Army set to try more lethal T-90 tank

asianobserve

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India is better off entering into an agreement with the South Koreans for the production of K2 tanks or an indigenized version of that tank in India for the IA.
 

kaustav2001

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The new tanks that have been ordered are T-90MS, rest of the T-90S will be upgraded to a similar standard. The Indian upgrade did not feature new target lock on systems and gun realignment upgrades. As usual we will stick whatever we can tweak locally and buy the rest.
Although I'm inclined to believe that the orders are for the T-90 MS, the tribune article clearly states that the enhancements will be to already existing platform.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD)-operated Heavy Vehicle Factory (HVF) at Avadi on the outskirts of Chennai that licence-produces the T-90 in India has been tasked with adding the technical goodies to the existing platform. Work has already started on it, a source confirmed.
As per the report only the following component are being upgraded -
1) Fire control/ Targeting system (with an automatic target tracking system)
2) Better thermal imager.
3) Muzzle reference system.

If it indeed were T-90 MS we would also have heard about the new Turret & improved armour & gun (2A46M5).
 

Decklander

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Although I'm inclined to believe that the orders are for the T-90 MS, the tribune article clearly states that the enhancements will be to already existing platform.

As per the report only the following component are being upgraded -
1) Fire control/ Targeting system (with an automatic target tracking system)
2) Better thermal imager.
3) Muzzle reference system.

If it indeed were T-90 MS we would also have heard about the new Turret & improved armour & gun (2A46M5).
Don't we already have them in Arjun Mk-1 already? Mk-2 is far superior to any version of T-90 planned or existing. Why are we buying more of these T-90s while the Russians have yet to come clean on TOT for T-90S itself.
 

kaustav2001

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Don't we already have them in Arjun Mk-1 already? Mk-2 is far superior to any version of T-90 planned or existing. Why are we buying more of these T-90s while the Russians have yet to come clean on TOT for T-90S itself.
If I had my way I rather pick up the Arjun Mk-2 as that would boost our local industry, however the upgrades on the T-90 are necessary (& expected) & from the article it appears that they are definitely trying to incorporate what they can (without ordering a whole new tank of-course) from the T-90 MS.
Quite frankly it appears as if the Army has pretty much made up it's mind to standardize on the T-90 as it Primary battle tank.
 

p2prada

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Don't we already have them in Arjun Mk-1 already? Mk-2 is far superior to any version of T-90 planned or existing.
We will be flogging a dead horse. Arjun was not ready when T-90 was inducted. By the time Arjun was ready, a 1000 T-90s were already operational.

T-90MS is the next iteration of T-90S like the Super MKI is to the MKI. We will obviously go for the next version. We may not go for the entire package that was showcased in Russia, but we will be taking what we can afford.

It doesn't make any sense at all to employ two different tanks. Looking at where the Arjuns are being inducted, it makes sense that none of them will see service inside enemy territory during war time. All the T-90s are in strike corps.

Why are we buying more of these T-90s while the Russians have yet to come clean on TOT for T-90S itself.
The new T-90MS will be used in Sikkim AFAIK. Not a place for a 60+ tonne tank. Even a vocal T-90 critic like Ajai Shukla agrees with that.

Even if we consider the 6000 crores reported in ToI is correct, T-90MS is still $14 Million cheaper than what Arjun Mk2 will cost, especially considering T-90 ammunition is more lethal.

Lastly and most importantly, there is a nationwide capability in logistics and maintenance for T-90 while Arjun has none. It is not simply a unit vs unit issue, it is about the tank being able to fit into the entire system, which the T-90 does better than Arjun. Put Arjun Mk2 into the same system as it is today, it may be considerably less lethal than even a 15 year old T-90S even if it has better specs.
 

JBH22

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Russians since 2011 have ceased to order T-90 instead they are waiting for the Armata to take shape, but in the meantime they are modernising their T-72s.

Short of nothing its not unreasonable that we go the T-90MS way.
 

SilentKiller

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Don't we already have them in Arjun Mk-1 already? Mk-2 is far superior to any version of T-90 planned or existing. Why are we buying more of these T-90s while the Russians have yet to come clean on TOT for T-90S itself.
Sir Some Army generals just read some foreign defence news etc and easily get convinced that foreign goods are better. When our enemies are moving towards indigenising we are still stuck with getting foreign goods. Option of getting foreign goods means they can robe us as well as prove that pledge they take is mere a sentence. for me whether arjun is better that T90MS or not but its Indian, it gives more jobs to Indian, gives us learning platform to build much better, will be much cheaper that any foreign tank, will save us $ and in turn improve indian Rs.
We could have gone for moderation of Older T-90S tanks like adding active defence system to them and converted all armored regiments in at least in western region i.e. for rajasthan and Punjab being replaced with Arjun MK2.
 

p2prada

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Russians since 2011 have ceased to order T-90 instead they are waiting for the Armata to take shape, but in the meantime they are modernising their T-72s.

Short of nothing its not unreasonable that we go the T-90MS way.
The Russians can't afford to build capability like we can right now. They are waiting for their petrodollars to flow into their coffers. That's why they are developing the latest of everything and then place bulk orders. OTOH, we can place bulk orders for current gen stuff as well as develop and place orders for future gen stuff.

Anyway, they have quite a few tanks which are older than the T-90S and still quite capable.

You can follow that pattern in every Russian service wing and not just Armata. New SAMs, new ships, new aircraft, new submarines, new missiles and so on. New stuff everywhere while upgrading the older stuff.

T-90MS is more like a comprehensive MLU for the T-90S.
 

Patriot

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Don't we already have them in Arjun Mk-1 already? Mk-2 is far superior to any version of T-90 planned or existing. Why are we buying more of these T-90s while the Russians have yet to come clean on TOT for T-90S itself.
So what if we have those features in Arjun! Problem is Arjun does not bring bribes along with so it is not qualified while T-90 can shall keep filling babus pockets for long time on the pretext of one or another upgrade. Anyway , we are going to get the downgraded monkey models only of tincans , so forget about the thay are going to add any significant capability to IA. The stage for T-90MS was pre-set since the time Def-Expo, they have done some upgrade to make it look at par with Arjuns.

It's just like, you buy downgraded expensive Junk and then to justify it's purchase you keep upgrading it.

Elections are approaching & UPA is in hurry to sign deals.
 

Decklander

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So what if we have those features in Arjun! Problem is Arjun does not bring bribes along with so it is not qualified while T-90 can shall keep filling babus pockets for long time on the pretext of one or another upgrade. Anyway , we are going to get the downgraded monkey models only of tincans , so forget about the thay are going to add any significant capability to IA. The stage for T-90MS was pre-set since the time Def-Expo, they have done some upgrade to make it look at par with Arjuns.

It's just like, you buy downgraded expensive Junk and then to justify it's purchase you keep upgrading it.

Elections are approaching & UPA is in hurry to sign deals.
I agree 100% with you.
 

Abhijeet Dey

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If Indian Army doesn't prefer Arjun Mk-II tanks then is it possible to export them to other friendly countries? That would bring more foreign exchange to India.

Or maybe India doesn't have a good export policy in defense.
 

Kunal Biswas

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There is no offical declaration of such agreement, Just rumors spread-ed by Russian PR machine..

The new tanks that have been ordered are T-90MS, rest of the T-90S will be upgraded to a similar standard. The Indian upgrade did not feature new target lock on systems and gun realignment upgrades. As usual we will stick whatever we can tweak locally and buy the rest.

Also it looks like 118 more tanks have been kept for reserve order as the demand was for 354.
 

Decklander

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If Indian Army doesn't prefer Arjun Mk-II tanks then is it possible to export them to other friendly countries? That would bring more foreign exchange to India.

Or maybe India doesn't have a good export policy in defense.
I agree with you. Indian armed forces are addicted to bribes and phoen gals who come free with blue label in five stars. In my presentation to a very bis industrial group which is into defence production regarding my own stealth ac project, I told them to completely overlook IAF and I will tease them by rotating my langot over my head in an open challange for aircombat once the ac clears the spin test.
The guy who designed bullet proof vests was asked umpteen questions US home security guys. He replied by wearing the vest himself and turned the gun on himself and fired. The orders were placed there and then.
Thats what I told this group, I will fly myself and defeat the best of IAF as till date no one has been able to defeat me in aircombat in India. And once I defeat SU-30MKI & Mirage2k in combat no one will ask me any question.
BTW, Langot ghumana is a very old tradition of wrestlers wherein the person challanges anyone from anywhr with any weight to fight. It is our tradition in haryana and also maintained from the days of Bal dau ( Elder Brother of Lord Krishna).
 

t_co

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I agree with you. Indian armed forces are addicted to bribes and phoen gals who come free with blue label in five stars. In my presentation to a very bis industrial group which is into defence production regarding my own stealth ac project, I told them to completely overlook IAF and I will tease them by rotating my langot over my head in an open challange for aircombat once the ac clears the spin test.
The guy who designed bullet proof vests was asked umpteen questions US home security guys. He replied by wearing the vest himself and turned the gun on himself and fired. The orders were placed there and then.
Thats what I told this group, I will fly myself and defeat the best of IAF as till date no one has been able to defeat me in aircombat in India. And once I defeat SU-30MKI & Mirage2k in combat no one will ask me any question.
BTW, Langot ghumana is a very old tradition of wrestlers wherein the person challanges anyone from anywhr with any weight to fight. It is our tradition in haryana and also maintained from the days of Bal dau ( Elder Brother of Lord Krishna).
Cocaine is a helluva drug!

In other news, you have your own stealth ac project?
 

Agnostic_Indian

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I agree with you. Indian armed forces are addicted to bribes and phoen gals who come free with blue label in five stars. In my presentation to a very bis industrial group which is into defence production regarding my own stealth ac project, I told them to completely overlook IAF and I will tease them by rotating my langot over my head in an open challange for aircombat once the ac clears the spin test.
The guy who designed bullet proof vests was asked umpteen questions US home security guys. He replied by wearing the vest himself and turned the gun on himself and fired. The orders were placed there and then.
Thats what I told this group, I will fly myself and defeat the best of IAF as till date no one has been able to defeat me in aircombat in India. And once I defeat SU-30MKI & Mirage2k in combat no one will ask me any question.
BTW, Langot ghumana is a very old tradition of wrestlers wherein the person challanges anyone from anywhr with any weight to fight. It is our tradition in haryana and also maintained from the days of Bal dau ( Elder Brother of Lord Krishna).
but sir if you defeat a iaf pilot would that necessarily mean that it's because of the capability of aircraft itself ? couldn't it be because you are a better pilot like you yourself claimed ? question is can an average pilot also can defeat a mki with the fighter jet designed by you ? in a video about Russian airforce they says something like this " with fbw an average pilot will perform better but fbw system will limit the performance of a good fighter pilot "
 

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