Apache & Chinook deal finally in sight?

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You are right. there is no comparison between rats and lapdogs (Finhish army and Australian army) and lions(Indian armed forces). Only retards with head up their ass would think a country whose population is less than the armed personal of India could match India or be compared with it .:biggrin2:

As long as Indian army has no history of supporting Nazis like the Finns or engaging in genocide of aborigines like in Australia it can never be at par with Finland and Australia. Right @apple @jouni ?

 

[Mad Indian]

Sir,

My self respect is not dependant on insulting others for its existence.

Yes. Its dependant on sucking foreign scumbags even if said scumbags were directly insulting Indian armed forces in their comment which you quoted.

 

[Mad Indian]

Even as he goes on insulting India and our armed forces everyday including the comment you quoted.

Oh he dint stop there. This is what that scumbag was writing:

Only idiots buy attack helos today. .......Deal sounds so Indian...

What does the scumbag mean by that @ghost ?

 

[Yumdoot]

http://bharatkarnad.com/2015/09/23/buying-what-with-3-billion/

Buying what with $3 billion?`
Posted on September 23, 2015by Bharat Karnad
Narendra Modi is making it a habit of trying futilely to buy respect, soft attitude, or consideration — it isn’t clear what, by approving multi-billion dollar military hardware acquisitions either just before or, springing surprises, during his trips abroad as happened with his announcement in Paris of the purchase of some 2 squadrons or 36 Rafales. These countries will glad-hand Modi, and just as gladly take India’s money. With the US visit looming, the finalization of the $3 billion deal for two types of helicopters — 22 of the Apache for ground attack and 15 Chinooks for heavy lift was on the cards. With cabinet decision it’s settled.

<snip>

Now, other supplier states, such as Russia, will ask for similar mode because along with money they also acquire political-diplomatic leverage in a neat package! Is this not known to GOI? Or does the govt believe that Modi’s charm will over-ride these aspects? Or, perhaps, Modi is convinced that buying goodwill with high-value arms transactions is the way for India to make a mark, get traction in foreign capitals, and advance the national interest. As history, however, shows such tactics/moves only reflect policy bankruptcy.

<snip>

Unfortunately for Modi, the Chinese President Xi Jinping arrives in Washington around the same time and the contrast couldn’t be starker. The Obama Admin is preparing an agreement to lay down rules of cyber warfare that originally contained many do’s but mostly don’ts that Beijing peremptorily rejected, because China is unwilling to accept a skewed arrangement benefitting the US. So the agreement will protect most of China’s interests, including its latitude to attack US economic facilities, etc. Xi too is pleading for lines of economic cooperation to be kept open, except he is also holding out a threat.

 

[ghost]

@The enlightened sir, He is making a general statement .Don't expect him to say someone is good because he is foolish.

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad Sir, I am not aware of such statements.

To all ,I just request you to not get personal and insulting .Rest is your choice .


@Mad Indian sir,

To tell you the truth even I am frustrated and somewhat depressed regarding procurement process of MOD and Indian army in particular.It's a mess.

 

[jouni]

Oh he dint stop there. This is what that scumbag was writing:



What does the scumbag mean by that @ghost ?

I meant that your other projects like INSAS, TEJAS and ARJUN has not been success stories either. Do not take it the wrong way, we all make mistakes. Intelligent people on the other hand finds new mistakes to make.

 

[jouni]

@The enlightened sir, He is making a general statement .Don't expect him to say someone is good because he is foolish.

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad Sir, I am not aware of such statements.

To all ,I just request you to not get personal and insulting .Rest is your choice .

Thanks for your nice words. Live and let live is a good advice for us all.

 

[thethinker]

11 Reasons Why Acquiring The Apache And Chinook Helicopters Will Change The Face Of Indian Defence

http://www.indianews.eu/news/india/...change-the-face-of-indian-defence-245612.html

After a three-year delay, the government has finally cleared the purchase of new attack and heavy lift helicopters from the US.

Both helicopters are game changers for India and not just on the military front. Here is why:

#1 The huge acquisition is just the beginning
The $2.5 billion (Rs 16540 crore) deal for a new fleet of 15 Chinook and 22 Apache choppers are a huge boost for the air force & the contract is likely to be expanded to larger number in coming years.

#2 Private sector gains
The private sector will benefit as the contract will bring in over $600 million (Rs 3670 crore) into the defence & aerospace sector as offsets for the deal.

Described as the most lethal attack helicopter in the world, the Apache has been in service since 1984 with over 2,100 machines produced.

#3 Most modern choppers
The version that India is purchasing is the latest Block III configuration that the US first got in 2011. A total of 22 choppers are being bought for $ 1.4 billion.

#4 Versatile helicopters
The stealthy, versatile chopper is designed for all kinds of missions.

#5 Equipped with latest technology and weapons
Equipped with laser and infrared systems for a weather, day-night operability, the Apache fires the Hellfire missiles, besides its arsenal of 70 mm rockets and an automatic cannon.

#6 Adds the much needed edge to IAF operations
The Apache will be the first pure attack helicopter in India's possession. While the Russian origin Mi 35 has been operated for years and is now on the verge of retirement, it was an assault chopper that was designed to carry troops into heavily defended territories

The two pilot Apache is a dedicated attack chopper that experts believe will be a 'game changer' in the tactical battle scenario.

#7 Can even work for Army
The Army and the Air Force have been sparring over who should operate the Apaches. While the procurement for 22 choppers was mooted by the IAF, the army has put in a strong case for inducting the machines as they are meant for close operations. The Army has now moved a proposal to purchase 39 Apaches for its aviation wing.

The iconic twin rotor chopper is a battle proven machine that has flown countless missions into warzones from Vietnam to Afghanistan and Iraq. While the original Chinook first flew in 1962, it has undergone several upgrades and is now one of the most modern heavy lift choppers in the world.

#8 Adds massive capacity to IAF Transport division
The massive helicopter can carry 9.6 tons of cargo, including heavy machinery, artillery guns and even light armoured vehicles to high altitude.

#9 Highly Maneuverable
Suited for mountain operations, the Chinook is highly maneuverable and can get in and out of tight valleys. Its missions range from ferrying troops to disaster relief operations.

The long pending acquisition will not only augment air force's heavy lift capability for military tasks but is a vital addition for the construction of strategic roads and infrastructure projects on the border.

#10 BRO gets much needed help
The Border Roads Organisation has been waiting in particular for the Chinook to complete road building projects in the North East that have been stuck for years for want of a heavy lift chopper that can carry material and equipment through narrow valleys.

#11 Even after bureaucratic hurdles, the deal didn't prove too expensive
Since being chosen as the winner in a contest with the upgraded Mi 26 chopper in October 2012, the Chinook deal has been hanging fire. Its manufacturer Boeing had to extend its commercial bid for the contract 13 times before being cleared. Any further delay would have significantly pushed up the price of the deal from $1.1 billion.

 

[Mad Indian]

A

I meant that your other projects like INSAS, TEJAS and ARJUN has not been success stories either. Do not take it the wrong way, we all make mistakes. Intelligent people on the other hand finds new mistakes to make.

You mean like how you beg NATO and Russia at the same time for your sovereignty? Sorry, we have more self respect than your kind to follow that model

 

[jackprince]

I can osata Finnglish and voin translate this for teille all. :biggrin2:

Attack helicopters were great, in the 90's, during Gulf War 1. The Iraqi's had, ineffective, soviet style anti aircraft defences and followed Soviet doctrine on the primacy of armoured forces i.e. they had lots of tanks. Apache's etc... were virtually invunerable and had lots of targets.

SInce then, there hasn't been a battle involving large numbers of tanks and helicopters have been less useful.

Yet, Apaches and Cobras have been working in all the theatres for such a long time with full success with only few losses. How could that be?

Even more problematically, MANPADS and similiar light AA systems have massively improved and helicopters are less safe.

What other light AA system is even closer to MANPAD? I don't know any, do you?

A weapon system is not procured for not using in fear of losing it, but for the gain it could get despite the risk. Do you think the modern day Anti-armour systems are any less lethal? So we should stop buying tanks and IFVs too, is that so?

Jet fighters are even more effective than they were against helicopters.

Yes, they are so, if they get to deal with the helos when the other side's fighters have either all fallen or had abandoned the helos. If MKIs are providing cover for the helos, I don't know what asshat would go for low flying ground hugging helos knowing full well the MKIs gonna blow their ass off if they don't get their arguments done with MKIs before.

So, they are less useful than they were, more vunerable and.

Even a bloody aircraft career is more vulnerable today than it was a decade ago. Haven't seen anybody arguing to scrap them? A wise leader learns the difficulty and devices ways to skirt around the vulnerability, assessing the risk and opportunity together. What do you think, anytime the Pakistani tank column moves, the apaches and LCHs are gonna be ordered to take out those without any areal cover by the fighters and without a plan how to nutralise or evade the short range AA systems including MANPAD?

most vitally, many of the roles they used to perform can be undertaken by UAV's with no threat to anyone's life.

No, not yet. The UAVs to take the roles of a assault helu has not come to be in service with any armed forces, unless it is a top secret one. Helicopters' ability to hover and ability to eliminate slow moving or stationery targets with pinpoint accuracy, its abilty to operate from any terrain and ability to operate with minimal support- are still not available with any of the UAVs that has come to service in any of the nations. Not even close, forget the kevel of abilities a AH64E has.

Don't compare the military history of India with Finland, if you'd actually read a book in your life you'd realise that's not a comparison that is going to be favourable for India.

I don't know. Indian soldiers have fought too many wars, and in the form of republic it has fought 4, 5 if you count the 1965, in last 68 years. Finland last fought in 1940, and that too they consider winning by losing land. Yes, thise people of that time fought great, but their descendants have not done anything since then to consider themselves any good. Even in their own movie, the Spec ops of USA comes to their rescue?!!!

Any helicopter, anywhere near the frontline during a confrontation between Finland and any of it's neighbours, would be destroyed in a matter of seconds.

Matter of seconds?!!! How?

Do you think any military power that will come to attack Finland or its neighbours, will bring the helos in the play without blowing the AA systems away first, and without taking precaution for the safety of the helos?

Yes, MANPADs are a great threat. But, they are not as numerous as you might have been made to think or assuredly destructive as you have been made to believe. Of course the airforces which are planning to use them knows the danger the MANPADs present, that is why every attack helo is equipped with ECM, chaffs, flares to defeat the missiles.

When pressed into battle, some of the helos may be lost, but if the possible exchange of the tasks carried out by those and other helos is worth it, the risk is always acceptable. That is how battle works. Not all the soldier that goes to fight, comes back.

 

[Mad Indian]

To all ,I just request you to not get personal and insulting .Rest is your choice

So you are OK with that scum insulting India but don't want people to call you out for your pathetic lack of self respect? Why don't you respect our views that you are pathetic just like how you respect his views on India and Indian armed forces? It's that simple.

Even if you are going to be pathetic, atleast have some intellectual honesty .

 

[jouni]

Finnish HELO killers....

 

[Yumdoot]

Man @jouni are you out of your mind.

That Apaches are nearly useless and that Chinooks are too expensive and all this is a ruse to control Indian MIC is understood.

But hell these helos are not going to invade Finland ever. We already have inexpensive Paki stuff to worry about.

 

[jackprince]

Man @jouni are you out of your mind.

That Apaches are nearly useless and that Chinooks are too expensive and all this is a ruse to control Indian MIC is understood.

But hell these helos are not going to invade Finland ever. We already have inexpensive Paki stuff to worry about.

Well, I have to disagree about Apaches being 'useless' only because pakistan shoot IR guided MANPAD to it. The flares every helo carries are for that partcular purpose, and is the ECM suites.

I however agree about chinook being too expensive.

 

[The enlightened]

OMG Look Finnish tank killers.





Russians, you can forget your tanks at home the next time

 

[jouni]

A


You mean like how you beg NATO and Russia at the same time for your sovereignty? Sorry, we have more self respect than your kind to follow that model

Well, we bought 100 Leo2A6s for two mil a piece. How much has your Arjun project cost so far?

As long as Indian army has no history of supporting Nazis like the Finns or engaging in genocide of aborigines like in Australia it can never be at par with Finland and Australia. Right @apple @jouni ?

You cannot compare Finnish and Indian army. We have conscription, we are the army. You have professional army. It is like watching others do it versus doing it yourself...if you know what I mean

 

[Mad Indian]

I however agree about chinook being too expensive.

I saw a photo on another forum on why Mi26 was rejected and Chinook was selected. Will try getting it if possible

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2009/01/boeing-presentation-to-iaf-comparing.html?m=1

 

[Mad Indian]

Well, we bought 100 Leo2A6s for two mil a piece. How much has your Arjun project cost so far?

As I said, we don't want to be like Finns who are begging for sovereignty from Russia and NATO . keep that lack of self respect to yourself

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You cannot compare Finnish and Indian army. We have conscription, we are the army. You have professional army. It is like watching others do it versus doing it yourself...if you know what I mean

Yes, I know what it means precisely- SCARCITY!!

 

[jackprince]

Well, we bought 100 Leo2A6s for two mil a piece. How much has your Arjun project cost so far?

You bought and we built. See the difference? We are already building a further updated version and given our new govt and its policies, we will see more support for the projects too. Also, we have been building fighter aircrafts including one designed indegeniusly, built an SSBN and building more, built an aircraft career and building more, ships, submarines, cruise missiles, ballastic missiles, helicopters and what not. What are you comparing?

You cannot compare Finnish and Indian army. We have conscription, we are the army. You have professional army. It is like watching others do it versus doing it yourself...if you know what I mean

Yeah, conscription. Means you serve a while and learn a little, then give that up, when we have 1.3 million people who live, eat and breath the art of war. That is why there is no comparison. We have met another conscription army in the field of battle and even with the overwhelming numbers in that army, we gave them a bloody nose - the chinese.