Are Indian Muslims better off?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by keshtopatel, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. keshtopatel

    keshtopatel Regular Member

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    Actor, producer, director Feroze Khan had kicked off a major storm in Pakistan with his comment that Muslims in India are better off than Muslims in Pakistan.

    "I am a proud Indian. India is a secular country. Muslims in India are making lot of progress. Our President is a Muslim, our Prime Minister a Sikh. Pakistan was made in the name of Islam but look how the Muslims are killing each other," Khan has been quoted as saying during the launch of his brother Akbar Khan's Taj Mahal.

    The statement given by Feroz Khan in Pakistan in the state of alcohal is 100% right. They say that when man is intoxicated he speaks truth.

    In India, we find Khan clan leading the Bollywood pack. Azruhdin was Indian Cricket Captain, and despite being charged of corruption (which he himself agreed) he was allowed to become MP.

    Wipro Muslim boss is a billioner (in dollar terms not rupees).

    I think Muslims in India are better of than Hindus in Malaysia..........

    What do you think? Are Indian Muslims doing better than Pakistani Muslims despite living in a Hindu majority India?

    And if so, why complain of discrimination?
     
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  3. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Mods please close the thread, too many hindu-muslim BS threads being opened
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The Muslims have realised that without education and a control over the size of the family, there is no way they can be emancipated.

    Therefore the Modern Muslim is not the old stereotyped chap. There are the illiterates as in all other communities, but then the awareness has dawned on them and that is a positive change.

    I have interact with many working class Muslim and they are now quite clear as to what is the need of the hour.

    As far as Malaysia is concerned, which I have visited, the Indians of all religions are basically the blue collared workers.
     
  5. mehwish92

    mehwish92 Founding Member

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    i think there is a great change in india's new generation, as compared to the previous generation. We are less communalized (for the most part), more tolerant, and more secular. Muslims are beginning to realize that nothing is possible without education. More and more private companies are hiring educated Muslims and the educated Muslims are beginning to climb up the ladder.
    Private companies don't care about religion. Their main goal is to make money. They don't care if you're a Hindu or a Muslim. If you're talented, you're hired.

    Our politicians are still stuck in the past, however.

    Time will heal all wounds. Give India another 20 years or so, I'm sure it we will see a huge improvement in terms of minority rights & equality.
     
  6. peacecracker

    peacecracker Regular Member

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    if Indian Muslims are better off, then why Ghettoism is growing among Muslims in India? Ghettos represents the distrust,hate(may be religious),aspiration for a new order where by they will dominate(the so called Oppressors). Firstly, Assuming Minorities to be dissolved into Hindu Identity is Wrong.
    By Hindu Identity - it is the Culture and Customs of India. Minorities especially Muslims for majority have aspirations and copies Arab life styles,culture.

    I have read somewhere the Polio Injection to be done to Muslim Kids were vehemently opposed by their Community due to the belief that these injections are made to destroy Muslim Boys Fertility. Why does Muslims majority live in poor conditions ? Except for Kerala or South Indian Muslims, Most of the Others Simply fails to integrate with the Society.
    Isn't GoI provided them reservation and other protections?
    Isn't Muslims given chance to educate and integrate with the Society?
    Why is it that poverty,conspiracy theories based on hatred pops up more in that Community?

    For One, I agree that Terror unleashed onto Muslims by the Rightwing Powers of India and Demolition of Babri Masjid are may be few of the reasons Muslims in Future also will not Integrate into the Society.
    Look at Other Minorities like Christians,Sikhs etc. they have fully integrated. My belief is because of the Eternal Fear of Co-religionists and the Taboo of friendship with disbeliever by the Radical groups are major reason why Muslims are not yet "coming out".
     
  7. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Indians in general are better off than Pakistanis, because governments are more accountable, and there is no institutionalized discrimination against people on the basis of Region or Religion.
     
  8. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    As if everything was fine with muslims in India before Right winger monsters started their attrocities against muslims. They were all educated and were mingling with society before that . Its very easy to put blame on others instead of taking up the responsibility. How many mullas preach peaceful co existence and try to impart modern education to kids. Its not a phenomenon just in India but whole Asian subcontinent. very few are educated and they are least bothered to try and educate their brothers. Looks like this polio injection is also an Idea of Right wingers to restrict muslim population from growing.
     
  9. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is a Muslim neighborhood close to where I live in Delhi. That's also a good place to buy stuffs of daily use. Not once but several times have I heard there from locals that "Price rise and 2-g scam are actually BJP-RSS conspiracy to destabilize the central government". According to my opinion Muslim-community invents and believes in conspiracy theories, and the main reason lies in the deep sense of insecurity. Many believe that Hasan Ali is being wrongfully targeted because he is a Muslim. One reason behind this belief might be the wrongful detention of Muslim youths after terror-activities inside India.

    Its very important that Muslim community of India is made to feel that Muslims are equal stakeholders in the present and future of India. India must adopt uncompromising attitude against all Reactionary forces. All Indians including Muslims must feel safe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  10. Sabir

    Sabir DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    Condition of the Muslims in India is not contrary to the condition of average Indians. May be there are more poors or illeterates, because many of the Muslims are descendants of converts from lower segment of indian society and Muslim leader , barring a few hardly took any step to motivate their fellow men to go for modern education. But the situation is changing fast as india is changing. In todays society, in the age of electronic media it is difficult for the mullahs to keep on controlling the Muslims. Other religions too have gone through similar stages that the Muslims are going through now. think of the Christians in medieval Europe or Hindus in early part of 19th centuryand period before that- but they eventually came out of the stagnancy and religious corruption. Muslims have a better chance to progress in India because of liberal political system and competition from non-Muslims than in any so called holly land.

    At present the posts of Vice President, the deputy Chairman of Rajya Sabha, The Attorney General, the Chief Election Commissioner, a Judge of Suprme Court (would be Chief justice?)and many other important posts are occupied by Muslims. The Muslims should not have any complain of biasness against them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  11. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Well i have mixed reaction on this. I got maid who is Muslim but she called herself seema ,a hindu name, just to avoid people that she is muslim .well i dont have any Probelms. On the other hand my barber is Muslim. we love him.he earned good money bought his own shop. bought new car. he is young 27 or 28 yrs old. he has Muslim name.people knows him by Muslim name. once he told me his dad gone to U.P to build a mosque.His father is builder. i dont see any probelms
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2011
  12. mehwish92

    mehwish92 Founding Member

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    ^^ there are many cases where maids hide their real identity under the garb of a hindu name. Reason for this is that many Hindus will not hire them if they are Muslim. I know of several such stories myself, where the Hindu families fired the maid after they found out she was a Muslim.

    Likewise many non-Muslims in Pakistan have Muslim names (especially Christians).

    As I said earlier, it will be a few more decades until this discrimination ends. We have improved a lot in recent years.

    P.S. Seema is actually quite common among Muslims as well. I know a few Pakistani Muslim women as well as Indian Muslim women named Seema.
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    To answer the question: Are Indian Muslims better off? In one word, No.

    Why?

    Source: http://www.education.nic.in/elementary/Consolidated_Minutes_Education_Secretaries_28-30_Jan_2010.pdf

    Some more information:
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  14. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    One must also ask and seek answers to some very important questions:

    -Are Indian Muslims better off? If no then why is this so?
    -Are Indian Muslims at the same social level thorough the country or is it more of a region specific phenomenon?
    -How do Indian Muslims compare with non-Muslims on social indices in different states?
    -What can or should the government agencies and/or the civil society do to better their situation?
    -What initiatives should come from the Muslim community to improve their social status?
    -What are the stumbling blocks that prevent the Indian Muslims from partaking in social mobility?
     
  15. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I want to answer the one in red with this report: Maharashtra: Polio returns as Muslims refuse vaccine.

    BTW, you put forward some very thoughtful questions Mayfair. I think we all need to ponder over these things.
     
  16. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    The reasons for that are dietary. Most Hindus that can afford to hire maids are typically vegetarian, or otherwise only chicken, fish and egg-consuming. The fact that their muslim maid would handle beef at home is offensive to their religious sentiments.

    I actually know of one Maharashtrian Hindu couple, that hired a Muslim maid who was vegan because they couldn't find a Hindu maid that was vegetarian in their community. The Muslim maid was vegan for personal reasons.
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Given the manner how the whole issue is wrapped up in politics including the reports of Govt agencies, one cannot say if the Muslims are better off or not.

    Better off than what?

    Better off than what they were just after Independence?

    Better off in comparison to other minorities?

    Better off than the Hindus?

    Have the good/ better opportunities?

    So, better off than what?

    These are possibly some of the parameters that has to be defined to know how better off they are and compared to what bottomline.

    This much one can off hand say is that there is a greater representation in the government these days to include the police and the military. And market driven education is reaching them and they are going for it.

    Further, even the lower strata of the Muslims have realised that without education and a controlled birth rate, it is well nigh impossible to find their rightful place in the sun.

    The controversial statement of the VC of AMU indicates that the Muslims are well aware that economic clout plays a major role in being recognised. The message was cloaked to indicate that even a person like Modi, who is otherwise not acceptable socially by a vast majority, has ensured his recognition, albeit grudgingly, through sheer dint of economic power.

    The VC, in his own way, also has the track record of bringing quality and occupation related education to a large majority of the Muslim population in his area and, on top of it, he is an MBA!

    The fact that Muslims (and Hindus for that matter) did not raise Cain (except the political and religious satraps who required to remain relevant) about the Babri Mazjid verdict, indicates that the lower strata of Muslims (and even Hindus) have gone beyond narrow chauvinism and instead are looking towards practical issues that make a mark in their daily lives.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The maids in Delhi are mostly Bangladeshis and they have Hindu names and even wear accoutrements that indicate that they are Hindus, though most don't sport the Bindi or sindur.

    Apart from the Bangladeshis, it is difficult to find Muslim domestic help since they prefer to enter small business and be on their own or be artisans and mechanics. And they are good at it.

    Gone are the days when a household had a Muslim khidmatgar, bawarchi, or a khansama.
     
  19. GPM

    GPM Tihar Jail Banned

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    Better off!!

    If Constitutional and Civil laws are considetred, they are better off in India than anywhere else in the world. Our PM MMS declared from ramparts of the Red Fort, Lal Kila, that muslims have the FIRST claim on India's resources!!! When a musklim was arrested in Australia, MMS could NOT sleep!! With such bleeding heArts, Indian muslims are BETTER OFF, at least not worse off compared to those in muslim countries [53]. Evereybody is bending back to please tham. So much so that Lallo demanded that Patna should be RENAMED Azimabad!!! Can you beat it?
     
  20. mehwish92

    mehwish92 Founding Member

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    Literacy rate of Hindus in India (2001): 65.09%; Female Literacy rate of Hindus in India: 53.21% (2001)

    Literacy rate of Muslims in India (2001): 59.1%; Female Literacy rate of Muslims in India: 50.1% (2001)

    (it is interesting to note that Christians, Buddhists, Jains, & Sikhs all have higher literacy rates than both Hindus and Muslims. Muslims are the only minority religion below Hindus).

    -----------
    % Of Urban Indian Muslims Living in Slums: 27.6%
    Looking at Rural Regions:
    Credit:
    Land:
    (Source: Report on the Socio-Economic Conditions of Muslims in India)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --> in my opinion our country should separate religion from state. No religion should be given supremacy over others.

    From India Today (2007)
    Muslims' Income was slightly below the national average in 1993-1994, but as can be seen, the gap widened in 2004-2005.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What I can make out from this data is that the Muslims of India are definitely at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. However they aren't that much worse off than their Hindu/Sikh/Christian/Buddhist/Jain brothers.

    In terms of literacy, the Muslim literacy rate is only slightly below that of Hindus (literacy rates of other minorities are much higher than Hindus).

    In terms of land, assets, amenities, Muslims are nearly the same as Hindus (in some cases, slightly better).

    Muslims seem to have trouble getting loans from banks as compared to Hindus, however, which is seen as a form of discrimination. However, the reason for this could be that Muslims are generally poorer, and don't have stable jobs, resulting in lower incomes. Now this is where the problem lies. According to this report, only 30% or so of Muslims get jobs (work participation rate). However it does not give the work participation rate of Hindus to compare it to (though one would assume it would be much higher).

    Another problem is that Muslims don't benefit much from government schemes, due to improper implementation, corruption. As a result they are stuck at the bottom of the ladder.

    So what I get from all this is that they don't suffer as much from discrimination as they do from the corruption and government apathy that all Indians suffer from. Muslims just already happened to be in a bad state due to the effects of Partition, and Indian government hasn't done enough to improve their status.

    Ghettoization is another problem. Muslims make up 13% of Indian population. But the report says 27% of Muslims live in slums. However, it does not say how many Hindus live in slums. But as can be seen, in Mumbai 28.5% of slum dwellers are Muslim, a number more than double 13%.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now, to compare Indian Muslims with Pakistanis:

    Literacy rate of Muslims in India (2001): 59.1%; Female Literacy rate of Muslims in India: 50.1% (2001)

    Literacy rate of Pakistan (2004): 54%; Female Literacy rate of Pakistan: 41.75% (2004)

    Any other comparisons that can be made with Pakistan?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
    Ray likes this.
  21. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    question is that among these literates how many are educated in proper government or private schools ? many might be madarsa educated and quality of their syllabus and contents are well known. Though there are many good madarsas now a days but they are heavily outnumbered by ones which has religious leaning and all they teach is religion.
     

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