% or Jamia Millia Islamia that has a 25% quota. But no institution is allowed to go over the 50% limit. This can't be called apartheid because there is no segration of non-minority students here
    In general colleges, SC/ST/OBC quotas get applied which are predominantly for Hindus and I am sure that most if not all of them will have more than 50% students from the Hindu population. And there are many more general colleges and unis than minority institutions.



    One last thing; I just went to check the source of the most controversial part because from census 2001 we know that per capita income of Christians and Hindus are no.1 and no.2 in Kerela while Muslims are no.3 and all of these are within 2-3000Rs of each other. If you split Hindus between FCs and SCs/STs then FC Hindu per capita income would probably be much more closer to Christian per capita income

    The paragraph starting with "The] 55 per cent of Hindu population of Kerala controls 11.11 per cent of the state’s bank deposits. On the other hand, the 19 per cent Christian community commands 33.33 per cent and 25 per cent Muslim population retains 55.55 per cent...."

    points to [44] which again links to an Organiser article which is not accessible and is a well known RSS mouth piece. I could not find any other source for this "fact" which seems quite incredible. Given the source, I would be highly sceptical unless proven otherwise. It just doens't match with per capita incomes and the credit distributed from govt. stats that we have available.

    The issue that the author is bringing might be on how the state should be funding educational instutions. Most of minority institutions are run on donations rather than govt. aid. But by conflating it with article 30 and raising the bogey of religious apartheid he has diluted his valid points. The state population, burecracy and private sector is majority Hindu. When the policies are made and implemented the major beneficiaries are again Hindus. If there is concern on why St-stephens should get 95% of its running costs from the govt. that is a valid point. But that is nothing to do with Article 30. Keep in mind that SC Christians or Muslims don't get any reservation benefits that SC Hindus/Sikhs or Buddhists get with regards to jobs, education and elections.

    The reverse also happens where for example AMU's medical college, despite not having any minority quotas gets only around 2 crores funding from the Centre while Dr Ram Manohar Lohia Hospital which has half the beds of AMU gets around 300 crore. (JNMC of AMU: Victim of shameful discrimination of Central Govt.t)

    This is a problem with how the govt. is disbursing funding to institutions and a more transparent criteria based on equity, infrastructure and quality is required. Not removal of article 30 which is just a safeguard for minorities - religous or linguistic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2012
  18. SHURIDH

    SHURIDH Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bravo ejaz bhai.
    You expose the real think.
    In gradution level be it iit,medical hindus are over 80%.
    So no question of discrimination could be araise.
    Still some people by quoting a rss article try to make a false victimhood.
    Article 30(a)is a safe gurd for minorities to ensure education for them when in general section 49 out of 50% quota goes to hindu sc/st/obc.
    So in general section hindu representation reach 91%.
    And minority who are 20% only represent 9% of general educalional student.
    According to article logic can i ask why 20% minority tax payers money used for extra 11% non minority hindu student.
    Why non minority hindu student gets benifited by minority tax payer's money.
    Does it sound great to my hinduvta friend
    So after minorties heavily under represented in general education system they need some minority educational institute which they have control.
    If hinduvta people has problem in quota for minorites in minority institution than first told them to abolish sc/st/obc quota in general educational institute from which the majority hindu community the biggest benificiary of quota system benifited at the expense of cutting share of minorities.
    Hinduvta people has great agenda try to marginalised religious minorities at any cost.
    Despite hindu being 91% in general educational system,90% in civil service they want to creat false victimhood.
     
  19. SHURIDH

    SHURIDH Senior Member Senior Member

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    so chirstian are privilaged minority,
    muslim are pamperd minority.bah bah what next mister.
    What about general education sector mister where 49 out of 50% quota of sc/st/obc goes to hindu community.
    The majority community become 91% of general education sector when minority are 9%.
    So 20% minority tax payer money according to your logic are usualy used for extra 11% non minority hindu student.
    55% money of minority tax payers used for hindu student in general education system in that way.
    How does it sound to you.
    The percentage of hindu teacher in general educational institute over 92%.
    So should i start to smell discrimination to minority in this.
     
  20. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    This time, There won't be any partition. Be sure on that :)

    In fact, Demand of partition is possible if minority growth will continue to be more than majority. Remember 1947?

    Hindu Rashtra or Secular. However, former is better but few things need to be changed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2012
  21. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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    LET US ALSO BLAME OTHERS AND ALSO RECTIFY OUT OWN FAULTS.

    Corrected for your better understanding.
     

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