Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through T-90 purchase

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by sathya, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. sathya

    sathya Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    TAMIL NADU
    Top army generals are undermining India’s Arjun tank to push through a Rs 10,000 crore order for T-90MS tanks from Russia. Senior defence ministry (MoD) sources tell Business Standard that Arjun trials, proposed for the plains of Punjab, are being scuttled to prevent any high-profile Arjun success from jeopardizing the import of more T-90s from Russia.

    A proposal from the tank directorate for Arjun trials in Punjab has been placed on the backburner after instructions from the Military Operations (MO) Directorate. The powerful MO Directorate, more than any other branch of the army, deals directly with the army chief.

    At stake here is the Rs 10,000 crore purchase of 354 new T-90MS tanks for six tank regiments for the China border. Business Standard had first reported the raising of these regiments (Sept 17, 2012, “In a first, Indian tank brigades to defend China border”). In the proposal that the government is considering for two tank brigades and a mountain strike corps, the army has put in the cost of 354 T-90MS tanks.

    These new tanks will supplement the 1657 Russian T-90S, and 2414 T-72M tanks already deployed on the Pakistan border. So far, there are just 128 Arjun tanks in service, with an order for another 118 in the pipeline.

    The army has denied that the MO Directorate is blocking any trials.

    Even as the Arjun tank — developed in India by the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) — outperforms the T-90 in comparative trials held by the army, support for Russian tanks inexplicably grows. With the Arjun’s performance established, the army is now arguing that the 60-tonne Arjun is too heavy for the soft soil of Punjab and J&K; it must therefore be confined to the deserts of Rajasthan. That would mean that only 4-6 of the army’s 65 tank regiments can operate the Arjun tank.

    The DRDO rebuts this logic, as do the tank units that actually operate the Arjun. “The Arjun’s heavier weight is distributed over a larger area because of its larger tracks. Its “nominal ground pressure” is lower than the Russian tanks. So the Arjun can actually move more easily in Punjab,” says S Sundaresh, the DRDO’s Chief Controller of R&D for armoured vehicles.

    This is validated by history, says Lieutenant General (Retired) RM Vohra, who won a Mahavir Chakra in the 1971 war while commanding 4 HORSE, a tank regiment equipped with Centurion tanks. He says the 42-tonne Pakistani Patton M-48 tanks got mired in the soft soil of Asal Uttar, in Punjab, while the 51-tonne Centurion moved around that battlefield easily.

    The T-90MS, a new, upgraded version of the T-90S that India bought in 2001, is regarded as well suited for the extreme cold of Ladakh, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh, where the two new armoured brigades will operate. The Arjun, in contrast, is designed to withstand the heat of the Indian plains, where the T-90S has repeatedly malfunctioned in high temperatures. The T-90S now being built under license at the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, near Chennai, have proved less reliable than the Russia-built T-90S that were delivered initially.

    “The army is justified in wanting the T-90MS for the China border. But it is wrong in scuttling the induction of the Arjun in Punjab and J&K. The Arjun must be given a fair chance. How can a Russian tank be given preference over an Indian one?” says a senior armoured corps general who is still in service.

    The six tank regiments being bought for the China border will be divided between two armoured brigades, one located in Ladakh, and the other one in the north-east. Both sectors have valleys and plateaus in which China could attack with tanks. The new tank formation will safeguard these approaches and also provide a retaliatory capability in case of Chinese attack.

    http://idrw.org/?p=16016
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
    maomao and ersakthivel like this.
  2.  
  3. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,629
    Likes Received:
    11,705
    commission must be 200 crores in this deal.
     
    maomao likes this.
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,287
    Location:
    BANGalore
    And we lament on why we don't have a good military industrial set up.
     
    maomao and W.G.Ewald like this.
  5. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    27,613
    Likes Received:
    28,428
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    Very possibly true, there were an unofficial meeting before this..
     
    ersakthivel likes this.
  6. sathya

    sathya Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    TAMIL NADU
    both tanks are of different category ..

    i hope this ruckus give media coverage to MK2 Arjun tests and make it successful rather than delaying t 90m deal.

    BTW can Arjun be deployed in hilly regions ?
     
  7. Snuggy321

    Snuggy321 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    238

    I dont think so, currently we only have T 72 in these regions. AFAIK Arjun would be to heavy for the infrastructure there, esp. the countless bridges.

    PS: Surya rocks ;)
     
    sathya likes this.
  8. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,629
    Likes Received:
    11,705
    what next Arjun MK-2 Vs T90MS.

    Last time it was Arjun one up.

    Why Army cant have MRCA type open tender for tank ??
     
    maomao, uss, ersakthivel and 2 others like this.
  9. sathya

    sathya Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    TAMIL NADU

    i guess its follow up deal , with other t 90s upgraded to t 90m standard later on.
     
  10. sathya

    sathya Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    TAMIL NADU
    i hope the new infrastructure that is being built can support heavy transportation
     
  11. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    27,613
    Likes Received:
    28,428
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    Coz its a fixed deal, Just like in 2001..

     
  12. sasi

    sasi Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    Location:
    India
    Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through Russian T-90 purchase

    Already posted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  13. sasi

    sasi Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    Location:
    India
    If Arjun is heavy for leh and north east,then free some t90 regiments from gug-rajasthan sector. Replace it with Arjun. Deploy freed regi to leh and northeast.
     
    Tronic and Kunal Biswas like this.
  14. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,629
    Likes Received:
    11,705
    Arjun even though it is our child received treatmeant meant to Karan, while Karan has received Arjun's treatmeant. We know who won last time, this time it appears that light tank engagement area is excuse given.
    Hope when war takes placr we dont get screwed big time by enemy and our foreign suppliers.
     
    maomao, sasi and sob like this.
  15. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,665
    Location:
    New Delhi
    IA needs to come clean on this whole Arjun v/s T 90 issue. A point be point evaluation should be shared at least with the powers to be in MOD/DRDO and the select committee on defence in the Parliament.

    Such decisions lead credence to underhand deals and further lead to plenty of mud slinging.
     
    maomao likes this.
  16. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    FROM NAINITAL NOW IN CHENNAI
    their must be an investigation why arjun is alway sided down against t 90 even it has prove it better to t90
     
  17. Decklander

    Decklander New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,654
    Likes Received:
    4,043
    Location:
    New Delhi
    An Italian waitress who is also a Russian agent will sign on anything which the russians want for the sake of bribes. In a 10k crore deal, the total bribe amount may be upward of 3k crores. We had known that this is what will happen as the MOD has literally forced IA to ask for these tanks. IA had wished to induct more Arjuns on Pak border and transfer T-90s from Pak border to China border. But this plan was scuttled at behest of the russian agent Italian waitrss and IA forced to buy these tanks.
     
    maomao, Tronic, uss and 2 others like this.
  18. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    6,456
    Likes Received:
    6,647
    Location:
    Erode
    An mmrca type open evaluation and which tank suits which area must be openly published after stringent evaluation of both the tanks.
    If the bridges in the north east cannot support arjun then we can shift T-90s meant for the western sector to eastern sector rather than giving additional T-90 orders.

    Arjun crossed the river RAVI near lassian which was previously marked as non tankable in the Indian army map which was equipped with much lighter T-72s.
    http://worldofdefense.blogspot.in/2011/05/arjun-weight-ratio-compared-to-other.html
    from
    :: TEMPUR OFFICIAL WEBSITE - English Section - Arjun Mk1 MBT Proves Its Superiority
    it was rated to have much better on the move shooting ability and much better accuracy resulting in much better first hit kill by the army.So it is surprising that orders are being given at 100 at a time, while t-90s are procured in 1000s.

    It's electronics were heat hardened to with stand the summer heat, while T-90s were reported to have problems in this area.
    If we don't deploy a tank which was perfected over 30 years of r&D then it will be a great strategic blunder as all western armies operate higher protection heavy weight tanks.



    Since it distributes it's higher weight with wider tracks it can ecert lesser ground presssure on even marshy landscape than the 1000s of inferior t-72s.

    in future even the chinese army may join the attack in the western sector it it is a two front war with the completion of karakoram highway with pakistani army.

    Strategic community should take this into account and speedily deploy mk-2 arjuns by giving it a larger order run reducing the costs further.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
    Kunal Biswas, uss, Rage and 1 other person like this.
  19. navkapu

    navkapu Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    39
    So it happened...... funny
     
  20. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    6,456
    Likes Received:
    6,647
    Location:
    Erode
    Dissimilar Combat: Arjun MBT Vs T-90S specs : Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion
    More info on arjun's performance in this site.
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?89961-Indian-Armed-Forces/page116

    Some more info on how arjun matured over the years in the above blog written by ajai shukla.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  21. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    6,456
    Likes Received:
    6,647
    Location:
    Erode
    Indigenous defence research - looking through DRDO prism : Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion
    Another long article on the lack of co operation between defence forces and DRDO

    http://ipcs.org/pdf_file/issue/1796701917IPCS-Special-Report-23.pdf

    the above article has some accurate info regarding arjun.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012

Share This Page