Apache & Chinook deal finally in sight?

rock127

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great news. . but india should assure its traditional buyer russia on this front because russians are not very happy with this deal
Think practically.

India do not need to put all eggs in one basket.

US has state of the art stuff and gives it's products on timeline whereas Russia thinks of us as a milking cow and lot of time is spent just negotiating.

For future we need to slowly strengthen our own local defense industry.Russia and India can collaborate on lot of new projects since we can provide $$$ for joint R&D.Russia and India knows it would not be a good idea to lose such a old friend.

Why should WE always think about "Ohhh he would not be happy" since others should also think the same way.
 

I_PLAY_BAD

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It must be a trend that India has to procure weapons from all sellers.
Only then we can maintain a fair deal. If we rely only on Russia and Israel chances are there for the countries to increase the prices. Create competition to keep a check on the price.
Above all, boost indigenous manufacturing of weapons.
 

punjab47

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It must be a trend that India has to procure weapons from all sellers.
Only then we can maintain a fair deal. If we rely only on Russia and Israel chances are there for the countries to increase the prices. Create competition to keep a check on the price.
Above all, boost indigenous manufacturing of weapons.
So you mean we should buy from USA, beat up bramins & practice pratilom marriage? I.e upper caste woman with lower caste man.

60% o Israeli market
40% of Russian

Is India if we stop expensive USA deals & focus on our own systems Israel Russia will lower prices not increase.
 

I_PLAY_BAD

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So you mean we should buy from USA, beat up bramins & practice pratilom marriage? I.e upper caste woman with lower caste man.

60% o Israeli market
40% of Russian

Is India if we stop expensive USA deals & focus on our own systems Israel Russia will lower prices not increase.
Yes, we must start buying from USA.
I also said "boost indigenous manufacturing of weapons".
Was it hard to read/understand ?

I did not say we need to beat up brahmins. And, learn some forum ethics. You are posting a reply which is irrelevant to this thread.
 

tarunraju

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The quick brown fox jumped over the nauseous lizard that demanded 30 characters.
 

jouni

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Only idiots buy attack helos today. Apache was great in the nineties, now it is useless. Same capabilities can be achieved with the fraction of the costs by other means. Good for military shows and teenage boys bedroom posters though ;). Deal sounds so Indian...
 

jackprince

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Only idiots buy attack helos today. Apache was great in the nineties, now it is useless. Same capabilities can be achieved with the fraction of the costs by other means. Good for military shows and teenage boys bedroom posters though ;). Deal sounds so Indian...
Smells like shit burning? jealous much?!!! Why? Is it because the puny lil frozen rock called finland cannot afford to have a fleet and afford the social welfare programmes too? May be they should buy some after deporting some freeloaders like you to the place where they come from?

But then Finland would not know what the Attack Helos do, since they are the vassal state of a superpower living with a belief that they are safe because their leaders weekly bend over to USA. But, Indian armed forces have people who mostly know their business, having fought 4 declared wars and winning three of them. So, shove your opinion where sun never shines.
 

ghost

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Only idiots buy attack helos today. Apache was great in the nineties, now it is useless. Same capabilities can be achieved with the fraction of the costs by other means. Good for military shows and teenage boys bedroom posters though ;). Deal sounds so Indian...
Sir,

Educate me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ho gaye 30 characters.
 

jouni

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Sir,

Educate me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ho gaye 30 characters.
From Finnish forum...sorry for google translation....


I would say the fact that the TST the helicopter golden age of the culmination hit almost exactly the Persian Gulf war in 1991. During the Cold War, the West was developed TST hekojen armament, technique and tactics of mirnaansa, as a result of the 1991 Gulf War, AH-64A Apachet work quite as effective "purkinaavaajina" Iraqi T-72 and other armored equipment received. AH-64D Apache Longbow may be considered as the pinnacle of technical development period. The ability to shoot several kilometers to get 16 different goals at the same time Hellfire missile 30 seconds of their detection in all weather and lighting conditions at the end of the 1990s, the real cutting edge technology. To my knowledge, this day another battle helicopter, none can match.

However, the Soviet Union, the threat of massive armored forces almost completely fell into oblivion in the West for 15 years, as did the new TST hekoprojektien financing. That is one indication is in itself a highly advanced RAH-66 Comanche termination of project in the United States in the early 2000s, the threat against which the Comanche was designed to work longer simply did not have.

At the same time partly as a result of the Gulf War, the teachings of Russia and China began since the mid-1990s is investing heavily in the development of the very short-range air defense systems, an example of this Pantsirin M1 and Tor-like systems. These systems also possess a good all-weather ability to also function as a low-flying tutkakatveessa TST hekoja against the largely eliminating perhaps the TST hekojen the most out of the battlefield, that is, the ability to operate below the radar of traditional anti-aircraft radar measurement range at the same time taking advantage of the opportunities offered by the terrain shadowed areas to avoid detection.

Similarly, the general radar technology and advances in information technology have meant that the fighters are better "look-down, shoot-down" -tutkia, enabling very low and slow flying helicopters can be detected maavälkkeen midst. Radar and development of the processing technology is also reflected in the fact that modern IT systems Doppler radars capable of detecting even low-stationary float in the helicopter caused the rotor blades to rotate the Doppler shift due.

Also, thermal imaging technology in the 2000s made great strides forward, making even the latest versions infrapunahakuisten MANPAD systems, it is possible to place the imaging search ends just as ilmataisteluohjuksiin to traditional flares are no longer sufficient to counteract, but needed a more sophisticated defenses fired missiles against, such as the search head Blinded laser beam.

The development of a variety of imaging systems may be mentioned in this context, also a fighter aircraft IRST systems that enable low-flying helicopters can be detected, even if it brings no sufficient radar echo for detecting radar. Just as infrared cameras IT systems allow for the detection of helicopters entirely passively, without that observed the helicopter aware of it before it toward the shot.

This brings me to my point last helicopters vulnerability of the modern battlefield, or of modern IT systems, advanced fire control systems. These now allow for very fast and accurate fire almost immediately after the opening goal, the detection of, for example, if the TST HEKO happens to come Marksman Leon borne by an efficient, drops HEKO almost certainly also down.

However, the worst thing TST hekojen of the modern battlefield is perhaps the fact that like in the past only the fire control systems and sensors olleiden anti-aircraft systems in actual systems begins today also have the TST tank in, IFV-in vehicles, and even the crew transport vehicles in the form of a variety of RWS systems. For example,
Combat Vehicle 90 is able to relegate borne by future TST the helicopter as any short-range IT systems.

Finally, various unmanned airplanes meet the modern-day battlefield largely on what you need to TST hekot originally planned to complete, however, without jeopardizing the life of pilots at all. In addition, these UAV systems operating time and the radius of can now be considerably longer than the TST hekoja, and they are also the enemy is often difficult to detect. The remainder of the TST hekojen meet the performance potential of today largely different from the air and from the triggered precision and smart munition on artillery.

Sum summaarum, therefore, was therefore very good that we do not come out in the 1990s to carry out chopper-Gustav's wildest visions, but we stayed the-ground, and cost-effective solutions
 
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Mad Indian

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Sir,

Educate me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ho gaye 30 characters.
Yes call him sir and validate his ego. Some Indians have no self respect :rolleyes:
 

apple

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From Finnish forum...sorry for google translation....


I would say the fact that the TST the helicopter golden age of the culmination hit almost exactly the Persian Gulf war in 1991. During the Cold War, the West was developed TST hekojen armament, technique and tactics of mirnaansa, as a result of the 1991 Gulf War, AH-64A Apachet work quite as effective "purkinaavaajina" Iraqi T-72 and other armored equipment received. AH-64D Apache Longbow may be considered as the pinnacle of technical development period. The ability to shoot several kilometers to get 16 different goals at the same time Hellfire missile 30 seconds of their detection in all weather and lighting conditions at the end of the 1990s, the real cutting edge technology. To my knowledge, this day another battle helicopter, none can match.

However, the Soviet Union, the threat of massive armored forces almost completely fell into oblivion in the West for 15 years, as did the new TST hekoprojektien financing. That is one indication is in itself a highly advanced RAH-66 Comanche termination of project in the United States in the early 2000s, the threat against which the Comanche was designed to work longer simply did not have.

At the same time partly as a result of the Gulf War, the teachings of Russia and China began since the mid-1990s is investing heavily in the development of the very short-range air defense systems, an example of this Pantsirin M1 and Tor-like systems. These systems also possess a good all-weather ability to also function as a low-flying tutkakatveessa TST hekoja against the largely eliminating perhaps the TST hekojen the most out of the battlefield, that is, the ability to operate below the radar of traditional anti-aircraft radar measurement range at the same time taking advantage of the opportunities offered by the terrain shadowed areas to avoid detection.

Similarly, the general radar technology and advances in information technology have meant that the fighters are better "look-down, shoot-down" -tutkia, enabling very low and slow flying helicopters can be detected maavälkkeen midst. Radar and development of the processing technology is also reflected in the fact that modern IT systems Doppler radars capable of detecting even low-stationary float in the helicopter caused the rotor blades to rotate the Doppler shift due.

Also, thermal imaging technology in the 2000s made great strides forward, making even the latest versions infrapunahakuisten MANPAD systems, it is possible to place the imaging search ends just as ilmataisteluohjuksiin to traditional flares are no longer sufficient to counteract, but needed a more sophisticated defenses fired missiles against, such as the search head Blinded laser beam.

The development of a variety of imaging systems may be mentioned in this context, also a fighter aircraft IRST systems that enable low-flying helicopters can be detected, even if it brings no sufficient radar echo for detecting radar. Just as infrared cameras IT systems allow for the detection of helicopters entirely passively, without that observed the helicopter aware of it before it toward the shot.

This brings me to my point last helicopters vulnerability of the modern battlefield, or of modern IT systems, advanced fire control systems. These now allow for very fast and accurate fire almost immediately after the opening goal, the detection of, for example, if the TST HEKO happens to come Marksman Leon borne by an efficient, drops HEKO almost certainly also down.

However, the worst thing TST hekojen of the modern battlefield is perhaps the fact that like in the past only the fire control systems and sensors olleiden anti-aircraft systems in actual systems begins today also have the TST tank in, IFV-in vehicles, and even the crew transport vehicles in the form of a variety of RWS systems. For example,
Combat Vehicle 90 is able to relegate borne by future TST the helicopter as any short-range IT systems.

Finally, various unmanned airplanes meet the modern-day battlefield largely on what you need to TST hekot originally planned to complete, however, without jeopardizing the life of pilots at all. In addition, these UAV systems operating time and the radius of can now be considerably longer than the TST hekoja, and they are also the enemy is often difficult to detect. The remainder of the TST hekojen meet the performance potential of today largely different from the air and from the triggered precision and smart munition on artillery.

Sum summaarum, therefore, was therefore very good that we do not come out in the 1990s to carry out chopper-Gustav's wildest visions, but we stayed the-ground, and cost-effective solutions
I can osata Finnglish and voin translate this for teille all. :biggrin2:

Attack helicopters were great, in the 90's, during Gulf War 1. The Iraqi's had, ineffective, soviet style anti aircraft defences and followed Soviet doctrine on the primacy of armoured forces i.e. they had lots of tanks. Apache's etc... were virtually invunerable and had lots of targets.

SInce then, there hasn't been a battle involving large numbers of tanks and helicopters have been less useful.

Even more problematically, MANPADS and similiar light AA systems have massively improved and helicopters are less safe.

Jet fighters are even more effective than they were against helicopters.

So, they are less useful than they were, more vunerable and. most vitally, many of the roles they used to perform can be undertaken by UAV's with no threat to anyone's life.

Smells like shit burning? jealous much?!!! Why? Is it because the puny lil frozen rock called finland cannot afford to have a fleet and afford the social welfare programmes too? May be they should buy some after deporting some freeloaders like you to the place where they come from?

But then Finland would not know what the Attack Helos do, since they are the vassal state of a superpower living with a belief that they are safe because their leaders weekly bend over to USA. But, Indian armed forces have people who mostly know their business, having fought 4 declared wars and winning three of them. So, shove your opinion where sun never shines.
Don't compare the military history of India with Finland, if you'd actually read a book in your life you'd realise that's not a comparison that is going to be favourable for India.

Any helicopter, anywhere near the frontline during a confrontation between Finland and any of it's neighbours, would be destroyed in a matter of seconds.
 

Mad Indian

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Don't compare the military history of India with Finland, if you'd actually read a book in your life you'd realise that's not a comparison that is going to be favourable for India.

Any helicopter, anywhere near the frontline during a confrontation between Finland and any of it's neighbours, would be destroyed in a matter of seconds.
You are right. there is no comparison between rats and lapdogs (Finhish army and Australian army) and lions(Indian armed forces). Only retards with head up their ass would think a country whose population is less than the armed personal of India could match India or be compared with it .:biggrin2:
 
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Mad Indian

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But, Indian armed forces have people who mostly know their business, having fought 4 declared wars and winning three of them
Actually we won 4 of them but since we are too critical of ourselves we don't consider the 1965 war victory as victory. Hell even the loss in Sino Indian war of 1962 was due to that moron Nehru and was not the fault of our army. Compare that to the Finnish "victory" over Soviets where they gave land to soviets as part of the peace treaty :lol:
 

The enlightened

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Only idiots buy attack helos today. Apache was great in the nineties, now it is useless. Same capabilities can be achieved with the fraction of the costs by other means. Good for military shows and teenage boys bedroom posters though ;). Deal sounds so Indian...
Holy shit. Somebody tell that to the US Marine Corps. Silly fanboys buying brand new Vipers. Or to the US Army. How many Apaches do they have? 800? So Indian....

Wait...............no. Its just you are a delusional idiot.
 
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tarunraju

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Only idiots buy attack helos today. Apache was great in the nineties, now it is useless. Same capabilities can be achieved with the fraction of the costs by other means. Good for military shows and teenage boys bedroom posters though ;). Deal sounds so Indian...
Attack helos are relevant in the anti-insurgent warfare. Sourgraping cucks like you won't get that.
 

The enlightened

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Don't compare the military history of India with Finland, if you'd actually read a book in your life you'd realise that's not a comparison that is going to be favourable for India.
What? Defending against Nazis and Soviets in that snow-filled hell.
Try reading up on the Burma campaign.
 

ghost

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Yes call him sir and validate his ego. Some Indians have no self respect :rolleyes:
Sir,

My self respect is not dependant on insulting others for its existence.


@jouni is a thorough gentleman and a honourable man ,a quality which deserve respect even in your enemies.

He is entitled to his opinions,point of views like everyone else .We all have our different perceptions, we can debate,explain ,agree or disagree(respectfully).



I feel a combination of small,medium and large smarter drones would be more favourable in attack.
 
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Yumdoot

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US Army is not financed by Indian sized budget. Nor do they have to contend with enemies who get supplied with Nukes on the sly, for free. Nor do they have to face enemies who already have been manufacturing two-color IR detector capable shoulder fired SAMs. SAMs against which neither air superiority will matter nor will air dominance matter.

Here is a picture put out by a US IR countermeasures company.

http://www.army.mil/article/11944/Picatinny_supports_war_on_terrorism/

Notice two different colors SWIR & MWIR. This is how the Anza-2 and Anza-3 SAM would see all helos including Apache. And no helo, can escape this within 5 km. Mind you even from the top (presuming nap of the earth flying and depressed trajectory firing) the helo would be visible to the IR sensors. That is why such sensors are called all aspect IR sensors.

People just forget that our own CLGM is similarly going to target low flying enemy helos, besides fulfilling the main task of killing enemy tanks. This is not just possible but also necessary and desirable and the best way to kill a bunch of attack helos. Incredibly, people also just forget their own history. Is it so difficult to figure out how our helo pilots were sent to sure death in Kargil.

These Anzas are BTW supplied by chinese with so called 'stolen' technology from Russian and American sources. From wiki:
Variants[edit]
  • Anza Mk-II - A third generation MANPADS,[25] believed to be based on the Chinese QW-1 MANPADS.[26] Uses a dual-band, cross-scan infra-red homing seeker to counter decoy flares.[27] Also believed to use American missile technology.[28] Approximately 1650 Anza Mk-II were produced between 1994-2012.[29]
  • Anza Mk-III - Believed to be based on the Chinese QW-2 MANPADS,[30] modifications made to meet Pakistan Army requirements include increased range up to 5 km, improved sensors and a new firing unit similar to the Russian 9K38 Igla MANPADS.[31][32]((non reliable sources)) All-aspect attack capability and improved ECCM capability.[10] It also has a vehicle-mounted launcher variant.
I don't particularly mind the Chinook. You have got to transport things regardless. But I could make no sense of Apaches.

Hell even RPGs have been effectively used against low flying helos. Remember Somalia.

US Army can buy it because of GDP issues but we probably just have to love it now that chidiya already choog gayi khet.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Sir,

My self respect is not dependant on insulting others for its existence.


@jouni is a thorough gentleman and a honourable man ,a quality which deserve respect even in your enemies.

He is entitled to his opinions,point of views like everyone else .We all have our different perceptions, we can debate,explain ,agree or disagree(respectfully).
A gentleman who is ok with rapes as an instrument of war!!
 

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