Are Lions and Cheetahs not indigenous to India?

HEILTAMIL

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2013
Messages
238
Likes
58
No No it wasn't a hoax. P. Deraniyagala was a legendary archeologist. Among the other fossil he found near Kuruwita confirmed there were even Hypos and Gaurs were lived in Sri Lanka. The ubspecies of Gaur went extinct around 19th century in central hills.
SL historians,lol:rofl:
their capability of hoaxing and their hidden motives are wellknown!!

they are even trying to link up even mythological ravana to sinhalese people, just like they are linking lions to sri lanka, to create a pro sinhala state

p.sinahleyus:laugh:
man they are trying too much:laugh:
 
Last edited:

HEILTAMIL

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2013
Messages
238
Likes
58
@vram
how does absence of lions in southern and eastern India becomes anti-india??
may be they were present only in the western and north mostern parts,,

1.that hindu article talks about a kural, i can assure lions were never mentioned in the kural or in any classical tamil poetry

2.lions were not present in the classical chera coins, they were later packages, time of origin is what that matters

3. indian history goes way farback than 5000 years
 
Last edited by a moderator:

vram

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
368
Likes
592
Country flag
@vram
how does absence of lions in southern and eastern India becomes anti-india??
may be they were present only in the western and north mostern parts,,
Boss what i meant was the insinuation in that article and what it stood for. By question the basic parts of our heritage and cultural history they are hacking away at the roots of our civilization.
If you read my links you can see how much the lion has influenzed our culture and thought progress.
I have always asserted that India as a country is new but as a people and civilization our practises and habits are ancient and interlinked. That is one of the unifying factor in our country.
I have always questioned the motives of Romilla thapar. Having followed some of her subjects before I have come to the conclusion that She is one of those elitist people who simply cannot bare another angle of view or point of opinion. Its called the god of knowledge syndrome that prominent people get into when they forget humility. Here articles are have always been a distortion on the history of India and Hinduism.

Also the Chera coins from 100 AD DID have lions symbolism. Read my links and citations from the wiki. these are archaeologically proven facts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HEILTAMIL

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2013
Messages
238
Likes
58
Boss what i meant was the insinuation in that article and what it stood for. By question the basic parts of our heritage and cultural history they are hacking away at the roots of our civilization.
If you read my links you can see how much the lion has influenzed our culture and thought progress.
I have always asserted that India as a country is new but as a people and civilization our practises and habits are ancient and interlinked. That is one of the unifying factor in our country.
I have always questioned the motives of Romilla thapar. Having followed some of her subjects before I have come to the conclusion that She is one of those elitist people who simply cannot bare another angle of view or point of opinion. Its called the god of knowledge syndrome that prominent people get into when they forget humility. Here articles are have always been a distortion on the history of India and Hinduism.

Also the Chera coins from 100 AD DID have lions symbolism. Read my links and citations from the wiki. these are archaeologically proven facts.
my friend i did read all those articles/links you have posted,
i'm sure you are aware of semmozhi/ classical tamil museum, more archeological evidences are there

makkotai chera coins was in the first passage,the passage with lions comes in the second it doesn't talk about time of origin
almost all south indian temple has yazhi- lion, but their origin is later

i too think lions are indigenous but to western parts of India, and i neither agreed with african first man origin,
 

nrj

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
9,658
Likes
3,911
Country flag
why should we?
is it because it satisfies the needs or is it cos it is the original fact!!
It is because everything else is harping in absence of any scientific evidence. And by that I don't mean Facebook.
 

Das ka das

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2012
Messages
895
Likes
456
I was expecting some logical response with a source to validate your stand. But anyways.
I am reminded of the profoundly unscientific and downright kooky Afro-Dalit theory where the black Dalits are descended from Africans who migrated to India when it was still attached to Africa (Gondwanaland). Therefore the Dalits are the "blacks" of India. :lawl: :facepalm:
 

Sword

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
116
Likes
16
Revamping, no need for L vs T, Just find it interesting that there is a common debate on which animal is the older in india, lion or tiger:

I think the main flaw is of the comment that the lion was rare, the lion was only rare because of the british war, so after that date, its not like you're going to find much records of them in the late 18th century, or even the early 18th century, by the end of the 17th century almost all were gone, once a pride is scattered, survival is difficult. It took gujarat 100 years to get two large prides to develop into 523 today.



FACTS

- Lions live more in the open (can easily be seen miles off)
- Lions roar more frequent, loudest, travels the farthest to unify, to challenge, (easier be spoted)
- Lions live in groups (so over 20 could have been killed all at once)
- Lions were at the time indias national symbol of power (hence the british would target them)
- Every man both sides British or indian would have a fire arm (they'd shoot anything that moves in the jungle)
- Lions are more braver an curious in confrontations, wouldnt have backed down unbeknownst of fire power

+ Leopards and tiger are solitary (hence only one would have been shot at a time)
+ Leopards and tigers are far more cunning, sly and seclusive, (hence spotting one is difficult)
+ Leopards and tigers dont raor as often or as loud
+ Leopards and tigers preffer densar mangroves, swamps and jungles, (trecking there would be difficult)


These seem to be the main reason why leopards and tigers survived the war and were still in great numbers, while lions were all but gone except for a few wondering prides picked off by either poachers, hunters or calvery men.


One man shot 300 lions:
https://books.google.com/books?id=FvvtCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA365&dq=George+Acland+Smith+300+lions+india&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjz7srnzprLAhVS-2MKHcymDJwQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=George Acland Smith 300 lions india&f=false

Two rulers, bundi killed 100 lions and jahangir killed 86.

Formerly lions were far more plentiful in this part of the country, and used to live more in the open plains. One cavalry officer a good many years ago, told me he had shot eighty lions i
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA142&dq=%22years+ago%22+lion+tiger+india&id=26X4qZOuvecC&output=text

The European troops usually remain three years at each station, which permits them to make themselves comfortable. Abundance of game, (including the majestic elephant, the tiger, and some few lions, to the North-west in the desert, down to the diminutive quail,) is within a short distance of Meerut, and this is one reason for the preference most people give it.
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA146&id=_FMoAAAAYAAJ&output=text

In 1872 the Bhil Shikari of Mr. T. W. Miles brought in the skin of a full-grown Asiatic lioness which he had shot on the Anadra side of Mount Abu, and about the same year Colonel Hayland bagged four of the species nearJaswantpura, in Marwar. These were the last lions seen over the Kutch border of Marwar, and the Abu lioness was the last met with in Sirohi territory. They seem to have been more easily shot than tigers, as they returned more boldly to their "kills," thus becoming an easy prey to the Bhil Shikari who sat up for them
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA168&dq=%22marwar%22+lion+tiger&id=6ohCAAAAIAAJ&output=text


If just 5 men killed over 500 lions, in only a few decades, how much could an army of Britishers kill in two centurys 5,000, 50,000? They state that there are more hunting records of 19th century of tigers and leopards killed than lions, this is because:

1.) By then lions were already gone.

2.) An army of men are not hunters, they wouldnt have cared to record stud books for fame, they are there to eradicate anything in there path.

An to his knowledge, so far they only quoted several sources, the natural history of bombay, (which has over 200 different volumes) I dought they read all of them, and india has:

In India, there are 54,856 public libraries (Survey Report ORG-MARG) starting from English Colony Library at Chennai in 1661.
http://www.nmlindia.nic.in/pages/display/24

I dought any single person or even group has checked even 1/10,000th of them, let alone visted all the historical sites, talked to atleast 100 historians, which theres probably millions. He states he knew little to nothing about the lions history or lions in general. Quite interesting since he doesnt scholar in the 15-16th century of natural history, yet already wants to conclude on a 2,000 year census.





twenty five years back, lion, occured in many parts of the country, like
Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Gujrat, Maharashtra etc.
Then it disappeared, quickly
and not gradually. The causes of the disappearance of the lion from these places,
could be man made...
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22twenty+five+years+back%2C+lion%2C+occured+in+many+parts+of+the+country%2C+like%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22twenty+five+years+back%2C+lion%2C+occured+in+many+parts+of+the+country%2C+like%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3..30i10.482726.488818.0.489022.4.4.0.0.0.0.563.1044.0j3j5-1.4.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..0.4.1041.a1VrsQZFets




Thapar shows a picture of a 19th century starving petite asiatic lion in his book and says that this typical lion was what the indian lion always looked like, you cant compare todays inbreed wild indian lions who was starving to a fully fed african lion...thats just ridiculous, any indian lion today would hardly hold the natural selection prowess which takes several hundred years, the biggest and fittest lions dominate other prides and only the strong passes on their genes, for the 19th century lions they basically only had sisters or relatives that foul the gene pool from natural selection.

Hunting excerpts show that the older indian lion, or the true asiatic lion, was nearly just as big and powerful as the african cousin:




! Now for the Lion of Kattywar or central Gezerat. In the B. S. M. for July, 1840, is a record of one there slain, of which we read : -——“ This Lion was 9 feet, with flowing mane, and altogether much more bulky than any Tiger I have killed
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA221&lpg=PA221&dq=indian+lion+more+bulky+tiger&sig=CWF1DQmSUBpVhcaD-c49nnGHQxw&id=ivtWAAAAcAAJ&ots=NUHBTSwMnx#v=onepage&q=indian lion more bulky tiger&f=false


The Bengal lion has the mane magnificently developed, attains a very large stature, and displays equal courage with that of its African relative
https://books.google.com/books?id=DwFHAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA42&dq=%22the+bengal+lion%22+tiger+%22india%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAGoVChMI6pz96deExgIVg0GSCh0JpAAd#v=onepage&q=%22the%20bengal%20lion%22%20tiger%20%22india%22&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=YK0QAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA167&dq=%22the+bengal+lion%22+tiger+%22india%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAWoVChMI6pz96deExgIVg0GSCh0JpAAd#v=onepage&q=%22the%20bengal%20lion%22%20tiger%20%22india%22&f=false

and the dimensions of the skulls indicate that the Indian lion is of much the same size as the African animal, and the tiger.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22the+dimensions+of+the+skulls+indicate%22+tiger+lion

(asiatic lion)The lion is higher at the shoulder but shorter in the body than the tiger
https://books.google.com/books?id=ZP7fAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA199&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBGoVChMIvZ28jMSOxgIVSouSCh3QywAn#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false

The Asiatic lion in India is shorter in length than the Indian tiger, but slightly taller in shoulder height
https://books.google.com/books?id=J0rME6RjC1sC&pg=PA110&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEMQ6AEwCGoVChMIvZ28jMSOxgIVSouSCh3QywAn#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false

The lion, which was long supposed to be unknown in India, is now ascertained to exist in considerable numbers in the districts of Saharunpoor and Loodianah. Lions have likewise been killed on this side the Ganges in the northern parts of Rohilcund, in the neighbourhood of Moradabad and Rampoor, as large, it is said, as the average of those in the neighbourhood of the Cape of Good Hope. Both lions, where they are found, and tigers, are very troublesome to the people of the villages near the forest, who, having no elephants,
https://books.google.com/books?id=THsBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA248&dq=%22india%22+lion+tiger++%22ganges%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkmvDX_uPKAhVMzGMKHZdLCDU4ChDoAQghMAE#v=onepage&q=%22india%22%20lion%20tiger%20%20%22ganges%22&f=false



WHOS OLDER:

It is believed that lion entered India from Persia about 6000 years ago, and then
spread in northern India
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22It+is+believed+that+lion+entered+India+from+Persia+about+6000+years+ago%2C+and+then%22

The tiger is believed to have entered India from the northeast after the last Ice Age; most naturalists now seem to believe that the lion is the older inhabitant.
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=588&tbm=bks&q="The+tiger+is+believed+to+have+entered+India+from+the+northeast+after+the+last+Ice+Age;+most+naturalists+now+seem+to+believe+that+the+lion+is+the+older+inhabitant."&oq="The+tiger+is+believed+to+have+entered+India+from+the+northeast+after+the+last+Ice+Age;+most+naturalists+now+seem+to+believe+that+the+lion+is+the+older+inhabitant."&gs_l=serp.3...393853.396552.0.396759.3.3.0.0.0.0.147.147.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1j2.64.serp..2.0.0.tbTaFKQ8MdM


Among wild animals, one of the most familiar to the poets of the Rigveda is the
lion (simha)
. They describe him as living ... The king of beasts has, however,
remained ... The tiger is not mentioned in the Rigveda at all, its natural home
being the swampy jungles of Bengal, though he is now found in all the jungly
parts of India.

https://books.google.com/books?id=3kivAAAAIAAJ&dq=%22sanskrit%22%20lion%20tiger%20king&pg=PA147#v=onepage&q=%22sanskrit%22%20lion%20tiger%20king&f=false

Lions in the distant pass took ovet the ganges plains, as one of the oldest artifacts was a golden goblet with a lion on it, and a professor there states the older writings were more so of lions and not tigers:
https://books.google.com/books?id=xu-O9eNmQXMC&lpg=PT74&dq=%22Rajgir%22%20lion%20tiger&pg=PT75#v=onepage&q=%22Rajgir%22%20lion%20tiger&f=true

The Illustrated Weekly of India
A common belief in India, even amongst some Indian forest servicemen, is that the tiger came into conflict with the lion and was finally defeated by it and exterminated. Nothing could be further from the truth. Of the two, the lion is the older resident of India, and has a preference for a habitat which consists of open grassland and scrub or dry deciduous forest, whereas the habitat of the tiger varies from dry or moist deciduous forest with tall grass to wet tropical evergreen forest; the animal is also found in temperate montane forests of colder regions.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22could+be+further+from+the+truth.+Of+the+two%2C+the+lion+is+the+older+resident+of+India%2C%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22could+be+further+from+the+truth.+Of+the+two%2C+the+lion+is+the+older+resident+of+India%2C%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...28438.33858.0.34045.3.2.0.1.0.0.125.236.0j2.2.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..3.0.0.yP5pfK8tMEI

In the last century, lions wore quite numerous in the Gangetic basin of th Uttar Pradesh. It is a historical fact that the Moghul Emperor Babar used to hunt lions in the forests along the Jumna River between Delhi and Agra.There is a belief that the Indian lion is the original inhabitant of India and not the tiger. The tiger came into India later. This is supported by the fact that in the early Arayan literature 'singh', which is the name for lion, is mentioned and there is no mention anywhere of 'sher', or tiger. Also the carvings and statues in our ancient temples and palaces are of the lion and not of the tiger.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22There+is+a+belief+that+the+Indian+lion+is+the+original+inhabitant+of+India+and+not+the%22

As Mitra states lions are older in indias mythology
https://books.google.com/books?id=J0rME6RjC1sC&lpg=PA37&dq=%22lions%22%20%22India%22%2016th%20%20century&pg=PA36#v=twopage&q=%22lions%22%20%22India%22%2016th%20%20century&f=true

Lions were indigenous to india
https://books.google.com/books?id=w1PsYGwQdesC&lpg=PA68&dq=%22lions%22%20%22India%22%20%20Indigenous&pg=PA68#v=onepage&q=%22lions%22%20%22India%22%20%20Indigenous&f=false

Indigenous
https://books.google.com/books?id=MVoZGA2yfywC&lpg=PA57&dq=%22lions%22%20%22India%22%20%20Indigenous&pg=PA57#v=onepage&q=%22lions%22%20%22India%22%20%20Indigenous&f=false


6,000 years seems to go back much farther than human inhabitants of india, atleast to a degree where as thapar said of bringing them over by crates, again quite flawed, lions are the only true hunters of mega fauna, lions cant survive off of a single sambar or single blue bull, they have to feed the entire pride, which means lions in general must follow migrating herds, where ever theres big game such as rhino, buffalo, and elephant the lions would follow...hence were there before man, nature always balances out a prey and a predator, tigers wouldnt balance out elephants, tigers kill less than 10 elephants a year, lions kill hundreds of elephants a year, a single pride the savuti killed as much.


ARCHAEOLOGY IN INDIA


Bulletin of museums and archaeology in Uttar Pradesh

On one side are the scenes of a fight between a lioness and a tiger, a lion
divouring an antilope and a lion killing a boar
. On the other side, are seen the
struggles between a lion and a swords-man two stags ramming each other and a
lion ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22On+one+side+are+the+scenes+of+a+fight+between+a+lioness+and+a+tiger%2C+a+lion%22&hl=en&tbm=bks&spell=1&oq=%22On+one+side+are+the+scenes+of+a+fight+between+a+lioness+and+a+tiger%2C+a+lion%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...109754.114895.0.115099.4.3.0.1.0.0.502.889.0j1j1j5-1.3.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..4.0.0.1fPV7pwbsB0


The indian literature has volumes of prasie for the lion, not only the sanskrit literature but the Pali and Prakrat literature as well the latter literature of regional languages had an unparlleled praise for the grace of lion. Lion is profusely . depicted in Indian art and sculpture. In comparison to lion tiger had drawn lesser attention of the Indian intellegentia. The result was the lion became synonymous with royal power....
https://books.google.com/books?id=C_1BLUk6RYcC&lpg=PA22&dq=%22pradesh%22%20lion%20%22tiger%22&pg=PA22#v=twopage&q=%22pradesh%22%20lion%20%22tiger%22&f=false


The Asiatic lion, for example, is displayed in Van Vihar because its historic range included the state
https://books.google.com/books?id=8DT4xOpIzS0C&pg=PA1287&dq=%22pradesh%22+lion+%22tiger%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ikp2VcHfJZeeyATmxY6ICA&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22pradesh%22%20lion%20%22tiger%22&f=false

Lions were once inhabitants of the Gangis-basin through the 16th century:
https://books.google.com/books?id=GdKcAAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA87&ots=13XlBHzEqi&dq=%22Ganges%20Basin%22%20%22lions%22&pg=PA86#v=onepage&q=%22Ganges%20Basin%22%20%22lions%22&f=true



Valmik thapar states taht the mughals brought them over, the mugal empire only came into power at the 15th century, lions were noted by over a thousand sites in india way before even the 10th century.



“many familys adopted the title singh to symbolize power and strength… the tiger was never considered as a title in india…raises the question of predominance of the lion over the tiger"
http://books.google.com/books?id=J0...a=X&ei=IWaYUfb5HeWgiALTloCgAQ&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA

(A page from the mahabarata/War storys)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata

Lion occurs in 65 passages of Mahabharata, the tiger only 11
http://books.google.com/books?id=...oX-iAKt6YCYCA&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAw

The lion takes over, only in 1972 was the tiger declared Indias national animal at last replacing the lion that was ruled so meaninglessly for more than 2,000 years
http://books.google.com/books?id=xY...a=X&ei=sqCRUJrREYbmiwLq2oDQDQ&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ


Occurrence of fossil lion and spotted hyena from. Pleistocene deposits ofSusunia, Bankura District, West Bengal.
http://lkcnhm.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/s12/s12rbz423-434.pdf


Fossils were also recently found noted by Professor Chavda in the orissa area east india.

Artifact in gujarat done by a frence men in the 18th century:


Top left: Elephant and rhino fight
Top middle: Lion looking out on a rockery
Top right: Jungle scene

Bottom left: Lion biting the neck of a tiger
Bottom middle: Lion chasing a blue bull
Bottom right: Running sambar

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/L...jectID=4886609




Co-existing

In fact, the forest cover was so thick even in the 15th and 16th centuries A D. that
wild elephants buffaloes, lions
and tigers were hunted in the upper Ganga plains
(Abul Fazal, Ain-I-Akbari, pp. 283-93).
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%2216th+centuries+A+D.+that+wild+elephants+buffaloes%2C+lions%22+

Ten species of felida are found S. of the Himalaya, including the lion, tiger, leopard, cheetah, and the true cats (F.catvt).
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA203&dq=%22years+ago%22+lion+tiger+india&id=pkZMAAAAMAAJ&output=text


They described the tigers, lions, and wild elephants in the thick jungles on the
banks of the Ganges. They said that "in the Ganges Valley, the people are
numerous and happy." Harsha was so kind a king, the scholars reported, that he
did not
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22They+described+the+tigers%2C+lions%2C+and+wild+elephants+in+the+thick+jungles+on+the+banks+of+the+Ganges.%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22They+described+the+tigers%2C+lions%2C+and+wild+elephants+in+the+thick+jungles+on+the+banks+of+the+Ganges.%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...3311.7317.0.7373.2.2.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..2.0.0.krBpUkouaxE

Historical writings indicate that wild elephants, buffaloes, bison, rhinoceroses,
lions, and tigers were hunted in the Ganga- Yamuna region in the 16th and 17th
centuries
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Historical+writings+indicate+that+wild+elephants%2C+buffaloes%2C+bison%2C+rhinoceroses%2C+lions%2C+and+tigers+were+hunted+in+the+Ganga-+Yamuna+region+in+the+16th+and+17th+&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22Historical+writings+indicate+that+wild+elephants%2C+buffaloes%2C+bison%2C+rhinoceroses%2C+lions%2C+and+tigers+were+hunted+in+the+Ganga-+Yamuna+region+in+the+16th+and+17th+&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...30506.32475.0.34266.3.3.0.0.0.0.174.305.0j2.2.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..1.2.305.3p7bwoWtt3c

A few lions are said to inhabit the little desert westward of the Lonee, and wild hogs are very numerous about Balmer; but few tigers or leopards are ever heard of in Jodhpoor or Jesulmer, and are, I believe, never seen in the junguls of Beekaner. Neelgae and antelopes abound in Sind, and a few deer are to be found to eastward of the Great Desert;
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA170&dq=%22jaipoor%22+lion+tiger&id=DJ4IAAAAQAAJ&output=text

The lion (Felis leo) has now become extinct in these States, no specimen having been shot in either Marwar or Sirohi for nearly thirty years. In 1872 the Bhil Shikari of Mr. T. W. Miles brought in the skin of a full-grown Asiatic lioness which he had shot on the Anadra side of Mount Abu, and about the same year Colonel Hayland bagged four of the species nearJaswantpura, in Marwar. These were the last lions seen over the Kutch border of Marwar, and the Abu lioness was the last met with in Sirohi territory. They seem to have been more easily shot than tigers, as they returned more boldly to their "kills," thus becoming an easy prey to the Bhil Shikari who sat up for them

The tiger (Felis tigris) is still to be found in many parts of Marwar and Sirohi,
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA168&dq=%22marwar%22+lion+tiger&id=6ohCAAAAIAAJ&output=text

The district lying between this village, Tuwukkul and Lukeeke, is the favourite resort of lions and tigers: a few days previous to our arrival the inhabitants killed a very largetiger; and on the 7th we saw the recent traces of alion, in a tamarisk jungle,

https://books.google.com/books?id=P1YoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA154&dq=%22india%22+lion+tiger++%22village+of%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidntrKgeTKAhUS5mMKHXEBDdYQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22india%22%20lion%20tiger%20%20%22village%20of%22&f=false

Diad (Deesa).—This is a very hot station, but still much liked on account of the abundance of sport of all descriptions in the vicinity. It is the sole place in the known world where the lion and tiger prowl in the same jungles.
https://books.google.com/books?id=Vg0IAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA462&dq=%22india%22+lion+tiger++%22river%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjso-yN_uPKAhVK6GMKHVEHAjcQ6AEILzAA#v=onepage&q=%22india%22%20lion%20tiger%20%20%22river%22&f=false

Underneath the drawing of the lion, you may see, in the distance, a rather slylooking animal stealing along gently, which is called the Tiger. This animal is said to be much more cruel and cowardly than the lion, and to be even more bloodthirsty; but all writers do not agree on this subject. In India the tigers are the terror of man, and the animals ofthe jungle. The jungles of India, where sometimes the grass grows to nearly the height of an elephant, is the tiger's sleeping place. In the evening, the tamer animals wander down to the side of the river, to drink and refresh themselves after the heat of the day; then the tiger is found there too, waiting for them. Many fierce and bloody combats with lions, tigers, and crocodiles are said to take place near the Ganges and other rivers of India.
https://books.google.com/books?id=1JsDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA244&dq=%22india%22+lion+tiger++%22ganges%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqgby0_uPKAhUQ0GMKHaAiDjcQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22india%22%20lion%20tiger%20%20%22ganges%22&f=false


I do agree with one thing thapar said, he said that the tiger deserves to be indias national animal, this can better help Conservate the tigers numbers to being better known for conservation, he goes on to say that the lion was indias national animal for 2,000 years yet it did nothing for his preservation. But the lion is already on almost every nations flags already, so I think the tiger should hold indias flag too. But that aside, both need to be set in better awareness in india. It seems they are at a good start:







Very awesome.
 
Last edited:

Sword

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
116
Likes
16
sorry cant understand, but it looks like they're talking about his numbers increasing
 

Sword

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
116
Likes
16
The problem with the general concenses is, that how much lions were actually there in india...

another source that compares rowlands wards lions to a small record keep of asiatic lions, had 73 lions accounted for in Gujarat:


With an extra 40 just from this one source:

The Literary Panorama


books.google.com
Charles Taylor - ‎1813 - Read - More editions
A tery fine lion, sent from Loodehauneh by Colonel (Xhterlony, was landed at Calcutta, on the evening of November 13. The animal is supposed to ... existence of lions in India. The country of Cash...The lions are still very plentiful here; yet we have now killed in all, forty three; besides tiger", and two leopards. •



Its a fact, that both lions and tigers were in the same vicinity's:

Lion on the elephant and tiger hunted at once:


This is common in alot of the archaeology in uttar predesh which is several states away from gujarat an more near bengal, many hunting scenes show mugals hunting both lion and tiger in the same art.

And even alot more in different districts...The word abundant and plentiful:


Library of Natural History
books.google.com
Richard Lydekker - ‎1902 - Read - More editions
With regard to the habits of lions, it is probable from the uniformly tawny color of these animals. that they were primitively ... Then again, whereas the Indian lion was formerly abundant in the sandy plains of Rajputana, the favorite haunts

Imperial Gazetteer of India ...
books.google.com
James Sutherland Cotton, Sir Richard Burn, Sir William Stevenson Meyer - ‎1908 - Read - More editions
Until the beginning of the nineteenth century both lions and tigers appear to have been common, and the Nardak of the ... and in the neighbourhood of Sirsa and in other parts of the Punjab tigers were abundant until past the middle of the

Mammalia
books.google.com
Reginald Innes Pocock, John Reeves Ellerman - ‎1939 - Snippet view - More editions
This antagonism between lions and Europeans, with all their resources for destruction, has led to the extermination of lions in several areas of Africa where they were at one time plentiful. Man, too, was ... There is no reason to suppose that the two instances quoted in testimony of the wholesale slaughter of Indian lions in two districts were in any way exceptional where they were plentiful.

Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal
books.google.com
Asiatic Society (Calcutta, India) - ‎1840 - Read - More editions
I would rather presume, that by the adoption of the lion, the Sinha, the subduing of the lions among Indian men, viz. the ... in not having ascertained the existence of the lion in our days in Hurriana, where they were a few years ago plentiful;

That means, by just 7 sourced books, already theres nearly a 1,000 lions accounted for in the just one century in india...that also means the opine that lions were brought over in crates from africa is turning out to be more an more brittle by the account. Did the old rulers literally bring over 50,000 lions over a period of a few centurys?

What I find quite interesting is, every place a lion has fought and killed a tiger, it is on the map of ashoka:


Some experts say that lions and tigers would not meet because they both prefer different habitats, lions prefer open lands, while tigers secluded in jungles, but theres one thing that both lion and tiger need every week, which is water...and the major rivers of india stretch for hundreds to thousands of miles, this would be the hot spots in which both would be lured together and meet in confrontations. If you look at the ashoka pillars they just so happen to be next to major rivers. What is also interesting is, if you look back at the accounts of lions and tigers fighting in india, they are at the exact locations of the ashoka edicts, via:

In surat, where a lion killed a tiger there are ashoka eddicts in the same district of sopara

In bangalore a lion wounded a tiger twice in the neck, look there are many eddicts there

In Jamnagar and rajkot lions have killed tigers, and there is a edict in Girnar

In nagpur a lioness killed a tigress, look at sannthi, the same district, there are edicts there.

the same placeIn argatala a lion killed a tiger there, and theres also lion bones in bankura, and look there are eddicts there as well

In the himalayas a lion killed a tiger and John c merriam said asiatic lions killed tigers more north, there are edicts in mansera

In Bhubaneswar two lionesses killed a white tigress, there are also edicts there in dhauli

A lion killed a tiger near the ganges river, look at the gangetic plane, there are many eddicts there.


Lions have killed tigers in the wild and in captivity, whos to say the captive lions that killed the tigers werent caught from around their areas? The interesting thing about that is:

1.) The ashoka pillars most likely were already land marks of where the lion once roamed.

2.) They just happaned to land precisely or in fact exactly where the lions in the wild and captivity has killed the tigers....on major rivers... lions need water every week of their lives, these rivers would provide them sustainable life not only for them, but would be a good place for a lion to wait an stalk his prey as african lions pounce on fauna when they are drinking.

3.) How is it that much artifacts, (in the millions) in india are so accurate to real lions if only a handful of lions were brought over in crates, wouldnt the sculptress need to atleast see this animal to be accurate apearntly one or two dident travel all through india an sculpt all of them, these were different people, seeing the same animal in different districts.

Thapar says, there were no lions in europe an yet they too have many artifacts, thats wrong, greece already had lions, they used them so much for their roman games, they went extinct, then they used lions from both north africa and india, which by then alexander them got a hold of caspian and bengal tigers to add to their collections of beasts. These are real animals, not mythos as most of them state. The lion heart in britain came from real live lions given to them in the 12th century, the latest dna testing showed they were barbary lions.


Look at the aesop (european) and unwar-i-suhali (indian mixed persian) records, these date back almost the farthest, an the description given about their quality's in the wild is almost similar to what we see on videos, much like the lion, tiger and traveller, or the lion tiger and the fox fables...many real life incidents show this in circuses and menageries of the past 19th century...identically.

We've only begun to scratch the surface in the english literature records, let alone what would be written in indias native records which would be in the billions...as for the book exotic aliens, this is coming from only several people, who even some of them stated they knew nothing of the lion till recent, so these are more so debaters who has only begun to speculate, there are more than 10,000+ natural history historians in india each scholaring in different centurys, its kinda a no brainer to not publish a book with a 2,000+ year conclusion when they havent even contacted all the hot spot area library's and university's near each one of the ashoka edicts. Again science via ecology and biology would only highlight that cave lions followed the mammoth, african lions followed the bush elephant, and indian lions would have followed the indian elephant as mega faunas are needed for a group animal as large as the lion.
 

Sword

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
116
Likes
16
You can read here another 100+


*This image is copyright of its original author






*This image is copyright of its original author






What kinda crap is theres only 40 or so lions ever recorded in hunts of india? Theres well over a 1,200 from just 8 or 9 books covering not even a full century. Does he honestly think that tens of 1,000s of other books from other regions of india would hold zero hunt records as well? Any one who states the tiger drove the lion out of india is mentally retarded.

Jam sahib of nawanagar:


http://www.zoosprint.org/ZooPrintMag...7/July/3-8.pdf


Vadodara, Dec 27 (PTI) Besides rejoicing a substantial rise in number of lions to 411 in Gujarat's Gir National Park, what has attracted attention of experts is the unique behavioural pattern being displayed by two male lions who now rule the biggest ever pride comprising 32 felines.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/wire-news/two-kingsforest-who-rulebiggest-pridegir-park_640135.html
 
Last edited:

Sword

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
116
Likes
16
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_tiger

As showed, tigers have a natural corridor in ramthanbore, which is quite close to the state of gujarat, where lions are, so in a hypothetical situation, what would happen in a conflict between two of the most powerful of predators in india.



Head of the smithsonian Biologist John seidensticker:

it has been suggested that the tiger may have a proportionally smaller head than the lion.
https://books.google.com/books?id=X...a=X&ei=qQCWVL3fDcbx oATVx4GwBg&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg

http://www.ghumakkar.com/wp-content...in-Zoo-Left-Lion-Middle-tiger-Right-Tiger.jpg

Captive conflict accounts in india:

The Pioneer Mail and Indian Weekly News


LIONESS KILLS TIGRESS. - NAGPUR, 26TH October. In the Maharaj Bagh, while transferring wild animals from one cage to another, a lioness attacked atigressand killed her. The animal was subsequently captured and placed in its cage.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22In+the+Maharaj+Bagh% 2C+while+transferring+wild+anima ls+from+one+cage+to+another%2C+a +lioness+attacked%22&hl=en&tbm=b ks&oq=%22In+the+Maharaj+Bagh%2C+ while+transferring+wild+animals+ from+one+cage+to+another%2C+a+li oness+attacked%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...3856.9093.0.9922.2.1.0. 1.0.0.258.258.2-1.1.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..2.0.0.xZLJjaEMlf4



Zoo tiger surrcumbs presented to the Corpo ration zoo by Jamnagar State In 1949 died on Monday of Injuries sustained in a deadly combat with Leo

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ith+lion&hl=en




"One of only 70 white tigers left in the world has died a month after being wounded in a fight with two younglions in an Indian zoo.
Nandan Kanan animal park'

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=MWSB&p_theme= mwsb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=2 00&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB82D10F0087120&p_field_direc t-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sor t=YMD_date&s_trackval=GooglePM






Double edged sword: Both the tiger and the lion population would be affectedThe NGO claims that the prey base of Kuno is limited, and is not sufficient even for the lions that are to be shifted. So, there would be intense competition between the lions and tigers, straying from Ranthambore, for the same prey. However, it is not just the relocated lions that would be at a disadvantage, as the tigers in Ranthambore could be equally impacted. As competition for prey increases, the lions may venture out of Kuno in search of food and enter Ranthambore through the shared corridor. This would then reduce the prey base of the tigers. Not only that, lions may even attack and kill tigers.http://www.indiawest.com/blogs/tiger-lio



Kailash Sankhala Indian naturalist
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad19/JinenFordragon/boldchamppics031-2.jpg

Indian Expert Damoo Dhotre:
http://www.circusesandsideshows.com/...amudhotre.html

THE FAMOUS Dhotre, an Indian animal trainer who appeared with many European and American circuses during the 1940s and 1950s was once asked whether a lion or a tiger would win in a battle to the death. Dhotre said he would back a lion. although the tiger is faster, the lion is at least equal in strength. Although the tiger is as fierce and savage as any animal in the jungle the lion has boundless courage" he said in his memoirs in 1961 The heavy mane around the lion's neck also makes it difficult for another animal to grip the lion's throat with his teeth, according to Dhotre.
http://www.google.com/search?q=THE+F...rce=newspapers



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._A._Nilakanta_Sastri

"References to the lion in the Padirruppattu, one to the dread of other animals in mountain slopes haunted by lions, and the other to the lion killing the tiger.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mount...=1&btnG=Search



Ten species olfelida are found S. of the Himalaya, including the lion, tiger, leopard, cheetah, and the true cats (F.catvt).
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA203&dq=%22years+ago%2 2+lion+tiger+india&id=pkZMAAAAMA AJ&output=text

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayas


http://s12.postimg.org/r5hq2mh9p/Screenshot_57.png

Besides this weird notion, there is also the terrific enthusiasm for
sound. During one of the stretches, the Halliburton voice tells of
looking down into a pit and perceiving an Indian lion, supposed to be
one of the very few in existence, giving battle to a tiger. It is a
thrilling fight, but Mr. Futter has overdone the inoculation of sound.
On other occasions the scenes are silent and later one hears the
breaking of a tree as it is pushed over by an elephant.
http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?...639C946294D6CF

WILD

An account which took place at india in Surat:


The fauna there includes a few tigers:
https://books.google.com/books?id=63...ed=0CA4Q6AEwBA

Tapi river is the home to the natural habitats of many wild animals snakes and many more.
http://www.ecoindia.com/rivers/tapi.html
One of the biggest tigers recorded came from surat:
https://books.google.com/books?id=I7...=0CAwQ6AEwAzgK



JUNGLES OF INDIA THRILLING SCENE

Our destination was the province called Guzerat, which is a large peninsula northwest of Bombay. We could have proceeded thither in a short time by sea, but Mr. Barrill took the circuitous land route, in order to see thecountry. At the end of the first day's journey we en camped at the base of a range of mountains " the height of which I supposed was fifteen hundred feet. These mountains extend entirely through western India. In the vicinity of our encampment, they were steep and stony. On aU sides were forests of bamboo, presenting a straighter and more regular aspet, than any woodland I had ever HINDOO HABITS….

At Domus, Mr. Barrill disposed of his tusks to a Parsee merchant, for about one-half the price he could have obtained if he had conveyed them to Surat. But he was glad to ged rid of the burden. Domus -n-as a small town. The inhabitants were courteous enough, but we understood that some of them were strongly suspected of being engaged in piracy. Our servants informed us that the Parsees were very numerous in the country northward, and their enterprise was the chief source of its prosperity. At noon the second day after our arrival at Domus, we came within sight of the celebrated city of Surat. Its towers and pagodas gave it an imposing appearance… but as we approached the walls age and decay were strikingly evident. This city is situated on the Taptee, about tvrenty miles from the point where the mouth, or bay, empties into the gulf of Cambay. It is about six miles in circumference, and shaped like a bow, the cord being the Taptee, having near its centre, a small castle garrisoned by a few sepoys and Europeans. On ofner sides, the town is surrounded by a wall, flanked with semicircular towers. Without the walls we found some good European houses, formerly occupied by the French, but now, the residence of English officers; but the houses within the town were very inferior, consisting only of timber frames filled up with bricks, their upper stories projecting over each other. The streets were narrow and irregular. Only small boats, called ketches, can ascend the river to Surat " yet the city once had a very extensive* commerce.

We remained three days in Surat. During this period, Mr. Barrill made some valuable acquaintance among the English, and purchased some small articles which he deemed necessary for our comfort. We found that nearly all the business of the city was carried on by the Parsees " the Hindoos being generally as indolent as they were superstitious…

The jungle was beautiful and luxuriant " the dark green foliage of the bamboo contrasting finely with the lighter verdure of the palm and the blossoms of numerous other trees for which I had no name. The encounter of the day before had left an impression not easily effaced, and we took care to avoid, as far as we could, consistently with our designs upon the game, the thickest jungle, where it was difficult to see beyond a few yards on each side. The Hindoos were all eye as they marched, and I thought, that each moment, one of them shuddered as if he expected the terrible tiger to spring from the bushes and dash him to the ground. We had proceeded about six or seven niiles, without meeting with any animals, deemed worthy of our rifles, and were growing more confident in our march. ^Lr. Barrill and I had fallen into conversation about the contrast between the forests of India and South Africa, when a tremendous roar, and the shrieks of the Hindoos, rang fearfully in our ears, and brought our shuddering horses to a halt. The case flashed on our eyes we turned. The Parsees stood as if paralyzed " the Hindoos shrieked and danced, and seemed senseless with fright. Hurrying away through the jungle we could occasionally catch a glimpse of the striped hack of a tiger ' and a faint shriek told us what he had dared to seize foi his meal. Humanity and our own burning thirst for distinction in this region, new to us, banished all feelings uf dread, and we started away, with ready rifles in pursuit, the rest of the party following, not knowing what else to do for safety. The tiger had disappeared beneath the thick foliage of the bushes, and the cessation of the victim's shrieks left us no clue to the ferocious animal's whereabouts.


When suddenly, within about fifty yards, sounded the tremendous voice of a lion " a sound we could never forget; and a succession of awful growls, snaps, and loud rustics among the bushes, led us to believe that the two tyrants of the forests were contending for the mastery. Anxious to gain a view of such a fearful struggle, we pressed forward^ till emerging from a clump of bushes, we beheld almost at our horse's feet, the lion and tiger rolling over and over, in a conflict which only death could interrupt. The mangled Hindoo was lying senseless upon his face, within a few yards of the ferocious combatants. We did not fire, but reserved our bullets till the conflict should destroy one of the beasts.

It was a horrible struggle. The tiger was quite as large as the lion, and much quicker in his movements. But the lion showed a decided superiority of strength, and his great mane effectually covered his head. Still his hack and sides were torn hy the tiger's claws, and for some minutes the contest was doubtful. Both possessed equal courage and determination, and no disposition was evinced to have a drawn battle. It was one of the compensations of nature. The tyrants of the woods, who had so long preyed upon the weaker animals, were now paying each other in due form. Draw near, ye ghosts of mangled cattle, stags and lesser beasts, to gloat over your revenge! Our prescence seemed a matter of indifference to the combatants, so intent were they in that struggle of strength and activity. But the endurance of the lion prevailed " seizing the tiger by the throat, he turned it on its back, and with his strong claws tore open its belly, and, thus put an end to its ferocious life. Hail, king of beasts, for so thou art I This had scarcely been achieved when simultaneotis balls from our rifles, stretched the lion beside the foe whom he had vanquished, and their blood mingled among the grass….

We immediately dismounted, hastened to the wounded Hindoo, while his companions busied themselves in striking their spears into the helpless tiger " and patting the head of the lion. Raising the poor fellow, we found that he was so dreadfully bitten and torn about the throat and breast, that his chance of living was but small. He could not speak. After a short time spent in reeking their cowardly vengeance on the tiger, his Hindoo companions said that they had quite enough of hunting tigers on foot, and that they would take the wounded man back to Elaw as quickly as possible. Mr. Barrill agreed with them that it was the best course they could pursue, and gave them the skin of the tiger to take with them as a kind compensation for their fright. They constructed a rude litter of branches, on which they laid their wounded companion " then skinned the tigers-cutting ofi" his head " while our Parsees were skinning the lion, and then bade us adieu. The lion was not as large as those we had killed in Africa " His skin was of a yellowish hue, the mane being some shades deeper. In other respects, there seemed to be no difference between the lions of Asia and Africa.

The tiger was a beautiful animal, the skin being striped as splendidly as that of the African zebra. The form resembled that of the common cat. The eyes were of a greenish grey color, having a ferocious glare " and the appearance of the teeth and claws was enough to send a thrill of terror through a person of timid nerves. The roar of this monster, which was the first intelligence of his presence we had received, resembled that of the lion, but was not so deep and grand. When enraged as it was during the conflict with the lion, it makes a shrill cry which pierces the ear in a most disagreeable way.

http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbo...1000110811/209

http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbo...1000110811/211

It states non-fiction:
http://www.readanybook.com/author/peregrine-herne-10860

It states it’s a autobiography:
http://www.gregorrarebooks.com/cgi-b...ml?id=DHdpg6en

Here is Herne being noted as one of the first hunters of his era:
http://www.shakariconnection.com/ear...ter-books.html



There is also a fight in india:

Most think it is a british film, but its actually a american film:



http://www.chicagofilmarchives.org/c...object_id/2728

Castle Films was a home-movie distributor founded in California by former newsreel
cameraman Eugene W. Castle (1897–1960) in 1924. The company originally produced business and advertising films. By 1931 it had moved its principal office to New York City. In 1937, Castle branched out into8 mmand 16 mm home movies, buying newsreel footage and old theatrical films for home use. Castle's first home movie was a newsreel of theHindenburg explosion.[1] That same year, Castle launched his "News Parade" series, a year-in-review newsreel; travelogues followed in 1938. Castle also released sports films, animal adventures, and "old time" movies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Films



Gangaikonda Cholapuram Temple Lion Water well

The ganges yamuna

It is known from historical evidence that the 16th and 17th centuries, Ganga-Yamuna region was covered with dense forests. These forests wild elephant , buffalo , rhino, lion, tigerand bison was the victim of

https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%97%E0%A 4%BE_%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%80

31’st of March, 1851, In the “Landshuter Zeitung” (“Landshut Newspaper”)A drama at the Ganges.

I’ll tell of one of these terrible fights, one you wouldn’t see again in a hundred years, a scene of blood and death that forever will haunt my mind. […] The lion and his rival, the tiger, need air and space in great quantity. Here, and only here, are they really able to live and to rule. […] (A long description of lions and tigers and how fierce both of them are, the actual event follows now) A Malayan slave ran towards us and shouted: “Lion! Lion! Down there, at the river! It’s a big, fierce lion!”

“One more reason to take shelter in the house,” continued the colonel. “Come, my friends, take the weapons! The lion is a troublesome guest.”

We closed the house’s doors; the slaves got weapons and guarded the basement. We, to welcome this guest admirably, climbed up to the gallery from which we could overlook the Ganges. An unusually big lion walked haughtily down there, not looking around as he does when he has to fight an opponent, but instead ambling slowly and thoughtfully like a philosopher, he walked there. He stopped from time to time to rest a minute, and then continued majestically his way. Under a magnificent palm, he stopped, turned around two times, and finally lay down in the shadow. This was the rest of a magnificent ruler that had nothing to fear from any adversary. He rested easily, as do those who have made no enemies.

Scarcely ten minutes had the lion lain there, when suddenly, he jumped up as though struck by lightning, roaring very deeply and scratching the ground with both hind legs, as though challenging an adversary. He lowered his head and, in a single bound, jumped at the palm’s stem to look about, to the right and left. Then he jumped down to ground to wait again, and his gaze lingered at one particular spot on the horizon.

“An enemy seems to approach,” the colonel said, “a terrible enemy, if we look at the lion’s reaction. I predict that it will be a fierce fight, and many rich people would pay a great sum to see it if they were here right now.”

“And why,” I asked, “don’t they stage some fights from time to time, if they would pay so much?”

“Because what we have here is very rare. The lion won’t fight against a human but against a fierce animal, one as strong as he himself, such as a rhinoceros, an elephant, or a tiger.”

“A tiger! It’s really a tiger!” one of us shouted pointing a finger at the dangerous beast which jumped in huge leaps towards the lion. It was breathtaking, our eyes wandered from the lion to the tiger and from the tiger to the lion. The lion still was lurking. It was a terrible spectacle and we wagered who will win. Now they stood eyeball to eyeball with each other. They’d seen each other and wouldn’t leave unless one of them was lying dead at the ground. The tiger was unbelievably huge and beautiful with his long black stripes distributed all over his yellowish body. His fearful eyes seemed to burn, his head was lowered. We stood, at the most, 200 feet away. The sun shone brightly, so we could see their every move. I don’t think I have to mention that our hearts were in our mouths. The tiger closed in on the lion, but the lion remained calm. In the latter, we could see the force of the calmness in his powerful position; in the tiger, one could believe to see the violent tension of someone who has the impudence to disrespect a close danger, one who had the will to assault it. We could see a certain twitch in his legs, but he wasn’t about to flee. Did the crouching tiger want to kill the lion? I believe it did, and I admire the royal tiger’s courage, he would rather lie down in a burning furnace than be accused of cowardice!

The lion had not moved at all, but we could see what was happening inside him by looking at his erected mane. From time to time, his countenance suggested a submissive gesture. But he, the king of animals, didn’t want to show any fear, but rather boldness, to his opponent. A duel was now inevitable. For the tiger it may be a glorious day, but for the lion it was certainly a festive day.

With one leap, they could grab, bite, tear each other; with one leap they’d jump over the space of 20 feet that separated them from each other. Then, they leaped! The crash equaled the crash of two ships in a tempest! We could hear the bones breaking under the weight of their terrible paws, we could see chunks of flesh falling to the ground. They made no sound, but their gruff moaning indicated their rage and pain. Neither showed superiority and we wondered who would win. If the lion were to think that he had overpowered the tiger, the latter could earn the victory with a single move, shattering the surprised lion.

The fight now lasted 10 minutes, and suddenly, as if they came to an agreement, both loosened their grip to gain their breath again. It was the motionlessness of the rage, but it was the calmness of the king. A few moments later, an unexpected incident which resurrected the fight took place: The tiger, which saw not only his defeat but also his death, used the moment. While his opponent was licking his wounded hind leg, he leaped 10 feet up the palm’s stem and stayed there. The lion looked around and couldn’t see his foe anymore; he roared, looked upwards, and he jumped at the tiger. But in this position it was impossible to continue the fight. They knew that only one of them would survive. The tiger jumped down and the lion followed him, but his leg caused him to shiver. A long fight wasn’t possible any more. Their claws were blunted, their jaws were tired, and they had lost much blood.

The fighters’ jaws were wedged in each other as they bit at each others’ heads; we could feel the bones crushing. Suddenly the tiger retreated, wavered and fell down. The lion seized him with his terrible paws and it seemed like he wanted to punish the defeated opponent for his resistance.

He didn’t loosen his grip, the merciless king of the forest, the feared lord of the wilderness; he tore the tiger apart, he crushed its skull. Suddenly a crocodile appeared out of the river. It seized the lion at his injured hind leg and dragged him into the water. The only remains of this fight were the dead tiger under the palm and some read streams of blood on the water surface.
[/b]eA tiger and lion fight near bangalore, the tiger is bitten terribly in
the throat before both injured go seperate ways:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,7165143&hl=en



So most likely, that the 4 lions facing all directions were meant to represent that the lions once ruled the four corners of india.north, south, east and west:

The pillars of Ashoka are a series of columns dispersed throughout the Indian subcontinent, erected or at least inscribed with edicts by the Mauryan king Ashoka during his reign in the 3rd century BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Ashoka
 

Sword

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
116
Likes
16
On the most part, even among some experts on the indian lion, some say that the tiger is the main reason for the asiatic lion for going extinct, this is highly doughtful, since lions live in large groups, a tiger will be contending on most cases with a coalition of lions or a pride, as lions are gregarious animals, if that were true, then there should be many accounts of tigers killing multiple lions at once even in captivity, but the records dont show that:

Two lions kill a bengal and rip off his legs
:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...ortby=dateDesc

(Frankfurt zoo)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfu...logical_Gardens.


two lions kill tiger named poona:
https://books.google.com/books?id=fiAEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA54&dq =two+lions+kill+tiger++clyde+bea tty&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5gIDH i5fLAhVN-GMKHRgKAYwQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q= two%20lions%20kill%20tiger%20%

20clyde%20beatty&f=f
alse


two other young lions kill and eat young tiger:https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,7019407&hl=en

During their first performance this spring and during the act two lions attacked and killed a tiger Mr. Beatty stayed in the cage during the entire fight to keep the other animals from getting into it - - - Mr. Beatty says no matter how well you think you know a tiger or lion, you still cannot trust'them The quiet ones are often the most dangerous

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/37645569


Liberec (Czech pronunciation: German: Reichenberg) is a city in the Czech Republic. Located on the Lusatian Neisse and surrounded by the Jizera Mountains and Kozákov Ridge: lions kill white tigress in leberic czech zoo.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat...Republic_N.htm


Herald-Post from El Paso, Texas · Page 3 Friday, July 14, 1972
Montana avenue. Tiger Pelt To Go To High Bidder Zoo director Ray Arras said today that plans are being formulated to.call for bids of the pelt of Rajah, the Zoo's Bengal Tiger that was killed in a fight with two lions late yesterday. Arras said the City Clerk's office has unofficially received inquiries from 'ex-students of El Paso High School about the availability of the pelt. The school's mascot symbol is a tiger. A board of inquiry will also be set up by Zoo and Park officials to probe the tiger-lion fight yesterday at feeding time when a door was opened between the two pits holding the animals. The male and female lion attacked the tiger and the Bengal's neck was broken.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...s +tiger+dies&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1


Some interesting facts:


http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35987

http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35256

http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35515

if tigers couldnt have out competed 40 lb wild dogs, how could they have out compete 20+ 400 lb lions?
 
Last edited:

Sword

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
116
Likes
16
Professor: John Campbell Merri
am


http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/merriam.html

The asiatic lion was known to kill the siberian tiger when they roamed farther north of india:
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...0/ed-1/seq-39/

Russian artifact of a lion biting the neck of a tiger:


Archaeologists discovered almost 5,000 decorative gold pieces including earrings, pendants and beads. The pieces contain representations of many local animals from the period including panthers, lions, bears and deer
.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_art
 

VaghaDeva

sum gai
Regular Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
378
Likes
158
On the most part, even among some experts on the indian lion, some say that the tiger is the main reason for the asiatic lion for going extinct, this is highly doughtful, since lions live in large groups, a tiger will be contending on most cases with a coalition of lions or a pride, as lions are gregarious animals, if that were true, then there should be many accounts of tigers killing multiple lions at once even in captivity, but the records dont show that:

Two lions kill a bengal and rip off his legs
:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...ortby=dateDesc

(Frankfurt zoo)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfu...logical_Gardens.


two lions kill tiger named poona:
https://books.google.com/books?id=fiAEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA54&dq =two+lions+kill+tiger++clyde+bea tty&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5gIDH i5fLAhVN-GMKHRgKAYwQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q= two%20lions%20kill%20tiger%20%

20clyde%20beatty&f=f
alse


two other young lions kill and eat young tiger:https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,7019407&hl=en

During their first performance this spring and during the act two lions attacked and killed a tiger Mr. Beatty stayed in the cage during the entire fight to keep the other animals from getting into it - - - Mr. Beatty says no matter how well you think you know a tiger or lion, you still cannot trust'them The quiet ones are often the most dangerous

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/37645569


Liberec (Czech pronunciation: German: Reichenberg) is a city in the Czech Republic. Located on the Lusatian Neisse and surrounded by the Jizera Mountains and Kozákov Ridge: lions kill white tigress in leberic czech zoo.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat...Republic_N.htm


Herald-Post from El Paso, Texas · Page 3 Friday, July 14, 1972
Montana avenue. Tiger Pelt To Go To High Bidder Zoo director Ray Arras said today that plans are being formulated to.call for bids of the pelt of Rajah, the Zoo's Bengal Tiger that was killed in a fight with two lions late yesterday. Arras said the City Clerk's office has unofficially received inquiries from 'ex-students of El Paso High School about the availability of the pelt. The school's mascot symbol is a tiger. A board of inquiry will also be set up by Zoo and Park officials to probe the tiger-lion fight yesterday at feeding time when a door was opened between the two pits holding the animals. The male and female lion attacked the tiger and the Bengal's neck was broken.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...s +tiger+dies&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1


Some interesting facts:


http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35987

http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35256

http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35515

if tigers couldnt have out competed 40 lb wild dogs, how could they have out compete 20+ 400 lb lions?



oh fuck this are we really going to get into a "Lion vs Tiger debate"

 
Last edited:

VaghaDeva

sum gai
Regular Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
378
Likes
158
Did you forget that male lion don't even hunt that often and the females practically play fight in a group with buffaloes compared to how a tiger kills them and that tigers actually fight standing on both legs while a lion swipes with one paw which gives the tiger a greater advantage.

 
Last edited:

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top