Are nukes over-rated?

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We don't require or have a miniaturized Nukes tech but pakis have it,probably by Bheekh.

It's an achievement,we shouldn't lag behind.
We have miniaturized nukes (Brahmios/shaurya nuke capable etc). Pak has no known miniaturization capability


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https://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/04...-turned-india-into-a-dangerous-nuclear-power/

While the United States beats the war drums over North Korea and Iran’s long-ranged nuclear armed missiles –which they don’t even possess – Washington remains curiously silent about the arrival of the world’s newest member of the big nuke club – India.

In January, Delhi revealed a new, 800km-ranged submarine launched missile (SLBM) designated K-15. Twelve of these strategic, nuclear-armed missiles will be carried by India’s first of a class of domestically built nuclear-powered submarine, “Arihant.” India is also working on another SLBM, K-5, with a range of some 2,800km.

These new nuclear subs and their SLBM’s will give India the capability to strike many high-value targets around the globe. Equally important, they complete India’s nuclear triad of nuclear weapons delivered by aircraft, missiles, and now sea that will be invulnerable to a decapitating first strike from either Pakistan or China.

Last February, it was revealed that India is fast developing a new, long-ranged, three-stage ballistic missile, Agni-VI. This powerful missile is said to be able to carry up to ten independently targetable nuclear warheads, known as MIRV’s.


Agni-VI’s range is believed to be at least 10,000km, putting all of China, Japan, Australia, and Russia in its range. A new 15,000km missile capable of hitting North America is also in the works under cover of India’s civilian space program. India is also developing accurate cruise missiles and miniaturized nuclear warheads to fit into their small diameter.

These important strategic developments will put India ahead of other nuclear powers France, Britain, North Korea, and Pakistan, about equal in striking power to Israel and China, and not too far behind the United States and Russia.

Delhi says it needs a nuclear triad because of the growing threat of China, whose conventional and nuclear forces are being rapidly modernized.

This writer has been reporting on the nuclear arms race between India and China since the late 1990’s. China has replaced Pakistan as India’s primary nuclear threat. Even so, Indian and Pakistani nuclear forces remain on a frightening hair-trigger alert within only a 3-5 minute warning time of enemy attack, making the Kashmir cease-fire line (or Line of Control) the world’s most dangerous border.


The Bush administration began quietly aiding India’s nuclear program with nuclear fuel when India had a shortage of fissile material. Some advanced technology from the US and India’s second largest arms supplier, Israel, has also aided Delhi’s nuclear and missile delivery programs.

India, as I wrote years ago after one of its big nuclear tests, is feeling its “nuclear Viagra.” Most Indians take great pride in their strategic nuclear programs as their way into the great power’s exclusive nuclear club.

But not all Indians are so delighted, particularly those on the left who ask how their nation, with one third of all the world’s poorest people, can afford to spend tens of billions on advanced weapons, including nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, and ICBM’s.

According to the World Bank, 32.7% of Indians subsist below the international poverty level of $1.25 daily, and 68.7% on less than $2 daily. Aid agencies say 33% of Indian children are malnourished.

Delhi is making steady progress in reducing poverty and disease, and in trying to break down the pernicious caste system that dooms a quarter of Indians to lives of misery.

This, critics claim, is no time to be posturing as a world power when Mother India still has feet of clay.

The Bush administration was totally unaware that India’s advent as a major nuclear power whose weapons might one day challenge the United States. Bush & Co. wanted India to bulk up as a competitor to China, a permanent enemy of the Republican hard right. Today’s Republicans think similarly.

India is a great democracy where politicians, not generals, make policy. She is a staunch friend of the United States, where over one million Indians now live. True enough, but we have seen there are no permanent friends in world politics, only permanent interests.

One day mighty India may vie for influence with the US for Mideast and Central Asian oil, and control of the Indian Ocean’s vital sea lanes. But not today, as all eyes are on pipsqueak North Korea and dilapidated Iran.



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warrior monk

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Why/how would USA stop a war between two nuclear nations?


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It will not be allowed to go nuclear first we have a NFU policy so Pakis will have to use it initially. If Pakis threaten with nukes then Washington will threaten to sanction both Pakistan and India even china will bring its full financial muscle to threaten India and highly likely that Russians will support a ceasefire. US with Nato will pass UN security council resolutions on India eventually affecting our public's stance to put pressure on India.
 

Bornubus

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We have miniaturized nukes (Brahmios/shaurya nuke capable etc). Pak has no known miniaturization capability


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These are warheads,do you mean we have the ability to miniaturized Nukes to be fit in Shaurya and Brahmos ?
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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It will not be allowed to go nuclear first we have a NFU policy so Pakis will have to use it initially. If Pakis threaten with nukes then Washington will threaten to sanction both Pakistan and India even china will bring its full financial muscle to threaten India and highly likely that Russians will support a ceasefire. US with Nato will pass UN security council resolutions on India eventually affecting our public's stance to put pressure on India.
They could do nothing against Russia, which is a export heavy natural resource funded economy. India would be hardly affected by economic sanctions.

Also, I think the war itself will be over in two weeks before these countries can agree on what to do. It should be like Crimea annexation- fast and swift.
 

warrior monk

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I think we should stop this argument that pak capability is beyond India. They have not reached this point and probably never will . By 2020 fast breeders up and running will alone be able to produce 700 warheads annually by some estimates


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I didn't say Pak has more capability than India in fissile material. We have only created one breeder reactor harami congress party slowed down its timetable Modi forced it to be completed when modi goes by 2019 we will be screwed again.Congress will sell us to the Americans.
 

warrior monk

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They could do nothing against Russia, which is a export heavy natural resource funded economy. India would be hardly affected by economic sanctions.

Also, I think the war itself will be over in two weeks before these countries can agree on what to do. It should be like Crimea annexation- fast and swift.
In limited war Russians would cheer us but when the hajis threaten nuke you will see all our friends will force us to stop this war . Russian help will only remain till it is conventional and did you forget the influence of China on Russia , Russians need China more than India.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Imagine how many objectives we can achieve at this point.

1) De-nuclearize Pak
2) Wrestle back PoK
- Get direct access to Afghanistan and help the national govt. there if they need it
- Destroy Chinese plans to go to Gwadar through PoK

I do not think India will get such a good chance again in the future.
This is the time window to act decisively as important as 1948 and 1971 . Also right now the global economy is very messed up and at the risk of unprecedented financial collapse. US is on verge of major recession again and China has slowed down and with serious bubbles. Global capitalists don't have many places to invest their money right now. So at this stage the west will not be too eager to play sanctions games against growing market like India for long time. War can be costly and we may have to face economic hardships for short time if there is escalation. But India has seen worse days and people will be ready to face it mostly. In fact such challenges can potentially unite Indians even more and post war rebuilding with nationalist sentiments can actually boost economic growth like post war Japan.
 
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One breeder reactor is significant. No need to rush this will be a learning process where we can improve each one


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In limited war Russians would cheer us but when the hajis threaten nuke you will see all our friends will force us to stop this war . Russian help will only remain till it is conventional and did you forget the influence of China on Russia , Russians need China more than India.
When India still shares water with pak. No one thinks India needs any help


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Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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In limited war Russians would cheer us but when the hajis threaten nuke you will see all our friends will force us to stop this war . Russian help will only remain till it is conventional and did you forget the influence of China on Russia , Russians need China more than India.
We actually do not need much Russian support at this point in time. We are no longer weak like in '71 that we needed USSR's backing.

China cannot do much against India either. They have much to lose in all out war against us. Also, thanks Himalayas!
 

warrior monk

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One breeder reactor is significant. No need to rush this will be a learning process where we can improve each one


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One breeder reactor will give us 145 kgs of weapons grade plutonium which is good for 30 warheads that too when the radial and axial blankets is chopped off and we extract through PUREX which is time consuming.
 

Bangalibaba

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Imagine how many objectives we can achieve at this point.

1) De-nuclearize Pak
2) Wrestle back PoK
- Get direct access to Afghanistan and help the national govt. there if they need it
- Destroy Chinese plans to go to Gwadar through PoK

I do not think India will get such a good chance again in the future.
Completely agree,cut CPEC in POK.Period!
 
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One breeder reactor will give us 145 kgs of weapons grade plutonium which is good for 30 warheads that too when the radial and axial blankets is chopped off and we extract through PUREX which is time consuming.
30 warheads is significant. Especially if you start developing MIRVs.We will not need to make bombs from breeder only. In future space will be developed and it will possibly be using nuclear fuel . Nuclear powers of today are future space powers.


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Indx TechStyle

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I think we should stop this argument that pak capability is beyond India. They have not reached this point and probably never will . By 2020 fast breeders up and running will alone be able to produce 700 warheads annually by some estimates


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Just adding a few lines, by 2030, India will be able to produce 25-30% of its energy requirement from nuclear energy (equal to percentage of developed countries today).
And our per capita electrical output gonna be roughly 2-3 times greater than pak.
Their population will reach about our 20-25% by then. Do you have any idea, how many times our nuclear output could be of their total output? :p
Actually, I was. watching a paki talk show in which they were talking of India's successful efforts to get electricity from sun, nuclear and wind sources and crying over their own electricity crisis. :D
Pakis have khusab 1 to 4 we just have Dhruva-1 and the CANDU derivatives are also outside safeguards plus pakis have more centrifuges than india though we are making new centrifuges.
Because our installed capacity of electricity in our country is dedicated to produce electricity for people. Not killing them mercilessly with bombs.
Also, estimation of number of nuclear warheads of India and pakistan is also done by reminding their size in mind.
Otherwise, do you seriously think pak could have 10 bombs more than India? :sarcastic:
These are warheads,do you mean we have the ability to miniaturized Nukes to be fit in Shaurya and Brahmos ?
Yes, we make small reactors for civilian purposes, then why we can't do that for nukes? o_O
 

warrior monk

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I will tell you the truth about India.
Does India have the guts to test nuclear weapon ?? No
Does India have the guts to test 10000 kms range ICBM ?? No
Does India have the guts to test hypersonic missile ?? Washington asked us to go slow
Does India have the guts to test ASAT weapons even though we have exo atmospheric kill vehicle ( PDV) ?? No

We just bark we do not bite because we are economically and technically dependent on west.
 

Indx TechStyle

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30 warheads is significant. Especially if you start developing MIRVs.We will not need to make bombs from breeder only. In future space will be developed and it will possibly be using nuclear fuel . Nuclear powers of today are future space powers.


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How about putting nukes inside satellites and thenz drop them like asteroids. They may cause more destruction.
@warrior monk @Sakal Gharelu Ustad
Isn't that a good idea? :biggrin2::biggrin2:
 
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