Anglosphere - India's Future?

[Mad Indian]

@argumentum

For someone who calls himself a liberal you are so dogmatic. So according to you- the Greeks , who had institutional slavery were liberals because of their socratic methods of discussion(which in actuality only means being rational) and Nehru who stiffled economic rights with his production quotas and licences and socialist planning and stiffling of free market and hence the economic rights of the citizens was liberal because he believed in reasoning(again being rational). Awesome. For one second you had me believing that you were an actual liberal

 

[argumentum]

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, yet he was a classical liberal. You fail to separate theory from reality. What matters are the ideas he had and the direction he moved the country in.

Again, I am against socialism, completely. Arguing semantics is boring, if you feel so strongly about I won't call Nehru a "liberal". At least acknowledge that he did believe in some liberal ideas to a degree (freedom of speech, freedom of religion, rule of law, democracy).

Liberalism includes property rights for the wealthy as well as the poor. So the french revolution, in which the poor stole from and murdered the wealthy was not all that liberal either.

 

[Mad Indian]

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, yet he was a classical liberal. You fail to separate theory from reality. What matters are the ideas he had and the direction he moved the country in.

Err. Yeah. So? Since when was ancient Greece or Rome liberal in any sense of the word? I never disputed that American founding fathers were liberals till now , hypocrites yes, but liberals nonetheless.

Again, I am against socialism, completely. Arguing semantics is boring, if you feel so strongly about it I'll take back what I said about Nehru.

Labels and identity are very important. Dont play fast and loose with them. You dont have to see that far to see why that would be bad - just look at USA. Liberalism has been so bastardised that , the present day liberals are nothing more than control freak, entitled dingbats who stiffle free speech and free market. The actual liberals of USA are now forced to call themselves "Libertarians" just to maintain an identity

Liberalism includes property rights for the wealthy as well as the poor. So the french revolution, in which the poor stole from and murdered the wealthy was not all that liberal either.

And who said French revolution was liberal again? French revolution was kind of a Republican dictatorship. But most of the initial supporters of the revolution were classical liberals. But they got sidelined and by the time of reign of terror, it had become a complete terror state.

 

[Rowdy]

I like China ...............

 

[argumentum]

"The actual liberals of USA are now forced to call themselves "Libertarians" just to maintain an identity"

Lol, I know .. I hate that. I just say classical liberal, but no one knows what that means.

Honestly I feel we're pretty much on the same side on most things.

 

[argumentum]

Err. Yeah. So? Since when was ancient Greece or Rome liberal in any sense of the word? I never disputed that American founding fathers were liberals till now , hypocrites yes, but liberals nonetheless.

Labels and identity are very important. Dont play fast and loose with them. You dont have to see that far to see why that would be bad - just look at USA. Liberalism has been so bastardised that , the present day liberals are nothing more than control freak, entitled dingbats who stiffle free speech and free market. The actual liberals of USA are now forced to call themselves "Libertarians" just to maintain an identity

And who said French revolution was liberal again? French revolution was kind of a Republican dictatorship. But most of the initial supporters of the revolution were classical liberals. But they got sidelined and by the time of reign of terror, it had become a complete terror state.

Regarding the word "liberal", in America these labels are more descriptors of what "team" your on than what you believe. When Milton Friedman was asked why a "conservative" like him was opposed to the drug war & the draft, he said it's because he wasn't one .. he was a liberal, which just meant he believed in freedom.

So I think we can see it as a spectrum. How "liberal" someone is depends on how much he/she believes in freedom. So Nehru was not as liberal as Friedman, for example, but much more liberal than say Stalin.

 

[prohumanity]

"total integration with America is like Midas touch..."

Well...what happened to this Midas touch in countries like Philippines, Pakistan, Saudi etc. Are they all Gold now ? No, I think they are poor slaves...not much Gold.
Isn't it better to live with self respect and less Gold than being some one's poodle and have more Gold ? India has lived until now..with its head high and accepted less Gold in return.
The Anglo-Spheric mind only understands just one language..and that is ..language of materialism and "I,Me and Myself" These are adolescent cultures ...it will take time for them to understand the meaning of "social justice"
"love and harmony" "wellbeing of all fellow humans"
The narcissism of an adolescent slowly gets milder as he ages...I think..the same will happen to Anglo-sphere cultures as they mature.

 

[Mad Indian]

Regarding the word "liberal", in America these labels are more descriptors of what "team" your on than what you believe. When Milton Friedman was asked why a "conservative" like him was opposed to the drug war & the draft, he said it's because he wasn't one .. he was a liberal, which just meant he believed in freedom.

So I think we can see it as a spectrum. How "liberal" someone is depends on how much he/she believes in freedom. So Nehru was not as liberal as Friedman, for example, but much more liberal than say Stalin.

Yes there are difference in degree of liberalism. But that does not mean a dingbat like Nehru was liberal. By the same measure one can call Hitler liberal compared to Stalin (for arguments sake).

 

[Mad Indian]

"total integration with America is like Midas touch..."

Well...what happened to this Midas touch in countries like Philippines, Pakistan, Saudi etc. Are they all Gold now ? No, I think they are poor slaves...not much Gold.
Isn't it better to live with self respect and less Gold than being some one's poodle and have more Gold ? India has lived until now..with its head high and accepted less Gold in return.
The Anglo-Spheric mind only understands just one language..and that is ..language of materialism and "I,Me and Myself" These are adolescent cultures ...it will take time for them to understand the meaning of "social justice"
"love and harmony" "wellbeing of all fellow humans"
The narcissism of an adolescent slowly gets milder as he ages...I think..the same will happen to Anglo-sphere cultures as they mature.

Is that why you are living in US right now? Because you thought about love and harmony of the world?

Dude get over this socialist nonsense that we owe any body anything. Nobody owes anybody anything

 

[ezsasa]

Image is from a different context, i thought it demonstrates the co-relation with "Anglo-sphere" to an extent.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Is that why you are living in US right now? Because you thought about love and harmony of the world?

Dude get over this socialist nonsense that we owe any body anything. Nobody owes anybody anything

Half of these NRIs living in US hate US but still continue to live off on opportunities provided by the big daddy! When you point them to this hypocrisy, they point towards the great gains they (and few others) have made by studying on taxpayer's money in India i.e. some sort of socialism, completely ignoring the vast sea of humanity which could not learn to even read due to this failed system and still lives sub-human lives.

 

[argumentum]

Half of these NRIs living in US hate US but still continue to live off on opportunities provided by the big daddy! When you point them to this hypocrisy, they point towards the great gains they (and few others) have made by studying on taxpayer's money in India i.e. some sort of socialism, completely ignoring the vast sea of humanity which could not learn to even read due to this failed system and still lives sub-human lives.

The great irony of socialism is that it always works much better for those on top than those on the bottom. Btw, it's definitely not true that 1/2 of Indian Americans hate the US. There are a few diaspora pseudo-intellectuals that write for western newspapers (someone mentioned Pankaj Mishra).

Also the US high school history curriculum basically teaches us to hate our country's history and founding principles. One of my cousins actual high school homework assignment was to explain how America was a vehicle for white male world domination, "as it so obviously is" she said. This from a girl whose parents are .com millionaires and got a porsche for her 16th bday. .

It takes a while for kids to get out of this spell once they leave school. Some never do.

 

[Mad Indian]

The great irony of socialism is that it always works much better for those on top than those on the bottom. Btw, it's definitely not true that 1/2 of Indian Americans hate the US. There are a few diaspora pseudo-intellectuals that write for western newspapers (someone mentioned Pankaj Mishra).

Also the US high school history curriculum basically teaches us to hate our country's history and founding principles. One of my cousins actual high school homework assignment was to explain how America was a vehicle for white male world domination, "as it so obviously is" she said. This from a girl whose parents are .com millionaires and got a porsche for her 16th bday. .

It takes a while for kids to get out of this spell once they leave school. Some never do.

Interesting. I have heard that schools and academia of the USA has been infested with oikophobic cultural marxists/marxists by the average citizens of USA , but I never imagined that it to be this bad. This is another thing we have in common then- shitty leftist syllabus

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Interesting. I have heard that schools and academia of the USA has been infested with oikophobic cultural marxists/marxists by the average citizens of USA , but I never imagined that it to be this bad. This is another thing we have in common then- shitty leftist syllabus

Just wait for the trained and stupid generation of the US to get into real politics.

 

[Mad Indian]

Just wait for the trained and stupid generation of the US to get into real politics.

For some reason I cant explain(call it instinct), I dont think US will fall that far into the rot. They seem to get some knocked into them every now and then. I wont be surprised at all if US turns sharply to the right in a decade or two.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

For some reason I cant explain(call it instinct), I dont think US will fall that far into the rot. They seem to get some knocked into them every now and then. I wont be surprised at all if US turns sharply to the right in a decade or two.

I think it has crossed the demographic threshold beyond redemption. Single mothers, blacks and hispanics almost form majority and they would prefer extension of state benefits in the near future. It would be interesting to watch the developments.

 

[Mad Indian]

I think it has crossed the demographic threshold beyond redemption. Single mothers, blacks and hispanics almost form majority and they would prefer extension of state benefits in the near future. It would be interesting to watch the developments.

Fair point. This is exactly what the conservative free marketers are saying as the reason why Immigration would be bad for free market!

 

[Rowdy]

I think it has crossed the demographic threshold beyond redemption. Single mothers, blacks and hispanics almost form majority and they would prefer extension of state benefits in the near future. It would be interesting to watch the developments.

Yup...I would love to see what happens. Interesting times we live in.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Yup...I would love to see what happens. Interesting times we live in.

Rise of China has really hit them hard and US cannot believe they funded their own demise through enhanced trade. This is the reason I do not believe in the infallibility of their reason and logic.

 

[Rowdy]

Rise of China has really hit them hard and US cannot believe they funded their own demise through enhanced trade. This is the reason I do not believe in the infallibility of their reason and logic.

On Immigrants , here in DE
@Mad Indian @Rashna
On China,
Yup they thought of China as another Korea/Singapore.
But if I have learned one thing in my life it is that we must be able to profit from all situations....this chinese posture has given some stress to Japan and US and they want to industrialize india...since India lacks the Capital...and vast majority of Indians are good followers but bad leaders, this should work out a positive profit for us. Simply because we have not much lower to go.