Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[Vijyes]

We currently source arjun engines from MTU rated at 1400 hp... MTU r world leaders in tank power packs..Abrams tank's locally built gas turbine engine failed in gulf war's sandy conditions making them to source diesel engines from MTU, now acquired by Rolls Royce power systems....it took MTU 12 years of r&d to arrive at this current power pack in production...no easy task for india to emulate..even USA doesn't hv indigenous power pack for Der MBT....keep in mind dat MTU was formulated in 1909..they were building diesel engines for zeplin in ww2..Der r only 3 countries with this technology...dats y CVRDE s cautious in the design stage...dey want the design to be validated first by an external consultant... give them some time to realise the product.....

Met a guy whose company in Chennai was supplying engine parts to MTU..so we do hv some amount of tank diesel engine parts industrial ecosystem in place in India....we lack an indigenous design....give them some time the labs are doing good work..

3 to 3.5 ton reduction s actually good considering d amount of goods put in the mark 2 which led to weight increase in first place.the tank that was placed for the static display had ballast weight on the turret, when enquired i found dey were testing an all electric power drive instead of the existing hydraulic drive whereby weight reduction was by 35% n the same tank was placed for static display....n remember the weight reduction s a work in progress...

Isn't diesel engine made out of simpler items than jet engine? Can't India simply reverse engineer the MTU design itself by breaking it open and understanding the blueprint? If MTU is good enough, why not reverse engineer the exact same engine as an exact replica? We are not going to show it to Germans anyway for them to claim that we violated their IPR

 

[square]

Had opportunity to speak with CVRDE guys at Chennai during the DRDO expo. They said they have managed to reduce the weight of the tank by 3-3.5 tons and it was is an work in progress to meet other requirements of the user with most requirements completed.Reg missile firing capability lahat seems uncertain and they are waiting for CLGM to materialize. When asked for delay in realizing CLGM they said that range has been changed by user. Funny thing was the the guy at the stall said that the user wanted the missile's range to be lowered to 500 meters.The guy was sad stating that arjun's gun can fire very accurately any ammo at that range making the missile redundant at that range. The new suspension has served to dampened the vertical axis movement while on the move making the gun very accurate.

When asked reg army's contention that our bridges cant take the 60+ ton load of arjun, they rebutted saying that they have produced and handed over bridge laying tracked vehicles in hundreds for usage over canal and small rivers and it was the user who wanted a heavy tank with lots of goodies.

Bharat power pack is in design stage and not in prototype stage they are awaiting funding and would go for prototyping after a consultant reviews the design.

Bharat power pack is an absolute essential. If that is in design stage, our scientists are the most useless bunch. I can't understand why we can't fast track a mere tank engine. If we can't do even this or the HTSE engines, what good are we in designing Kaveri engines? Without indigenous engine, there is no point having a vehicle.

3-3.5 ton weight reduction is nothing. The Arjun weight was 68tons. A weight reduction of at least 8-9 tons is needed to bring it within 60tons range

tanks are meant to win wars or to showoff in weight catagory ???

 

[Vijyes]

tanks are meant to win wars or to showoff in weight catagory ???

To win wars tanks must be capable of crossing bridges. That is, without collapsing the bridge! The weight limit is 60 tons

 

[Shaitan]

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[TPFscopes]

To win wars tanks must be capable of crossing bridges. That is, without collapsing the bridge! The weight limit is 60 tons

Please give the reference to your claim regarding war games

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The weight limit is 35 tons or lesser, The argument fits for all tanks but here is being used for Arjuns specifically ..

To win wars tanks must be capable of crossing bridges. That is, without collapsing the bridge! The weight limit is 60 tons

 

[Kay]

To win wars tanks must be capable of crossing bridges. That is, without collapsing the bridge! The weight limit is 60 tons

By the logic, Abrams are not winning..

 

[Vijyes]

By the logic, Abrams are not winning..

I dare if USA can take on Saudi Arabia. Then you will understand what I am saying. USA can only beat up isolated small and weak countries. Iraq was defeated due to Saudi help.

Also, Abrams run on Honeywell engines,not MTU.

Finally, USA hasn't had a need to cross canals too often. Iraq Afghanistan etc do not have many canals to cross while Pakistan specifically dug canals to deter India

So, your logic doesn't work - USA hasn't really shown capabilities of winning big wars on its own, doesn't have foreign engines and doesn't have to cross many temporary laid bridges.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun has better canal cross ability than any-other tanks in IA ..

Finally, USA hasn't had a need to cross canals too often. Iraq Afghanistan etc do not have many canals to cross while Pakistan specifically dug canals to deter India.

 

[airtel]

Isn't diesel engine made out of simpler items than jet engine? Can't India simply reverse engineer the MTU design itself by breaking it open and understanding the blueprint? If MTU is good enough, why not reverse engineer the exact same engine as an exact replica? We are not going to show it to Germans anyway for them to claim that we violated their IPR

even After so many years big companies like TATA are using Cummins diesel engines in their Trucks .

so it is not easy to make a reliable diesel Engines and reverse Engineering is not possible .............MTU is not Good enough it is the Best .

Also, Abrams run on Honeywell engines,not MTU.

Abrams is using gas turbine engine instead of deisel Engines and that is not efficient ......... almost all the other famous modern non-soviet tanks are using MTU diesel engines example = Merkava , Leopard ,K2 Black Panther or Atlay .

 

[no smoking]

By the logic, Abrams are not winning..

For your information, the bridges in US and Western Europe, the standard crossing limit is at least 70t.

 

[Vijyes]

even After so many years big companies like TATA are using Cummins diesel engines in their Trucks .

so it is not easy to make a reliable diesel Engines and reverse Engineering is not possible .............MTU is not Good enough it is the Best .




Abrams is using gas turbine engine instead of deisel Engines and that is not efficient ......... almost all the other famous modern non-soviet tanks are using MTU diesel engines example = Merkava , Leopard ,K2 Black Panther or Atlay .

I am not sure why India can't make a decent engine for defence. Will you import soldiers too? Why not do that too?

Ashok leyland has indigenous h series engines. Tata also has indigenous tata-cummins engine. In the 80s, both Al and Tata took engine technology from foreign manufacturers. AL sourced it from Hino Motors and obtained license manufacturing while Tata made a JV with Cummins with 50-50 partnership. AL has now developed its own indigenous version of the Hino engine and also developed a new Neptune engine while Tata has decided to stick with the JV.

Another case of JV was Suzuki - Maruti. Suzuki threatened to launch its own cars if Maruti shares were not sold to Suzuki to make it own controlling stakes. But Tata did not do that with Cummins. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean Tata is incapable of making its own engine if necessary.

 

[Kay]

For your information, the bridges in US and Western Europe, the standard crossing limit is at least 70t.

What about Iraq and Yemen? Also heavy tanks are being used in Afghanistan and Israel.

 

[Vijyes]

What about Iraq and Yemen? Also heavy tanks are being used in Afghanistan and Israel.

Are there many canals in these places? Is there any effective opposition army to oppose? So, when there is nothing to fight back, US can afford to do anything and yet win.

 

[Kay]

I dare if USA can take on Saudi Arabia. Then you will understand what I am saying. USA can only beat up isolated small and weak countries. Iraq was defeated due to Saudi help.

Also, Abrams run on Honeywell engines,not MTU.

Finally, USA hasn't had a need to cross canals too often. Iraq Afghanistan etc do not have many canals to cross while Pakistan specifically dug canals to deter India

So, your logic doesn't work - USA hasn't really shown capabilities of winning big wars on its own, doesn't have foreign engines and doesn't have to cross many temporary laid bridges.

US and Saudis are allies - so the discussion is hypothetical. Saudis have Abrams. Merkava, Leopard are heavy tanks. Merkava is designed to cross Suez Canal. Leopard is being used in Afghanistan. The weight issue is a red herring thrown around by army for not so noble reasons.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Keep thread till Arjun MBT MK2 ..................

 

[Bornubus]

RCWS

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[tharun]

1)Why Mk2 turret design is changed?
2)Is there any specific reason for the turret design change
3)Which turret is good in terms of protection and ease of change or repair

 

[Kchontha]

A collective weight reduction exercises for Arjun mk2 has been going on for the past 4 years overseen by IA's Director General of Mechanised involving the DRDO, MOD owned DPSU and private sector OEM. This will result in (if succeeded) a fully loaded 60 tonnes MBT armed with a 120 mm smooth bore cannon with an improved 1,400 hp powerplant.

 

[Vijyes]

A collective weight reduction exercises for Arjun mk2 has been going on for the past 4 years overseen by IA's Director General of Mechanised involving the DRDO, MOD owned DPSU and private sector OEM. This will result in (if succeeded) a fully loaded 60 tonnes MBT armed with a 120 mm smooth bore cannon with an improved 1,400 hp powerplant.

I think the Barath powerpack is 1500HP, not 1400HP