Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Ray, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,543
    Location:
    Somewhere
    What a sorry state of affairs our good old Saint Anthony has led us into, maybe under the guidance of the Queen Bee as she did with Manmohan to hush up on the 'Fishtail' issue, as reported in the Sunday Guardian.

    It is time to do away with the Ordnance factories and give it to the private sector or have a PPP.

    Ordnance factories are a drain on the exchequer, babudom ridden with no accountability and infamous for slippages or poor quality products.

    If much of the ammunition has to be imported, then India should invite those companies to set up shop in India so that this mess does not occur. the FDI in defence is a correct step in this direction.
     
    sesha_maruthi27 and Srinivas_K like this.
  2.  
  3. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Mr @Ray I think we need atleast 2 months of ammunition and oil reserves just in case of war with China and Pakistan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    sesha_maruthi27 likes this.
  4. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,981
    Likes Received:
    11,810
    Location:
    Akhand Bharat
    @Ray sir wat could be the reason apart from stated in the media. I need to know your personnel point of view
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,543
    Location:
    Somewhere

    Determined from experience, a unit of fire was the amount of ammunition that would last, on average, for one day of fighting.

    Ammunition 'wastage' is calculated on the intensity of battle expected.

    There will be periods when it will be 'slow', 'normal' or 'intense'.

    This depends on the tactical situation that manifests itself based on the capability of the enemy. The terrain also plays a role in the determination.

    Since attacks cannot be relentless all along the front or fronts. there will be varying degrees of 'intensity'.

    Therefore, based on a statistical model, based on the experience, the 'wastage' is calculated.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    Yusuf, Peter, sesha_maruthi27 and 3 others like this.
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,543
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Delays in placing orders, delays in production, delays in supplying and so on.

    And of course, finances.

    But most importantly, stupid bureaucrats and worse, idiotic Ministers.

    India has seen many idiots, but Anthony takes the cake!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    Yusuf, p2prada, Blood+ and 7 others like this.
  7. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Thanks Mr @Ray
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    I find it quite odd, to save his "Saintly" image, Anthony is guilty of dereliction of duty by compromising the nation's security. I would've preferred a guy who would've not compromised on nation's security and in the process made some money too.
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,543
    Location:
    Somewhere
    How can one not know that some did not 'canonise' him to become a Saint? ;)
     
  10. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    Italians are the final arbiters ;)
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,543
    Location:
    Somewhere
    And the Vatican can canonise!
     
  12. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,515
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Location:
    Bharatvarsh
    Gentlemen,

    This article is from Rajat Pandit. So, think about it's credibility, just sayin...
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,543
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Could you elaborate.

    I actually don't know him.

    How many days of WWR does IA have?

    Having observed how things are going, I cannot help but believe him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
    Blood+ likes this.
  14. hitesh

    hitesh New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    941
    Likes Received:
    512
    This excuse was also given during Kargil war that IA will run out of RT shell soon ,in case of full blown war .
     
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,543
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Wasn't too wrong.

    We had to import Bofors ammunition etc, if IIRC.

    I don't think that was an excuse, but a reality.

    Been there, seen that.
     
    Blood+ and sesha_maruthi27 like this.
  16. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,515
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Location:
    Bharatvarsh
    Rajat Pandit guy is (in)famous for writing some fictitious stuffs. Some of his articles on Tejas LCA are the proof of that. I don't have any evidence to back my claim however, time and again his articles were proven incorrect, that too on DFI, IIRC.

    I understand, IA's situation is not that great but I feel, it's not that worst as well as depicted in the article.
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,543
    Location:
    Somewhere
    I am not too in depth about these so called Defence correspondent since they always seem to have an axe to grind, like that chap who is the AC Col, I forget his name.

    Yet, whatever little I have seen or heard, does not give me confidence, though I would not dismiss that it might be an exaggeration.
     
    Blood+ and kseeker like this.
  18. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,751
    Likes Received:
    2,666
    Location:
    India
    To bring in the WWR in the current context of ceasefire violations is absurd. If a defense correspondent thinks, this ceasefire violations can lead to a war and starts counting the WWR then there is something amiss for him.

    Yes, we must stock up to a level desirable and as you have pointed out is based on various factors including statistics. For we never know who would do a Kargil on us. And that would be bad for us as we have to buy ammunitions from other countries at a premium. And we have been through all these before.

    But, in current context it's pure sensationalism on the part of author. As Pakistan is fighting a war on it's own soil and fending of hordes of militia who are conducting cross border raids on Pakistan's posts. And Pakistan is firing dozens of rockets into Afghanistan. And it had didn't have a great economy for last few years to stock up.


    So, when in his original article, carried when the news broke he had mentioned that with genuine efforts we can reach full quota WWR only in 2019. And to reproduce it now as a reminder when barely a year has passed in the context of ceasefire violations, as pointed out earlier is sensationalism.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  19. hitesh

    hitesh New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    941
    Likes Received:
    512
    India should have treaty with Israel or Russia to deliver pre specified ammunition in case of emergency at reasonable rates as i am pretty sure we would have few explosions in military armory in case we start stocking large amount of ammunition in peace time :rolleyes:
     
  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,519
    Likes Received:
    6,520
    How many people believe everything they read?
    Years ago I remember there was a bullet shortage.
    Having short supplies almost forces you to use bigger
    Guns more quickly.
     
    sesha_maruthi27 likes this.
  21. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,884
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Location:
    Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh(INDIA)
    I want to know the life of a single ammunition round.

    Will this border skirmish or firing turn into a full scale war?

    Is India, in large, ready for such an unprecedented war?

    If this turns out into a war, how will India Respond?

    Keeping aside the ammunition's, what about missiles like BRAHMOS and other tactical missiles and their availability in case of a war with pakistan?
     

Share This Page