Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Kunal Biswas]

Well in most cases bridges dont have such mentions, Its up-to your intellect to take action based on situation..

Those who argue use the statement 'No more than 50t bridges and roads' are simply use for argument winning as its been so successful yet..

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The hard reality is excluding Highway and most bridges, Most dont even support 30-40tons, If T-72 rolls it damage the road badly..

Afterall Roads in this areas are nothing but pitch over dirt, there are no support under pitch, Some have stones and few dont even use stones..

If Arjun operate in same places it will have same consequence as T-72 does..

 

[p2prada]

Haha! European standards in India.

 

[wild goose]

Even if there are bridges which can handle 50/70 tons, what assurance do we have that they will remain intact during a war. The enemy can demolish those to block the advance of our armoured formations regardless of them being in India/Pakistan.

The safe bet will be the BLTs and can't we make BLTs which can support whatever tank we wants. So how prudent is the argument that Arjun cannot be used because the bridges in the western border are weak.

 

[Patriot]

And who going to guarantee whether the bridges made by govt. appointed contractor by L1 tendering system going to handle that much weight. We all know so many bridges fall apart even with out heavy or no traffic due bad quality of material used in construction.

BLT is the only safe bet.

 

[Bhadra]

@Austin,

Can you tell me how many bridges we have in north-India specially in Punjab and Rajsthan that are deign to hold exactly under 50tons, I just want to know the places where this exists, Nothing more or less than that..

Major bridges in border ares are either class40 or class 50 inside India as also inside Pakistan but they are not over class 50. Very few bridgws are class 70. This as per old British classifications and nothing to do with tanks..

Both sides are riddled with canals and lined water obstacles... one would not want a tank that gets stuck on own side of the border as it can not cross a water obstacle....

that is plain stupid ... How many years would it take to upgrade those bridges and why should those be upgraded to facilitate move of M1A2 which Pakies will get free !!

Ha Ha ...

 

[Virendra]

Is anyone able to find this Discovery video on Arjun MBT that was aired on 8th and13th September?
It is named 'DRDO Inside Out'.

Inside Out-Drdo Show on Saturday 22nd September on Discovery Channel: Inside Out-Drdo Show Schedule, Songs and Trailer Videos

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sarvatra Bridging System

The Bridge Layer Tank (BLT) mounted on the Arjun MBT chassis.

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Using Snorkels..

When i was in Pataila, I was very much in touch with Armored guys..

What i know from there knowledge that in India most Roads and Bridges in Highway can take more than 80tons and other than highways roads cannot take even take 30tons of weight same goes for Bridges..

The hard reality is excluding Highway and most bridges, Most dont even support 30-40tons, If T-72 rolls it damage the road badly.. Afterall Roads in this areas are nothing but pitch over dirt, there are no support under pitch, Some have stones and few dont even use stones

Both sides are riddled with canals and lined water obstacles... one would not want a tank that gets stuck on own side of the border as it can not cross a water obstacle.... that is plain stupid ... .

I am well aware of what i told, read posts before jumping in between..

Don't ask or raise same questions which are already answered in the thread before, unless you have trolling intentions..

 

[sayareakd]

Watch DRDO episode on ARJUN MBT- INSIDE OUT on Discovery Channel on 8th September- Saturday at 1800 hr, 13th September- Thursday at 0900 hr and 22nd September- Saturday at 1800 hr.

from DRDO website.

someone please record it for all of us.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Bridging the barriers - The Sarvatra way - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Bridging the barriers - The Sarvatra way - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion

 

[ersakthivel]

"UNNAMED ARMY OFFICER" is saying that arjun is not good for strike roles inside pakistan as the pakistani border is riddled with man made obstacles and lower weight class bridge according to an "informed opinion piece " as per indian express reporter "RITU SHARMA".

The officer goes on to add only T series can go through them or rather implies that ,I suppose.
In any case wont retreating PAK corp destroy those "T-series tanks only" 40 tons classification bridges?
WHy would they be dumb enough to allow 40 ton T-series tanks to invade deep into their territory by leaving these bridges?

In the book "IS PARIS BURNING ", Iread that hitler asked every single cultural monument to be destroyed before retreating.

Then what is the guarentee that INDo-PAK border will have these natural and man made obstacles and bridges(left undestoyed) that can be crossed by T -72 and T-90 only?

 

[sayareakd]

"UNNAMED ARMY OFFICER" is saying that arjun is not good for strike roles inside pakistan as the pakistani border is riddled with man made obstacles and lower weight class bridge according to an "informed opinion piece " as per indian express reporter "RITU SHARMA".

The officer goes on to add only T series can go through them or rather implies that ,I suppose.
In any case wont retreating PAK corp destroy those "T-series tanks only" 40 tons classification bridges?
WHy would they be dumb enough to allow 40 ton T-series tanks to invade deep into their territory by leaving these bridges?

In the book "IS PARIS BURNING ", Iread that hitler asked every single cultural monument to be destroyed before retreating.

Then what is the guarentee that INDo-PAK border will have these natural and man made obstacles and bridges(left undestoyed) that can be crossed by T -72 and T-90 only?

yeah completely agree with you, i would say it like this Arjun tank is perfect for operations inside Pakistan, as T series with low weight and armor wont make it pass Pakistani bridges and obstacles, since for Pakistan, it is do or die situation. They will throw everything they got on any tank coming their way, T series with low weight and armor wont last too long, on the other hand heavily armored Arjun will take a beating and will destroy enemy. Plus when you go for war, take everything with you, including bridge layer tank.

Please understand that Tank crew is second only to fighter crew, they are trained professionals and great asset at the hand of army, more protected they are, more war you are going to win.

 

[ersakthivel]

Also in vietnam and korean war america and it' allies operated heavier tanks .In those days the infrastructure of those countries were poor. They may not have many bridges with 50+ton capacity and all the US tanks were heavy.

All over middle east and in many african countries heavy tanks were used from the WORLD WAR TIMES.

AND even in world war the british and germans used heavier tanks all over africa,asia and europe.Then what is so special about indian conditions that forbade the use of heavy tank like ARJUN.

Is the unnamed army official's comments that "indo pak border is riddled with many man made and natural obstacles,that are impossible for modern tanks to cross" justified.

Does he mean the 2000 odd 50 ton T-90s will cross them all?

Does he assume PAKIs will leave theit T-72,90 crossable bridges on their side of border safe and without any damage so that th T series will march on to LAHORE and ISLAMABAD? especially since they can no longer count on US support in UN security council or from any forum and know the area occupied by india will be hard to retrieve.


And all natural obstacles on pakistani border can be crossed by higher ground pressure per sq inch T-90s and not by ARJU?
Note ARJUN crossed RAVI at LASSIAN which was previuosly marked non tankable in Indian army equipped with 40 ton T-72.


Arjun has demonstrated river fording abilities and bridge laying tanks are available.SO why this weight factor is repeatedly dragged again and again for 30 years. Sure the army operated heavy 50 tons challengers and impressed by it.


Sure army knew the weight of ARJUN from the start.
All western MBTs are heavier in the same class as arjun.With precision bombing europen fighters will there be any 70 ton bridge left for these tanks to roll on?


Then why not even one of them have switched to lighter taks which can be blasted by simple landmines and Rpg hits? And still depend on the heavy armoured heavier tank.They value the life of their tank crews ofcourse.

How would INDIAN ARMY react if suddenly with some top secret chinese tank emerge on the indian border through the KARAKORAM PASS which weighs 60 tons can shoot through T- series armour while being immune from their shot with all the bridge laying equipment ?
And what if pakis buy them in thousands and line them up on the border.
Some posters posting here will argue for heavier fighter in LCA vs twin engine thread,while the same time argue in favour of lighter tanks with less armour in ARJUN THREAD.

And if they offer tham to pakis at friendship prices will the UNNAMED OFFICER and his cute quote grabbing reporter will then suck their thumbs?


SO I fell some thing very stenchy behind these UNNAMED officer's Uninformed opinion.Does he expect pakistan to leave it's T-90 crossable bridges open to INDIAN army in the even of any retreat?

 

[sayareakd]

middle man, some media and officials are sleeping in same bed in the Penthouse booked by foreign makers. Share of pie of comission is too much of temption. Who cares for life of crew or what it benifit us at the time of war.

Now more and more officers are getting a look at Arjun, mind set of officers are old and they tend to go with T series tank. Since 1971 we have not seen actual use of tank in war, but if war ever comes, then it will be too late for DGMF.

 

[ersakthivel]

ERA tiles can be blown apart with repeated hits from RPG and other ammunitions.They are not as integeral and dependable as primary armour. So depending upon ERA over weak armour is a questionable tactic.It is not like air war where fighters have limited fuel ,range and bvr missile constraints.In tank battle you cannot break lock and run away.It simply rains artillery,RPG and all kind of anti tank rounds

.A tank has to be strong enough to withstand it.Pounding for days and with high numbers.is depending on ERA will save you from this.During IPKF OPERATION in SRILANKA LTTE managed to blow apart T-72 s with crude anti tank mines.We can find many pictures of T-72's exploded turrets in the recent skirmishes around Russia.

There is a report that Indian army will buy a higher number of T-90s than the russian themselves ,is it true?

 

[ersakthivel]

middle man, some media and officials are sleeping in same bed in the Penthouse booked by foreign makers. Share of pie of comission is too much of temption. Who cares for life of crew or what it benifit us at the time of war.

Now more and more officers are getting a look at Arjun, mind set of officers are old and they tend to go with T series tank. Since 1971 we have not seen actual use of tank in war, but if war ever comes, then it will be too late for DGMF.

MBT Arjun latest version heavier by 10 tonnes - The New Indian Express

Then why are our media lapping up their quotes like lap dogs.For a few dollars more are the journalists too ready to sell the country?Shame on them.

Why are they not confronting these un named officers with questions like
,
1."what are the odds that T series will have enough bridges left over on the PAK side for them to march on?

2.can't ERA tiles be blown apart with repeated hits from RPG and other ammunitions?

3.Aret hey are as integeral and dependable as primary armour like kanchan ?

4. If not ,Is depending upon ERA over weak armour a that is just riveted to tank questionable tactic?

5.It Is not like air war where fighters have limited fuel ,range and bvr missile constraints.It simply rains artillery,RPG and all kind of anti tank rounds.In tank battle canyou break lock and run away from all?

Like a good reporter why is "ritu sharma" from "indian express" NOT asking these questions to the same unnamed army official and quote his reply for the readers of the paper.That's why I always think PRESS FREEDOM is just a scam for these guys to write whatever they wish?

6.There would be no AWACS and ew support for tanks.tank battles are slippery, drag on for days,Only the mighty survive.Are we right in putting our crew men in these museum pieces and pretend that since we cannot give infrastructure support to ARJUN, Pakistanis wont pound these T-series with deadly fire?

7.How many doctorate holders in tank warfare who study modern western western concepts in tank warfare remain in the army ASQR division( like NAVY's designing cells which give complete design drawings to ship builders)?



.

 

[acetophenol]

along with 12mm Anti Aircraft guns,can't we carry MANPADS in tanks to kill choppers?

 

[sayareakd]

along with 12mm Anti Aircraft guns,can't we carry MANPADS in tanks to kill choppers?

CLGM/LAHAT for anti helicopter role, plus one special ammo for anti copter has been made for Arjun.

 

[Damian]

2.can't ERA tiles be blown apart with repeated hits from RPG and other ammunitions?

3.Aret hey are as integeral and dependable as primary armour like kanchan ?

4. If not ,Is depending upon ERA over weak armour a that is just riveted to tank questionable tactic?

1) ERA as it's name says is explosive reactive armor, it means that cassette have explosive filler between two steel plates (or linear shaped charges in some other designs) and when it is hit, it explodes. Modern ERA is also insensitive to small arms fire or shrapnells, so only hit by RPG's ATGM's, tank APFSDS and HEAT rounds it will explode, and only single cassette will explode at a time (only the one that is hit).

2) ERA is manufactured in 3 forms, as addons, as integral build in protection, or in modular form. Well the first generation ERA was mostly addon, the second generation like 4S22 Kontakt-5 is a build in protection mostly, the third generation is modular, of course everything depends on design.

3) Tank can't be armored by composite armor everywhere due to sieze and weight issues (well at least not yet, perhaps in future when new very strong and lightweight materials will be avaiable for mass production... these are avaiable right now, but not as a mass manufactured materials). Due to these limits ERA or addon composite armor modules, are desired way to increase protection, especially over places where base armor is weaker.

 

[Sridhar]

Off topic posts moved to http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...e-tanks-armour-technology-260.html#post588598