Anti-India campaign gains ground in US

[sesha_maruthi27]

INDIA can use this chance in its favor to indict pakistan. But how far will the U.S. budge to the INDIAN request or demands is a fact that remains unknown and doubtful.

 

[nrj]

India is indispensable to US on a strategic horizon.

 

[panduranghari]

There is none directly....
But indirectly a lot.... more senators can start asking for stalling of programmes, less co operation with us and other things etc, after being emboldened by such lobby... Hey but thats just me.....

USA has not much to offer India that other countries could offer.

Pro Israeli lobby is the one who are mostly neo-cons, am I correct?

 

[panduranghari]

The policy of divide and rule still exists in the subcontinent. Indian subcontinent is so huge. British before departing devided indi into Myanmar (Burma), Bhutan, Sikkim, Cylone and Pakistan. Then Pakistan got divided. Now Pakistan will get divided. The Brits, West and US tried to wrest J&K from India following divide and rule.

Nothing new with that Lt Col's thoery.

Spot on. I said it elsewhere, and I say it now.

Divide and get out is their get out of jail card.

 

[mattster]

Its amazing that some folks in this forum take a half-baked article in half-baked newspaper like the Deccan Chronicle seriously.

First of all the US like most big countries realizes that you cant always pick your allies and your neighbours.
The US-India relationship is not based on Iran......Iran is a small sideshow.

That doesnt mean that the US is not going to try and get India to come along on sanctions against Iran.
If India doesnt budge - it will mean little to India-US relations. India and the US have a far more serious adversary in China that should make both these countries natural allies. The relationship is far more important than just Iran.

Another issue that always comes up in this forum is US support of Pakistan - has it ever occurred to anyone in this forum that the US actively engaging Pak is actually a major benefit to India ?? Engaging also mean keeping a foot on their throat !!

If the US army and its drones were not keeping Pak terrorists/Jihadis/ISI stooges busy on the AFPAK border - then where do you think their energy and attention would turn to ???

The US has killed more Senior Pak Jihadis than India probably has in 50 years. Indians need to understand that India can do little against Pak terrorism until they strike India. And they have been striking India at will for 50 years, even despite losing half their country.

What did India to Pak in response to the almost 200 civilians killed in Mumbai ?? Answer : SQUAT...absolutely nothing but SQUAT.

So here is an IDEA, guys - If the best you can do is SQUAT, then at least be happy that someone else is killing these psycho Islamo nut-jobs for you !!
Be happy that the US is engaged with Pak and keeping their feet to the fire. Any such relationship involves some give and take.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

It is laughable how anti-semitic Europe is supporting Theocratic Israel.

I have to disagree that Israel is a theocracy, and Orthodox Jews would disagree as well, I believe.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

From the article:

Friends of India at the Capitol Hill and the Obama administration believe that this might gain momentum in the coming days...

First, all quotes in the article are unattributed except for Obama's press spokesman. Who are friends of India in the Obama administration? It was not that long ago that Defense Secretary Leon Panetta referred in a speech to China and India as "rising threats in the Pacific."

 

[blueblood]

Its amazing that some folks in this forum take a half-baked article in half-baked newspaper like the Deccan Chronicle seriously.

First of all the US like most big countries realizes that you cant always pick your allies and your neighbours.
The US-India relationship is not based on Iran......Iran is a small sideshow.

That doesnt mean that the US is not going to try and get India to come along on sanctions against Iran.
If India doesnt budge - it will mean little to India-US relations. India and the US have a far more serious adversary in China that should make both these countries natural allies. The relationship is far more important than just Iran.

Another issue that always comes up in this forum is US support of Pakistan - has it ever occurred to anyone in this forum that the US actively engaging Pak is actually a major benefit to India ?? Engaging also mean keeping a foot on their throat !!

If the US army and its drones were not keeping Pak terrorists/Jihadis/ISI stooges busy on the AFPAK border - then where do you think their energy and attention would turn to ???

The US has killed more Senior Pak Jihadis than India probably has in 50 years. Indians need to understand that India can do little against Pak terrorism until they strike India. And they have been striking India at will for 50 years, even despite losing half their country.

What did India to Pak in response to the almost 200 civilians killed in Mumbai ?? Answer : SQUAT...absolutely nothing but SQUAT.

So here is an IDEA, guys - If the best you can do is SQUAT, then at least be happy that someone else is killing these psycho Islamo nut-jobs for you !!
Be happy that the US is engaged with Pak and keeping their feet to the fire. Any such relationship involves some give and take.

Clam down mate. Dropping a JDAM from a $2 billion B-2 on a raghead jihadi didn't change anything. Your tough guy act will make sense when you'll share a border with Paki sons of bitches. With friends and family sitting 13,000 kms from the hotzone, even a 5 year old can proclaim himself to be the baddest of the badasses. But when your large population centres are within 200 kms from the border it changes everything.

 

[Yusuf]

Matt, nothing of the US policy in Pak helps India in anyway. Not in the manner hat you have said not otherwise. Drone attacks mean nothing. Financing it, giving it advanced weapons and blinking when required at proliferation is what hurts India. just fish we heard of a 2.4 billion charity from the US to Pak which will go into the pockets of the PA which will use it to fund terror against India.

US wants all other countries to toe its line and interests but not bothered about what it's friends and allies want. Remember I am a pro US person. But I still have my grieviences against th US and esp wrt to Pak.

 

[Tshering22]

What will be disadvantages to India because of the rise of the anti Indian lobby in the US?

We just ordered a shyte load of military stuff from them. And in case this paranoia crosses lines along the lines of Nixon era, we will have to do what China does; reverse engineer critical components incase Uncle Sam gets too uppity about sanctioning our supplies or bugging them.

 

[Tshering22]

There is nothing anti-India about the moves in US. The law makers are toeing a pro US line. Their President has embarked on a programme of containing Iranian Nuclear Programme along with most of the West European countries. We ourselves are giving confused signals, at times we vote with the US and then we do a U turn keeping in mind the domestic political compulsions.

I won't jump to conclusions but this is the same sort of crap that started after 1998, if you notice the situation. It always starts like this with the US. They've got serious problems with mood swings.

The funny thing is, this is a unilateral sanction by US and EU and not ratified by UN. So why the eff should we comply to it?

Has there been a debate in the public space regarding India's policy with Iran. Most of the GCC countries with whom we have excellent relationship and who supply more than 60% of our Oil, as compared to 12% from Iran, are opposed to the Iranian Nuclear programme, and are on board with the US.

12% isn't a small amount. What's more, after not being able to retain POK, Iran is our only route to central Asia. You want us to ruin that? For becoming US' lackey? No thanks.

If US can get us POK back and guarantee us cheap oil supply replacing Iran, we can take this step. Otherwise, sorry.

Israel knows what our relations with Iran is about and it is not having any threats from it. WTF is bothering these lobbies?

India i the leading democratic country which till the end was reluctant to speak against Gaddafi and till date we dare not speak against Assad in Syria, who is butchering his own countrymen.

That's the irony; the world's largest democracy and the world's biggest democracy torch-bearer have been most of the times on collision course than on friendship..

Where do we stand today, is a question even the wise men in MEA most probably do not know.
If the Jewish Lobby and a few Senators write to the Indian Ambassador asking an explanation from a country with which they have very deep relationship- I do not see this as an Anti-India stand.

The simple answer would be "The same reason why you maintained relationship with Pakistan post 1999".

Let us all grow up and understand that the way we are handling our International diplomacy, does not reflect well on the size and stature of India

.

I think it is time that WEST showed some maturity to understand that the old game of :

YOU'RE OUR ENEMY OR OUR LACKEY,

won't work anymore.

 

[Tshering22]

Matt, nothing of the US policy in Pak helps India in anyway. Not in the manner hat you have said not otherwise. Drone attacks mean nothing. Financing it, giving it advanced weapons and blinking when required at proliferation is what hurts India. just fish we heard of a 2.4 billion charity from the US to Pak which will go into the pockets of the PA which will use it to fund terror against India.

US wants all other countries to toe its line and interests but not bothered about what it's friends and allies want. Remember I am a pro US person. But I still have my grieviences against th US and esp wrt to Pak.

We should ask US some questions:

- Can they return POK to us and open up route to CAR in our own territory for us?

- Can they guarantee 12% oil supply that Iran gives to us for the rest of our existence?

- Can it severe ties with Pakistan and China for our sake?

If the answer for any of these is NO, then the same is from our end.


More than any pro or anti, I am an Indian and I look for what's good for my country.

We have a right to protect our self interests.


If Israel has no problems with it (they very well know our ties to Iran are only commercial and non-military and there's no threat to them), I don't see why US should.

Totally respect US to have their opinion but they cannot slap it on everyone else. Those days are gone.

 

[Tshering22]

Its amazing that some folks in this forum take a half-baked article in half-baked newspaper like the Deccan Chronicle seriously.

No one said there's bitterness in our ties. WE both are still essentially on same page. Just perceptions differ.

First of all the US like most big countries realizes that you cant always pick your allies and your neighbours.

US may now do, but historically it hasn't.

The US-India relationship is not based on Iran......Iran is a small sideshow.

Exactly. Our ties are much more than that. Which is what makes me wonder why these lawmakers are so short-sighted.

That doesnt mean that the US is not going to try and get India to come along on sanctions against Iran.
If India doesnt budge - it will mean little to India-US relations. India and the US have a far more serious adversary in China that should make both these countries natural allies. The relationship is far more important than just Iran.

Agree with you 100%.

Another issue that always comes up in this forum is US support of Pakistan - has it ever occurred to anyone in this forum that the US actively engaging Pak is actually a major benefit to India ?? Engaging also mean keeping a foot on their throat !!

And it is only making the lives of your troops even difficult in AFPAK.

If the US army and its drones were not keeping Pak terrorists/Jihadis/ISI stooges busy on the AFPAK border - then where do you think their energy and attention would turn to ???

95% of their military is still concentrated on our side. This is Pakistani mentality which you will find very difficult to understand. Let me tell you something; you (as in you yourself) could simply get an Arnold Schwarzenegger style commando kit with guns and stuff right to Afghanistan and simply walk into Pakistan from there.

There will be no Pakistani guards to stop you, no one to question you and no one to send you out. Why? Because since their inception, they are paranoid about us. They won't do anything on western border even if you bring entire US Army down there. Trust me on this one. They simply can't because of their mentality.

The US has killed more Senior Pak Jihadis than India probably has in 50 years. Indians need to understand that India can do little against Pak terrorism until they strike India. And they have been striking India at will for 50 years, even despite losing half their country.

Actually, their terrorism started in 80s when Zia got a free ride from your ex presidents. Before that, they were almost eliminated.

What did India to Pak in response to the almost 200 civilians killed in Mumbai ?? Answer : SQUAT...absolutely nothing but SQUAT.

If China (in same position to you as what Pakistan is to us in economic and military might) with its nukes was bordering you, what would you do?

Add former USSR to that. And then see. There'd be a HUGE HUGE difference in US military doctrine then.

There's a shyte load of difference when you're sitting thousands of miles away and when you have 2 unstable and non-democratic countries with nukes pointed at you.

Let South America acquire nukes and see how situation changes. Nobody would want even 1 nuke to be detonated on one's soil even if you can rain thousands back.

The damage done cannot be undone. Which is why nukes change the game.

So here is an IDEA, guys - If the best you can do is SQUAT, then at least be happy that someone else is killing these psycho Islamo nut-jobs for you !!
Be happy that the US is engaged with Pak and keeping their feet to the fire. Any such relationship involves some give and take.

Appreciate the killing of deranged lunatics by US soldiers but trust me, if you didn't do that 9/11s would happen almost every month considering the amount of Paki population you and Brits host.

They're as much your enemies as they are ours. So in short, you are really saving yourselves as much as you're helping others achieve their objectives.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Obama has been anti-Indian since the start of this term. The Bush nuclear deal
has collapsed under Obama and there is not much else USA can do for India that
was as important as that deal. In the next few years Chinese pressure will increase
in USA that along with Chinese-pak alliance reducing US influence in Southeast Asia.
China has made brilliant moves while Obama has shown nothing but incompetence
in all areas of foreign policy. US has historically not been able to make alliances with
large countries.

 

[KS]

Remember, the anti-Iran sentiment is largely due to Israel and the huge (and powerful!) Jewish base in America, who are paranoid of EVERYONE.

.

How can you call Israel 'paranoid' of Iran when the Iranian Mullahs (who are the real power center in Iran) have more than on one occassion called for the complete annihilation fo the Jewish state ?

By that count arent we 'paranoid' of anything Pakistan ?

 

[sob]

Let us be realistic why do we need Iran. we certainly do not need it for fuel. We are importing much larger quantity of crude than our requirement. Even if we do do away with the Iranian crude there will be no problem today fro India. Only thing that would happen is that Reliance and Essar would have to reduce their exports of petroleum products.

As regards to Afghanistan, Iran needs us as much as we need them. If one recalls during the Taliban era, when tailban had differences with Iran, had massed troops on the Iranian border, Iran had to back down.

another point that we keep on missing is that the GCC countries which are our much bigger trade partner and crude oil suppliers, are more than happy to step in and replace the Iranian crude. They would also prefer that India help the US led effort to rein in Iran.

The most sensible course of action for India is to play the role of an honest broker between Iran and Us, or the other thing that our dear PM is very good at, is to duck down, and wait for the storm to blow over.

 

[mattster]

Matt, nothing of the US policy in Pak helps India in anyway. Not in the manner hat you have said not otherwise. Drone attacks mean nothing. Financing it, giving it advanced weapons and blinking when required at proliferation is what hurts India. just fish we heard of a 2.4 billion charity from the US to Pak which will go into the pockets of the PA which will use it to fund terror against India.

US wants all other countries to toe its line and interests but not bothered about what it's friends and allies want. Remember I am a pro US person. But I still have my grieviences against th US and esp wrt to Pak.

Really, drone attacks mean nothing ?? - what do you think all these Jihadi groups will be doing if they controlled the whole area bordering Afghanistan - sipping tea ? The Drone attacks have turned some of these guys against even the Pak Army. Count the number of attacks against the Pak Army/navy by these guys in the last 2 years alone.

You guys all have a difficult time admitting one very simple fact - India cant do squat to Pak, even if it knows where their terror camps are located, and where their worst ISI raghead Jihadis are located. India cannot take them out with covert Ops, or drones, or direct military strikes. Even if they know Dawood's address for years - they still have no ability to take him out. India has zero leverage over Pakistan.

The US on the other hand is different - no threat of nuclear attack is going to stop the US from going after who it wants to go after.
The US is the only country that can apply pressure on Pakistan, and I can bet you if things blow up between India and Pak...the first person both sides are going to call is guess who ??

The US is not engaged with Pak to save India - it is doing it for its own interests. But at least stop whining about it.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

It always starts like this with the US. They've got serious problems with mood swings.

Female secretaries of state: Madeleine Albrighl and Hillary Clinton = mood swings.

 

[The Messiah]

Female secretaries of state: Madeleine Albrighl and Hillary Clinton = mood swings.

Good thing you yanks haven't voted one to the white house then

 

[The Messiah]

We should ask US some questions:

- Can they return POK to us and open up route to CAR in our own territory for us?

- Can they guarantee 12% oil supply that Iran gives to us for the rest of our existence?

- Can it severe ties with Pakistan and China for our sake?

If the answer for any of these is NO, then the same is from our end.

- Indian getting pok goes against usa interest because India growing more powerful is not what any existing superpower would want.

- They cannot. At most they could point us to there lackies that are the saudis and i dont know about you but i wouldn't to put all my eggs in the wahabi basket.

- Pakis are at the core of there regional power ambitions. So no they wont ever abandon the pakis. Chinis are not in usa control that they will leave them...they are interdependent on trade.