Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Sidd]

MoD has already ordered 118 Arjun MK2 and 40 Self Propelled artillary gun...it's better for IA to induct them now...and upgrade them later when things get ready...we can always replace imported parts in the next refit...
But OFB should also we held accountable for the current state of Arjun Mk1in the force...anybody have any update on them

 

[hammer head]

I would put my money anyday on our Arjun which is a real Beast, And it had actuslly eaten the T-90 alive in the trials a few years back. I have my faith in the current DM and ism sure further orders for Mk 2 shall be placed.

As of for the Army they too have to be ready for a change. Desert warfare is no more what it was 3 decades back, Our enemy has developed a very exhaustive obstacle system to thwart our armour thrust.
The battle to capture Forward, intermediate and deapth Nodes ( Communication centres in Desert warfare) would now require a Tank which has a high Survival quotient and that is present only with Arjun.
I have been inside the Mk 2 of Arjun and let me share with all, You dont get to see so much of space any where else. Rest the console panel is similar to that of Mk 1 along with some new panels.

Something on the survival quotient of a Tank, It is important that we understand what happens exactly to the crew when its tank is hit by a round.
1. Intense heat
2. Danger of ammo poofing off
3. Fragments of metals pieces dials and swithches injuringbthe crew and making them redundant.

Put the afore mentioned basic points on our Tanks, Arjun and Tin-90 ( pun intented) and u will get the answer.

Invincibility tommorw shall lie in our Desi products and not Videshi ones. We can have stop gap measures but For our long term goals we have to rely on Indigenous products.

 

[Pandora]

I would put my money anyday on our Arjun which is a real Beast, And it had actuslly eaten the T-90 alive in the trials a few years back. I have my faith in the current DM and ism sure further orders for Mk 2 shall be placed.

As of for the Army they too have to be ready for a change. Desert warfare is no more what it was 3 decades back, Our enemy has developed a very exhaustive obstacle system to thwart our armour thrust.
The battle to capture Forward, intermediate and deapth Nodes ( Communication centres in Desert warfare) would now require a Tank which has a high Survival quotient and that is present only with Arjun.
I have been inside the Mk 2 of Arjun and let me share with all, You dont get to see so much of space any where else. Rest the console panel is similar to that of Mk 1 along with some new panels.

Something on the survival quotient of a Tank, It is important that we understand what happens exactly to the crew when its tank is hit by a round.
1. Intense heat
2. Danger of ammo poofing off
3. Fragments of metals pieces dials and swithches injuringbthe crew and making them redundant.

Put the afore mentioned basic points on our Tanks, Arjun and Tin-90 ( pun intented) and u will get the answer.

Invincibility tommorw shall lie in our Desi products and not Videshi ones. We can have stop gap measures but For our long term goals we have to rely on Indigenous products.

My friend reply here and sharing your experience is good but we must now go one step ahead and share this with decision makers in twitter.

 

[singh100ful]

Well my friend if you not aware ,army already did this comparison.

i am aware of this comparison, hence i said it is same as comparing apple and oranges.

I damn care which is medium and which is heavy.

I care about which has higher survivability? which has high firepower? which has lower maintenance?which can cross cannals under the support of Indian army engineering and logistics divisions?

Last but not least, which can be updated at will?

I damn care if it is apple or orange, I care which can fulfill my hunger completely; which is tasty and costs less.

For army to induct arjun tanks in large numbers we need the state government of the border areas to create such infrastrucuture.

@Vijyes, during wartime we can't rely on infrastructure.

Be it ours or enemy bridges, there is always chances of bridges blown to slowdown advancing enemy force.

If we can build temporary bridges(on cannals, lakes and rivers) for Arjun tanks, then that should end the case.

DRDO has already made such modular bridges and it was shown in the DefExpo.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

some important developements regarding Indian armour in present in this recent publication from DMRL which I am posting :
https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiNs9uMv8DWAhXIv48KHXybD4oQFghmMA4&url=http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/download/11468/5932&usg=AFQjCNGTqJ5Sm7QJqFQ2eNKHXDyo4Wt2SA

Kindly take a look. It talkes about the range of products developed at DRDO including HNS Steel, ERA as well as NERA

 

[Kunal Biswas]

They do fording without any engg assistance and can be prepare within 5 mins, The snorkel is inbuilt in Arjun series tanks at rear where engine exhaust is, Other tanks takes no less than 20 mins to do the same ..

Arjun MBT has a bigger track-print, hence, its Nominal Ground Pressure is only 0.84 kg/cm2 which compares well with other MBTs of the world . Further, with a combination of low NGP and high power / weight ratio, it has commendable going ability. The proof being Arjun MBT crossing the Ravi at Lassian, without any engineer support, whatsoever and it has crossed numerous patches of marshy terrain which are marked ˜non-tankable" in going maps of the Gurdaspur-Pathankot sector

Read more: Arjun MBT weight implications | Frontier India
Frontier India - news, Analysis, Opinion
Follow us: @frontierindia on Twitter | frontierindia on Facebook

For those who don`t know about the depth detail :


T-72M1 takes no less than 20 mins to get in action ..

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Longer bridges are available and not only for Arjun`s but as well as for BM-30 or other heavy convoys ..

And those people who talk about bridges cannot take Arjun`s weight don`t say that T-90/72 also cannot use those bridges either ..

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Arjun is more maintenance free then any of the T- tanks except for T-55 ..

 

[Sidd]

They do fording without any engg assistance and can be prepare within 5 mins, The snorkel is inbuilt in Arjun series tanks at rear where engine exhaust is, Other tanks takes no less than 20 mins to do the same ..

Arjun MBT has a bigger track-print, hence, its Nominal Ground Pressure is only 0.84 kg/cm2 which compares well with other MBTs of the world . Further, with a combination of low NGP and high power / weight ratio, it has commendable going ability. The proof being Arjun MBT crossing the Ravi at Lassian, without any engineer support, whatsoever and it has crossed numerous patches of marshy terrain which are marked ˜non-tankable" in going maps of the Gurdaspur-Pathankot sector

Read more: Arjun MBT weight implications | Frontier India
Frontier India - news, Analysis, Opinion
Follow us: @frontierindia on Twitter | frontierindia on Facebook

For those who don`t know about the depth detail :


T-72M1 takes no less than 20 mins to get in action ..

=======
=======

Longer bridges are available and not only for Arjun`s but as well as for BM-30 or other heavy convoys ..

And those people who talk about bridges cannot take Arjun`s weight don`t say that T-90/72 also cannot use those bridges either ..

==========================

Arjun is more maintenance free then any of the T- tanks except for T-55 ..

I think IA is reluctant because of poor maintenance support of ArjunMK1 by OFB & of course kickbacks.
You have anything regarding that....was that intentional to not maintain MK1 or its OFB's fault

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Army own workshops for T-tanks ..

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Workshop at HVF Avadi ..

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The facilities such as these which Arjun MBT lacks, Which is the real problem of inducting them in large numbers ..

The amount spend on these facilities surpass any other weapon program budget, If Arjun or any other has to be inducted in large quantity the infrastructure has to be inducted to support them, The regiments operating Arjun have their own such workshops for overhauling them since 2008 ..

Further, Their is ill management of ordering spares which is directly from Army and OFB management, Drying up spare is not possible unless someone made a serious miscalculation which is nearly impossible unless done on purpose ..

These vehicles are made for immediate field repairs, Such vehicles are not common in other tank regiments ..

I think IA is reluctant because of poor maintenance support of ArjunMK1 by OFB & of course kickbacks.You have anything regarding that....was that intentional to not maintain MK1 or its OFB's fault

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Absolute wealth of information on FMBT as well as indegeneous afv engine developement efforts from some articles published in defense science journal july 2017 issue.
http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/issue/view/582/showToc
http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/view/11426/5924

It is open access journal and hence can be downloaded.

 

[sthf]

@shuvo@y2k10 This is really a treasure trove of information. Thanks man.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

thanks sthf.
From what I understand from reading these journal articles are:
1. Since there is a lack of clarity from army's side and an absence of PSQR for fmbt project CVRDE did an internal study between an evolutionary design (arjun based) and a revolutionary design (new platform).
2. After extensive comparisons it is decided to go for an revolutionary design (new platform) which will be highly modular in nature and can be adapted in different roles like like SPH,CMF,Heavy tracked IFV, missile carrier,BLT etc. Hence CVRDE is building a universal combat platform which seems to be inspired from ARMATA platform.
3. The tank will feature a 3 man crew seated in the hull front and the turret will most likely be unmanned similar to ARMATA. The weight should be in the range of 45-50 tons which can be scaled up and scaled down by using modular applique armour panels. The tank should be able to perform in various terrains as well as high altitude.
4. CVRDE compared between a conventional smoothbore 120mm/125mm gun, an Liquid propellant gun, an electrothermal gun and an electromagnetic gun. They found though the other guns exhibited superior performance but required huge power consumption. Hence it is decided that GNMBT will feature a conventional gun.
5. CVRDE is executing 2 parallel projects for the developement of 400 hp and 1500 hp engine and recently started working on a 700 hp engine(my guess for FICV and light tank requirement). A lot of research activities are going around regarding dielsel-electric hybrid engine.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

This is the proposed Universal combat platform aka FRCV

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

some early design drawings showing 3 man crew configuration and modular nature of FMBT

 

[patriots]

what's arjun mk2 timeline
any one have any info ..what's about weight reduction

 

[EXPERT]

@Kunal Biswas any idea what will be the price of "Turret Drive System'' of the Tank.
Lets say a tanks drive system consists of (1) Turret Drive (2) Turret Control Unit (3) Stabilization Unit.
Any idea?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I have no idea about price of tank systems ..

 

[Adioz]

View attachment 20502 This is the proposed Universal combat platform aka FRCV

What is the missile carrier role? Tank Destroyer like NAMICA?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Tracked version of akash, pinaka, prahar, mrsam, aad etc

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Another gem from the past. One of the earliest publication regarding the transmission system developed for Arjun MBT from one of its founding fathers in CVRDE M. Natarajan.
Its seems pure nostralgia when we look at Arjun Mk2 today.

 

[pmaitra]

Many people tell that Tank Ex had been a good example and Indian army would have given much time on it to develop like they gave to Arjun tank. But I think it was a failure to start with.

With a heavy Arjun Mk.1 turret and T-72 chassis it was no where near a medium tank and had worse Power by weight ratio affecting its performance. Also only 10 rounds were available to fire in Tank Ex as opposed to 22 in T-72 autoloader. We dont know where rest of the rounds were stored in already cramped up T-72 interior.

Just a personal thought =) Need your opinion. If Arjun turret is decreased in dimensions and the excess bulky Kanchan armour is traded for some lightweight armour with an Active Protection Suite ( APS ) like Trophy or German AMAP-ADS then it can be revived. Its only role would be as a medium tank in Himalaya regions where Arjuns can be deployed.

These are some of Tank Ex ( photoshoped ) pics I got :

Arjun Mk.2 turret with T-72 chassis

It a tank which has a higher rate of fire, more accurate and mobility is equal to T-72M1, Their is plenty of space in tank-ex compare to T-72M1, The rest of the round are kept in hull ..

The auto-loader in T-72/90 are maintenance intensive, The ammunition storage is not safe either due to the same auto-loader ..

It was a tank which was under 50tons with 4 men crew, It cleared its trails at Thar before it was rejected due to imported chassis which was forced due to Russian protest of using existing chassis..

Give a read to this thread ..

Hari did some writings on Tank Ex. Don't know if it was serious for the Army as a good tank is built bottom up. A heavy turret on a medium chasis would throw off its balance and obstacle clearance ability. Doesn't help that the T-90 Chasis would make the Tank-Ex under powered. Need a new engine either way.

Its not a heavy turret at all, Its not even Arjun`s turret despite it looks ..

The tank was 47tons same as a T-72M1 with better ground pressure ..

What about the shock created from firing off a round? The chasis would shake? I remember Denel talking about this years before you. Back when the guy with a Gorilla Avatar was around. Is that guy still around?

Is there any comparison between Arjun Mk I vs Tank-Ex w.r.t. range and accuracy?