Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by nitesh, Feb 12, 2009.
Who ever told so, Don't have idea what he is talking about..
he must be in Shiv sena
Weight itself is not a problem, but the pressure on the ground. What is a realy interesting is that heavier and bigger tanks have in general less pressure on the ground than lighter and smaller ones... interesting paradocs.
If weight increases by 15% without corresponding increase in the width of the tracks, then the ground pressure would increase too.
So, if we assume the tracks haven't changed in size, a 15% change in weight would relate to a 15% increase in ground pressure too. Weight and Ground Pressure are directly proportional. So, 0.84Kg/cm[SUP]2[/SUP] would become 0.96Kg/cm[SUP]2[/SUP].
This may be the new figure for the Arjun Mk2.
Livefist: India's Arjun Mk.2 Tank Revealed
That has nothing to do with what I said.
This is from same force guy article, Like he write couple of nonsense this is one of them, tracks which were being supplied by German company Diehl earlier are now being manufactured by L&T.
From the same article, Regarding weight & Ground pressure :
Panoramic sight for the "Arjuna" : Alexey Khlopotov's personal blog
Russia and India. Despite the differences in geography, culture and other aspects of these countries have in common the common problems of construction of modern armed forces. That in Russia, in India, is now the place to be opposition political groups and clans. As applied to the case military modernization, this translates into a hard military conflict - representatives of the Ministry of Defence and the Army Command in particular, representatives of the military-industrial complex. Similarly, as we now have in Russia, India, military lobby in favor of military equipment imported armaments. Industrialists, in turn, are talking about support for "domestic" manufacturer, to lobby for the development of national industry and economy.The report "Ukraine steals Russian tanks" we have already mentioned that in order to explore the possibilities to upgrade T-90S tanks, the Indian side has sent to Ukraine to Plant im.Malysheva KMDB and one of the tanks of this type, for a comprehensive modernization. But Russian officials probably will not see this as a problem, but according to this do not take any response. But one look at the appearance, demonstrated a model of modernization, as it becomes clear that the Ukrainian company offers direct competitor Russian version of modernization of the T-90C, known as T-90ms "Tagil".
Another strong competitor T-90ms in India, is the national development - the project "Arjun" Mk.2. On this machine we just mentioned . However, it is worth to recall it again. The reason for this are the new details emerged about the configuration of the machine.World experience shows armor upgrade priority - FCS modernization, equipping tanks with more modern sighting systems with the thermal and the possibility of the panoramic view. So much for the tank "Arjun" Now Mk.2 prototypes piloted MSA with panoramic sight COAPS from Israeli firm Elbit Systems (ELOP).
Setting sights on COAPS tank "Arjun" Mk.2 manufactured by Elbit together with the Indian company Bangalore-based Serial Innovations. According to the promotional materials distributed, COAPS has several features that are absent in other OMS tanks. The sight is a modular, open architecture platform, stabilized in two planes. This allows you to easily and cost-effectively add to it or modify the design, reduces maintenance and repair. Allows you to easily install a thermal imaging camera range 3-5mkm or 8-12mkm (target detection range of 5 km), the camcorder with the ability to scale color image format HDTV (target detection range of 5 km), the laser range finder (distance of 10 km). Stabilization of an independent two-plane. Provides a 360 deg. in the horizontal plane and from -20 to +60 deg. in the vertical. The sight has a ballistic protection from bullets and shrapnel. Provides integration into military carrier system, the work in the "search-destruction."
Besides, "Arjuna" Elbit ready to install sight COAPS and T-72 / T-90, which confirms the picture of a few crooked corporate brochure, as well as already working together with Argentina, establishing this device into a modernized light tank THERE.
It is not difficult to see panoramic sight COAPS compares favorably to the Russian and Belarusian counterparts smaller in size, with the odd then it may be easier to assemble modernized, but more so on the newly developed machines. Serious benefits are enhanced viewing angle in the vertical plane (such as our "Hawkeye" only from -15 to +45 deg.), And, of course, open architecture. It may be noted and disadvantages.
First of all, this is clearly insufficient combat and operational viability. Ballistic protection rotten. In dusty conditions the air, not to mention the effects of combat, there are structural prerequisites to ensure that sight can jam with the movements in the vertical plane. Oh and do not know how to show the thermal camera in low thermal contrast.
However, panoramic sight COAPS - this is a serious competitive bid. We can say the Russian tank designers are challenged. Not so terrible it's integration to the modernized "Arjun", will be hurt and angry if this sight the Indian side chooses to upgrade its T-72 and T-90.
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I am hoping serial innovation will bring better product, something which they have worked in past it can be easily added here.
Even increase in ground pressure to 0.96kg/cm is not that bad. I think You should ask Militarysta about comparision data for ground pressure of NATO tanks and much smaller and lighter Soviet tanks, it might be... interesting.
Yeah. Anyway it looks like track width has been increased to accommodate extra weight.
Weight is important when it comes to things like bridges where ground pressure does not matter but absolute weight does.
So if bridge is capable of handling 50 T of wight a lower ground pressure will not help if the tank weighs 60 T but a 45 T tank will have no problem crossing these bridges.
So both weight and ground pressure matters depending on which part of the issue you are dealing with.
Can you tell me how many bridges we have in north-India specially in Punjab and Rajsthan that are deign to hold exactly under 50tons, I just want to know the places where this exists, Nothing more or less than that..
Kunal , I dont know how many bridges exists in plains of punjab or NE or J&K exists that can hold absolute weight of 50 or 60 or 70 T and perhaps no one knows other than the Indian Army or the Pakistan Army.
I was just responding to the statement by Damian that big tanks tend to have lower ground pressure compared to lighter tanks which is not necessarily true.
For eg the newer T-90MS has lower ground pressure than M1A2SEP the latter having ground pressure close to one although the former is a lighter tank.
But like i said bridges go for absolute weight and ground pressure is useful in areas where your tank is on loose surface.
Personally i dont think a ground pressure of between 0.8 plus or 0.9 plus would make any radical difference as the difference is quite marginal and most western , indian and eastern tanks are within those ground pressure limit but an absolute weight would make a difference if you need to cross bridges that might be able to withstand weight beyond a certain ton
IRC Class AA Loading :
The IRC Class AA loading corresponds to the Class 70 loading and is based on the original classification methods of the Defense Authorities.This loading is to be adopted for design of bridges within certain municipal limits, in certain existing or contemplated industrial area, in other specified areas and along National Highway and State Highways. Two types of vehicles are specified :
This loading consists of tracked vehicle, the loading of which is 70 tonnes and a wheeled vehicle of 100 tonnes loading. Both the vehicle types have specified dimensions which are to be observed during the live load analysis in bridge design.The choice from the two types is made depending upon the anticipated types of vehicles to travel on the bridge. Bridges designed for Class AA loading should be checked for class A loading also. As under certain conditions heavier stress may be obtained under class A loading.
The min width and length dimensions has been mentioned in the above pick . 7200(3600) mm X 2900 mm
Arjun's size is bigger than it hence should not have any problem . Pakistani bridges , there won't be any left when they are needed , even if they one cannot be sure they will hold even 50 tonnes weight.
Pakistani bridges are not of much help as they are either rigged with explosives or are useless. Army has its own support system to move along with the armor. I dont know why people are so worried about this.
If we go too far inside Pakistan with our armor (Arjun or T90) they will nuke us and we in return will wipe them from the world map, best case would be that we in event of war, take out most of important assets so that they dont have much war fighting capability left for immediate future, just short of forcing them to use nukes.
When i was in Pataila, I was very much in touch with Armored guys..
What i know from there knowledge that in India most Roads and Bridges in Highway can take more than 80tons and other than highways roads cannot take even take 30tons of weight same goes for Bridges..
In my country there were also concersn about Leopard 2's and their weight, but guys that are close to bridge designing and building says that weight limit shown on signs placed near bridge do not shows how much weight the brigde can had in reality. If brigde have a sign of 50 tons, then in reality it can hand well 60-70 tons. Many trucks, fully loaded can achieve similiar weight as heaviest tanks, and bridges are capable to hold on while these trucks are driving on them.
In my country considering the nature of civil work they do and the kind of substandard product they use partly in building bridges.
If bridge have a sign of 50 T then it would be safer to not try driving vehical above 40 T
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