Arjun MBT Push by Parrikar?

[DivineHeretic]

After Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) blamed the Indian Army for delaying the induction of Arjun tanks developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and MOD playing second fiddle to Indian armies delay tactics.

According to sources close to idrw.org , Defence Minister Parrikar has asked Indian Army why delays tactics have implemented by them . Parrikar likely also will have meeting with directors of Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) who have developed Arjun tank soon to look into this whole delays effecting the Project.

Indian army has inducted only 124 Arjun MK-1 tanks and had later asked for Arjun Mk-2 which is substantially improved and more capable than the Arjun Mk-1 but it needed 19 major modifications leading to further delays . Three Phases of user trials have been completed but homemade Arjun Mk-2 tank suffered a major setback, when critical Israeli anti-tank missile Lahat failed to meet the army's requirements.

DRDO now is working on Indigenous tube-launched anti-tank missile which can be fired from main barrel of the tank further delaying Project . Arjun MK-2 which is 5 tonnes heaver then MK-1 still needs to clear two more phases of user trials before it can enter Production . Parrikar likely will push for another another round of orders for MK-2 after user trials which are scheduled for this summer ,which will double the current requirement from 124 tanks .

DRDO in past have told that orders above 500 tanks will bring the cost down and will make Arjun project financial viable , since Indian Army still needs more then 1500 new tanks to replace older T-72 and T-55 tanks from its fleet .While Indian army has been inducting Russian T-90 Main battle tanks , CAG has questioned why Indian Army is OK with short comings of T-90 tanks but refuses to provide similar concessions to Arjun Tanks indicating Bias benchmark which has been used by Indian army for both tanks .

SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK ( INN)

I'd normally be skeptical of any news from IRDW, but given the kind of treatment IA have dished out at Arjun, even this is worthy of a thread. Please merge it with the original MKII thread a little later.

 

[praneet.bajpaie]

Can anyone explain this obsession of the Indian Armed Forces to import sub standard hardware from abroad while not even considering the indigenous ones. We have read reports that the Indian armed forces are willing to dilute requirement procedures when it comes to foreign products (Arjun Tank vs T90) , (HAL Jet Trainer vs Pilatus).

Why is this so? Isn't this bordering on anti nationalism?

 

[fateh71]

Can anyone explain this obsession of the Indian Armed Forces to import sub standard hardware from abroad while not even considering the indigenous ones. We have read reports that the Indian armed forces are willing to dilute requirement procedures when it comes to foreign products (Arjun Tank vs T90) , (HAL Jet Trainer vs Pilatus).

Why is this so? Isn't this bordering on anti nationalism?

Enough money to buy everyone out + genuine issues with local products.

In short, a classic example of how incompetence is used, even promoted to facilitate avenues of corruption.

 

[Hari Sud]

Indian Army's dramatic obsession against Arjun tank has been well documented. In the last five years, it had been DRDO versus Indian Army. It seemed in this war of words the Indian Army came out ahead and managed to stall Arjun-1 induction in the army. Not until Comptroller General documented how army had sabotaged Arjun testing including stiffening standards for Arjun as opposed to T-90. Still Arjun came out ahead.

Five years back, it was its weight when Indian Army made it known that Indian road bridges cannot support additional 8 to 10 tons of weight. Then they deliberately delayed its field test, hoping something will breakdown and their point will be proven. Yes, the engine broke down. Yes, the engine, a German does not breakdown just like that, it had to be sabotaged. Anyhow a new German engine replacement arrived at testing began, about two years later. Then, still dissatisfied, DRDO hired Israeli experts to evaluate Arjun. They gave it a Deser Ferrari designation.

When comparative tests of Arjun and T-90 were conducted, the Arjun keep coming ahead. Still nitpicking Army listed about a hundred deficiencies. They listed none in T-90, although without a huge air conditioner, all T-90 electronics seem to breakdown in desert conditions. Cornered and still dissatisfied they ordered 125 of these monsters, very reluctantly. The deficiencies listed could be satisfied in the newer edition of Arjun as in Arjun-2. That will take two years of work. Finally a big surprise was thrown open, it cannot fire Israeli LAHAT missile. Hence they decided to reject it. Purely flimsy excuse.

All tanks and armies of the world, have undergone revisions as the time passes with newer everything in including electronics, gun sighting, thermal imaging, night sight, commander sights and many more. They do not begin their life all fully upgraded on day one. Somehow Indian Army is expecting everything on day one. The present day Abrams Tank of US army has undergone four upgrades in about twenty years. New improvements are installed as these are developed, but not for Indian Army.

Now Indian Armed forces have to realize that there is a new Sherrif in town and also new Defence Minister. They have already stated their vision in clearer terms that it is Make in India policy in the future. Roughly translated, comparable Indian military hardware cannot be rejected on flimsy grounds in favor of imports. If something has to be imported then it has to be made in India with technology jointly developed or imported and then further developed. Outright imports are to be discouraged. In this regard the FDI has been increased to 49%, hence it is easier for foreign suppliers to make it in India.

Indian Army, if you go against the political will, heads will roll. Hence make up your mind, stop reading those blue glossy brochures which the arms merchants put out. Stop excepting foreign trips, parties and other fringe benefits which the arms merchants offer. Stop taking the nation for a ride on flimsy grounds.

Cheers........

 

[sgarg]

It is nothing more than corruption, pure and simple. DRDO and OFB do not put money in the pockets of bigwigs who decide big ticket purchases. Five star lifestyle is expensive.

If Arjun designers have a slush fund, then Arjun has a chance.

 

[sayareakd]

I dont think Arjun will get huge bulk order. Lets wait and see. I love to be proven wrong.

 

[dastan]

Surprises, surprises! Parrikar in action?

 

[Kharavela]

It is nothing more than corruption, pure and simple. DRDO and OFB do not put money in the pockets of bigwigs who decide big ticket purchases. Five star lifestyle is expensive.

If Arjun designers have a slush fund, then Arjun has a chance.

Thankfully, those days & ways are gone for Indian Army (as well as for Indian Air Force). #ModiSarkar is not going to tolerate such practices & has been demonstrated by Raksha Mantri.

The days are close when we will hear induction of MBT Arjun, LCA Tejas, HTT-40 and many more indigenously developed & manufactured products, weapons & platforms.

 

[Vishwarupa]

If Indian Army is not keen on Arjuna Tank, let DRDO export it to friendly countries like Israel, Singapore etc.

That will prove a point to IA.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its not about Arjun but Tejas as well ..

 

[Kharavela]

With reference to my post #8, LCA Tejas has been inducted now. Waiting to see induction of MBT Arjun, HTT-40, AESA Uttam etc pretty soon.
Vande Mataram.

 

[sgarg]

I dont think Arjun will get huge bulk order. Lets wait and see. I love to be proven wrong.

Big Arjun order cannot come as the requirement is already filled by T-90 orders. So there are no numbers to fill by Arjun.

However Arjun can still replace some T-72 regiments in the plains. So doubling of Arjun order is quite believable.

 

[sgarg]

If Indian Army is not keen on Arjuna Tank, let DRDO export it to friendly countries like Israel, Singapore etc.

That will prove a point to IA.

A lot has to change in terms of Indian foreign policy for that to be achieved. India can get immediate success in Vietnam, and some countries of Africa and South America. However defence deals are often shady and the government run factories cannot handles such deals. India will have to create an export organization (like Russian Rosboronexport).

 

[anupamsurey]

Can anyone explain this obsession of the Indian Armed Forces to import sub standard hardware from abroad while not even considering the indigenous ones. We have read reports that the Indian armed forces are willing to dilute requirement procedures when it comes to foreign products (Arjun Tank vs T90) , (HAL Jet Trainer vs Pilatus).

Why is this so? Isn't this bordering on anti nationalism?

call it anti nationalism, corruption, or whatever but it does show that the user is used to kickbacks which they wont get with desi maal. the administrators in army (those who are involved in such practices need a kick, that's why we have a DAC). the ministry must act tough in this case......who knows how many dollars were given to our generals to ignore shortcomings in T-90.
this is not just in the case of tanks, every thing from rifles to clothes in army carry pocket warming. after all army or not they are Indians.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The bad apples ( Foreign lobby agents ) are not only in Army but as well as OFB, DRDO and MOD ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Their are over +900 T-72 are lying around for years, These can be replaced by Arjun MK2 ..

Army saddled with 900 unreliable T-72 tanks

India's main battle tank the T72 is in bad shape. An internal audit report of the army which says that about 900 T-72 tanks are inoperational, all because their overhaul is far behind schedule. The security implications are huge because without the T72 tank India's tank regiments find themselves at a great disadvantage.

Army saddled with unreliable tanks-News-Exclusives-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

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Further order of 345 T-90 can be cancelled in favor of more Arjun MK2 ..

In total their is still place for 900+ Arjun MK2, If government can take right steps ..

I dont think Arjun will get huge bulk order. Lets wait and see. I love to be proven wrong.

However Arjun can still replace some T-72 regiments in the plains. So doubling of Arjun order is quite believable.

 

[pmaitra]

SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK ( INN)

I'd normally be skeptical of any news from IRDW, but given the kind of treatment IA have dished out at Arjun, even this is worthy of a thread. Please merge it with the original MKII thread a little later.

IDRW articles come across as written by some amateur blogger. Even I have to pull myself to suffer through their poorly edited amalgamation of words. If whatever has been stated is true, then I can only hope it manifests as reality. More Arjuns will only make us more confident.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

@Kunal Biswas

You say scope for 900 Arjuns

I say there is scope for more

How ?

How many T55 do we have in reserves ? - 500 right

now army is running a M46 guns upgrade program
how many m46 guns do we have approx 400

so now along with upgradation of M46 guns (currently only180 are being upgraded more planned)

now take out T55 from reserves ( as anyway they are obsolete in todays battlefield we should have more capable tanks even in reserves )

t-55 500 nos
check their chasis and systems
lets say 400 are ok and serve for next 10 years

mount the upgraded 400 M46 guns on this 400 t-55 chasis in one go your towed guns are converted into tracked guns
they provide the much needed mobility - t55 armour is not upto the mark but then towed guns in traditional format do not have any armour protection this will allow some protection + much needed mobility

so now we have space for 500 tanks in reserves - ok

now move 300 T72 (of ggod condition ) & 200 t-90 into reserves - fill up 500 reserve tanks position

so now we have 500 nos space in active fleet

then consider the western border / sector

analyse how many & which tanks are deployed there

i propose a new ratio of 65% arjun & 35% T-90 for deployment on western border out of the total tanks to be deployed on the western border

shift the remaining tanks which does not fit in the above pattern to north northeastern sector
so bulk of T-90 T72 will be shifted to china border ladakh etc

shifting a bulk of t-90 from western border to eastern border will also solve its AC problem as the tempratures as colder out there and will create space for arjun in western sector

so now what has happened what we have achieve is

is we have created space of 900 (as you said) + 500 (reserves replacemtn ) = 1400 tanks - Arjuns
we have upgraded 400 M46 towed guns to higher calibre , range & more imp to an tracked SP version
we have also replaced old t50 reserve tanks with relativel more modern and more capable T72 & t-90 mix

i would have done it this way ............... if i was the decision maker

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In actual there are less than 200 t-55, Rest are beyond repairs, Same goes for many T-72M1s ..

Army will be getting nearly 100 catapult based on Arjun MK1 chassis in next 2-5 years span ..

 

[Blood+]

@Kunal Biswas
how many m46 guns do we have approx 400

Actually 60 regiments of M 46 field guns were bought................at least that was the plan.So that would bring the total to 60 regiments X 20 per regiments = 1200 guns.