Army chief withdraws his plea after SC warning

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by utubekhiladi, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    More than a week before defence minister AK Antony rejected the army chief’s statutory complaint on his date of birth controversy last month, General VK Singh told defence secretary Shashi Kant Sharma that he was being treated by the ministry as if he was the chief of Pakistan army.

    Sharma had dropped in at the army chief’s office on December 21, 2011 to ask him what his plans on the age issue were.

    Top government sources said the army chief made it clear to the defence secretary that the age issue was only related to his honour as the leader of the 1.1-million strong army and had nothing to do with an extra year in office, which he would get if Antony accepted May 10, 1951 as his date of birth.
    Two dates of birth exist in army records for the army chief: May 10, 1950 and 1951.

    Even though Antony rejected Gen Singh’s statutory complaint, the army chief met finance minister Pranab Mukherjee, who advised him against moving court.

    The Prime Minister and the national security advisor are also in the loop on the matter.

    Gen Singh till now has no intentions of taking his age issue to the court, but sources said the he was feeling humiliated by a “section of the defence ministry”. He told Sharma that he was being painted as a villain by the ministry.

    The chief has already had some three meetings with the key interlocutors and had met Mukherjee immediately after Antony had rejected the statutory complaint.

    The government is trying hard to find a civilian solution to the crisis so that there is no division in the Indian Army.

    I'm being treated like chief of Pak army: Gen Singh - Hindustan Times

    ============

    is congress trying to install his own puppet as army general so that congress thugs can run corruption in defense sector in huge scale? what is going on here?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2012
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  3. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    Age row: Army chief likely to sue govt after rejection of his plea


    The chief of army staff, General V.K. Singh, has been contemplating dragging the government to court over the high profile age issue, sources told Headlines Today.

    No serving chief of the Indian Army has ever sued his government before. But the unthinkable in the history of Indian civil-military relations seems not too far. Stung by the final rejection by the defence ministry to his statutory complaint over the age issue, Gen Singh has run out of options.

    While the army chief keeps his cards close to his chest, speculation were rife about confrontations between him and the UPA government.

    The debate has precipitated over a conflicting clash of birthdates. While one set of documents declares the chief's date of birth as May 10, 1950, another puts it down a year later in 1951.

    The government rejection means the chief would be taken to have been born in 1950 and therefore he would retire this year. If it did not, he would have retired in 2013, giving him a full extra year in office. The conflict also affects the succession line in the army.

    A legal expert said, "As things stand, the army chief will be emboldened by the fact that four former chief justices have supported his age claim... The chief is also under advisement by a legal team that if he plans to take any action, he should do it while he still serving since that would have maximum impact."

    "The chief's campaign has been predicated on honour and justice... to back off without winning could affect morale and perceptions within the ranks," the expert added.

    The chief has reposed faith in veteran Congressman Pranab Mukherjee, a former defence minister himself. A five-minute meeting on December 30 was dismissed as a courtesy call, but sources revealed it was to appraise the senior politician about how delicate the situation was.

    The army has, however, officially said that reports on the chief's intentions were currently in the realm of speculation.


    Read more at: Age row: Army chief likely to sue govt after rejection of his plea : North News - India Today
     
  4. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    A guy with 4 stars or the equivalent ought to suck it up and lead by example rather than being a Drama Queen and a crybaby. "I'm being treated like chief of Pak army boo hoo hoo." Seems obvious he is too attached to his benefits. Nothing good for Indian military will come out of this, IMHO.
     
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  5. lemontree

    lemontree Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The Gen should resign or carry out a coup :D
     
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  6. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    On a lighter note, he could do that for a change. If we can't give our veterans their due respect then shame on us. Let us not forget that the Government represents civilians, and when the Government is being sued by the Army Chief, it reflects poorly on we the civilians as well, we should have known better and voted more intelligently
     
  7. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    IMHO, the answer to your question is Yes.
     
  8. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    instead of jumping to conclusions or assumptions, we need to first find out what is going on in there. i do not trust congress even for a minute. our media is no more truthful than media in your countries. his patriotism should not be questioned without facts. he has served country during Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 and Operation Pawan. he was even honored and inducted into the United States Army War College (Class of 2001 graduate) International Fellows Hall of Fame. He is the 33rd International Fellow and the first Indian Armed Forces officer to be inducted. he is recepient of many medals, badges and awards including but not limited to "Param Vishisht Seva Medal, Ati Vishisht Seva Medal, Yudh Seva Medal". so i don't think he is the guy who is after position or money. i could be wrong-too. but we need to find out what exactly is going on.

    so please show some respect to our high-ranking military officers and generals who have put everything behind for our nation.
     
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Gen VK Singh is legally correct about his date of birth.

    Date of birth is reckonable from the date in the School Leaving Certificate. His year of birth on that certificate coincides with his claim.

    Legally, the Adjutant General's Branch is the authority that maintains the Record of Service and Personal Details. The Military Secretary's Branch has no jurisdiction over the Record of Service or the authority to change the same without the approval of the AG's Branch.

    Hence, the Chief's contention is validated.

    If the Chief resigns, then the Western Army Commander, Lt Gen Ghosh, who is the next in line, takes over.

    If the Chief retires as per the Govt's contention, then Lt Gen Bikram Singh, the Eastern Army Commander takes over from him.

    If the Chief retires as per the date maintained by the AG's Branch, then Lt Gen Parnaik, the Northern Army Commander takes over from the Chief.

    The Govt is wrong in their contention legally and even morally.

    It appears that they are keen to promote Lt Gen Bikram Singh as the next Chief.
     
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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The question of any coup just does not arise!

    No matter what is the decision, the Indian Army is not in that league of subverting democracy.

    These are the type of activities the politicians, with the help of bureaucrats, are for quite sometime playing to ruin the strict standards of the military traditions, customs and ethic, and make it pliable like the Police.

    This is a sad and yet dangerous trend where politics is being injected in the Armed Forces.

    The country may have to pay for it dearly in the future when military officers will start aligning with political parties to ensure the promotion of their personal ambition as they do in the Police and the IAS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
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  11. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    do you think anybody of them is a congress puppet? i am afraid that congress is trying to install its own puppet here..:(
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  12. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    at-least you and me share the same concern. i can take a best guess where this is headed. election is near and congress is losing it's public support and image, so new congress puppet army general will help vote bank politics by revoking armed forces special power act, by reducing troops in kashmirs etc etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  13. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Ray Sir,

    Correct me if I am wrong, the genesis of this problem lies in the new succession plan what had been laid by the former COAS Gen. J.J.Singh and there have been some reports that this was designed to benefit a particular individual.

    Also it is my belief that the no nonsense approach by Gen V.K.Singh in tackling the various corruption issues have not endeared him to the Babu's in MOD.

    Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding of the situation from different sources.
     
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  14. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    According to reports in Media, General VK Singh has provided 19 documents supporting that his date of birth is 1951 and not 1950 as the government wants it to be. Is the UPA govt. preparing for another egg on its face??. The General has every right to get justice and if govt. doesn't provide it then let law take its course. But it will be a shame that a Army General has to sue a government in India to get justice.
     
  15. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    ‘Us versus them’ game at South Block


    It is called the “us versus them” play and the game is unique to South Block on Raisina Hill. Played periodically for dominance, it has hard working, honest and patriotic bureaucrats on one side and golf playing, whiskey swilling and pliable officers of the armed forces on the other.

    The net result is that the bureaucrat, self-declared protector of national interest, always wins with a knock-out. Both sides use skulduggery on the other, but the bureaucrat wins as he convinces the political masters that the country could do with a less number of generals as the last full-scale war was only fought 40 years ago.

    The game is currently in play even though the last heavy weight encounter ended up with military getting knocked down by the Defence Ministry babus 12 years ago with Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, Chief of Naval Staff, being shown the door by the Atal Bihari Vajpayee led NDA government on December 30, 1998 on grounds of defiance. Of course, it is another matter that the NDA government lost its majority after 13 months when AIADMK led by J Jayalalitha pulled out demanding of all the things reinstatement of Bhagwat.

    Fortunately, in the current game between Army Chief General V K Singh and Defence Secretary Shashi Kant Sharma over the former’s date of birth, matters have not come to such a pass. Sharma, in fact, is trying to redeem the situation that had taken a turn for the worse during his predecessor Pradeep Kumar’s tenure. The wise man of UPA II is still at the job and chances of recovery look good albeit the spin-masters of Defence Ministry are on an over drive with so-called classified personnel papers virtually lying in the corridors for anyone to pick up. This is all too familiar for those who covered the Bhagwat exit and the ensuing fratricidal war within South Block like me.

    The 78,000 strong Navy is still to fully recover from the humiliation meted out to its chief at the behest of one babu called Ajit Kumar, then favourite of Defence Minister George Fernandes. It is now for the Manmohan Singh government to assess what would be the present state of the million-strong Indian Army, whose chief is now being accused of being a liar on the basis of inspired leaks from the mandarins.

    The basic contention of Defence Ministry is that General Singh had accepted is date of birth as May 10, 1950 instead of now claimed 1951 before he became chief in writing and any change now would upset the succession plan at the Army Headquarters. Honest due diligence would reveal the following:
    *January 21, 2008: Military Secretary (MS) under then Chief Deepak Kapoor made it clear to Gen Singh, then Ambala Corps Commander, that he would have to accept 1950 as his date of birth. The letter from Lt General P R Gangadharan said: “We are constrained to maintain your official date of birth as 10 May 1950 and the same may kindly reflected in your documents.”

    *January 24: Gen Singh after talking to Gen Kapoor sent out a telegram to stating: “Whatever decision taken in organisation interest is acceptable to me.” But Kapoor and Gangadharan were not happy and wanted the reply to be specific, clearly showing the pressure mounted on Gen Singh.

    *January 24: The telegram from the MS branch states that the response (from Gen Singh) was “not in conformity with response asked for” in the Jan 21 letter. “Request forward acknowledgement and confirm acceptance of date of birth as given in Jan 21 letter….If reply not received by 10.00 hours on January 25, 2008 action deemed appropriate will be taken,” the signal said. This clearly shows that Kapoor was threatening disciplinary action against Singh if he would not accept 1950 as his age. Anyone with working knowledge of Indian Army would tell you that the officer does not have the civilian option to go to Defence Minister when under such pressure. But the matter does not end here

    *January 30: Gen Singh replies to Gen Gangadharan. Among other things, he states: ” In view of the above constraint and in accordance with the discussions of date, I will mention the date of birth as directed.” It is acceptance of a directive from a superior officer. But the headquarters is still not satisfied and continues coercion.

    *January 31, 2008: Gen Singh is left with no options and must toe the line. He sends a two line telegram. One of them states: “Date as mentioned is accepted.”
    In light of the above and given the force discipline, not one officer worth his salt would have stood up to Army Chief as this would have amounted to insubordination. The second point of succession is fallacious as convention is that the senior most army commander takes over as the next Army Chief and even in this there have been exceptions.

    Just as the NDA government was stuck on making Vice Admiral Harinder Singh as Deputy Naval Chief in opposition to Bhagwat, the UPA is now stuck on making Lt General Bikram Singh as the next Army Chief as if there was a denominational basis to succession. Lest it be accused of playing politics with the military brass, it is time that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, Pranab Mukherjee and AK Antony took a step back from staring at the abyss. The sagacious political leadership should not get drawn into “us versus them” game.

    One must remember that Gen Singh was awarded Yudh Seva Medal (1990), Ati Vishisht Seva Medal (2006) and Param Vashisht Seva Medal (2009) by President of India and the mentioned date of birth is 1951. He has been promoted from Brigadier (1996) to Lt General (2005) on 1951 date of birth. His driving licence, matriculation certificate, passport, election commission card all say 1951. Rather than dividing the Army any further, the PM should call al his wise men and get due diligence done on the personal record of General Singh. The statutory complaint filed by General Singh before Antony should be seen as an opportunity and not as an affront by the Manmohan Singh government.
     
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  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Even if I knew, I would refrain from throwing oil over troubled waters.

    The Chief's appointment is always a political decision. Take the case of the successor to Gen Krishna Rao. Gen Krishna Rao advised Indira Gandhi not to promote Lt Gen Sinha as the next Chief, even though Lt Gen Sinha was the next in line and very qualified.

    Beyond that, I will use the usual political statement.

    The matter is under consideration and therefore, it would not be right of me to make a comment.

    We must wait for the Cabinet decision.

    :rofl:
     
  17. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Sir wasn't this whole thing started with Gen Thapar's elevation as Army Chief by Nehru ?
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    If indeed the Gen had told this to the Defence Secretary, the conversation should have been treated as confidential and private.

    That it has been leaked indicates the vilifying campaign against the Chief and the Army played out by the politicians and their handmaidens, the bureaucrats.

    And the nation wants the Armed Forces to be 'gentleman like' when such downright scoundrels are the ones to decide the destiny of people and even the Nation!

    Total skulduggery and guttersnipe behaviour.
     
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  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I am not aware of this case.

    But there is no doubt that politicisation of the Army started with Krishna Menon, but it did not make it to the level it is today.

    The traditions, customs and ethics of the Armed Forces were too strong in those days.

    Mulayam was the one who was hard at playing politics and then it started in real earnest.

    There are good reasons that the Chief's appointment has to have some political considerations since a popular Chief with political ambitions can do a Pakistan! The Govt likes to ensure that such a situation does not come to pass!

    That is why I am so worried that the Army is getting politicised.
     
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  20. lemontree

    lemontree Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Lt. Gen Bikram Singh's daughter-in-law is said to be a Pakistani citizen.
     
  21. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Is the Army Chief coming in the way of shoddy deals? Is this what is making the babus so unhappy that they are ready to make an example of this great institution? Who is sitting on the moral high ground here? The ministers and babus driven by ego and money or the Army Chief who has decided to drag his own government to the court?
     

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