Andaman & Nicobar Defence Discussion

[laughingbuddha]

So many things to do.

Let's hope the economy picks up and we can then afford to expand and modernise in a big way.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

More important then fleet is Infrastructure >>

1. Floating repair docks ..
2. Infantry emplacements ( Concrete ) ..
3. Cruise & SAM Missile batteries ..
4. Artillery emplacements ( Concrete ) ..
5. Gunships and Armour ( Overhaul facilities and stations ) ..
6. Electronic Mines at vital beach landing zones ..
7. Airstrips with Bomb proof bunkers ..
8. Multiple surveillance radar stations ..

 

[bengalraider]

Fill the Andaman with bastion/Brahmos ASCM/Nirbhay ASCM systems in hardened shelters and complement that with a multi layered sir defense system consisting of multiple S-300/400class systems along with Akash and Python add super green pine radars from Israel to track incoming aircraft and ships at ranges upto 900km alongwith a Russian 29B6 providing radar coverage upto 3,000km then build hardened shelters to house at least a complete division of fully equipped troops along with light mechanized armor. Add at least four squadrons of super Sukhois and a similar number of dedicated destroyers/cruisers and SSK/SSN's and you're good to go

P.S for added effect i suggest we get two Kirov class Battlecruisers and one more Akula built in Russia and station them there as well.

Oh well my wet dream is done

 

[Ray]

With the Chinese plan to build the canal in the Isthmus of Kra (Thailand), the area around the Andaman and Nicobar will be chockablock full as it will the the second and more favourable conduit to the Pacific from the Indian Ocean than the Straits of Malacca.

It will also attract much naval activities of foreign nations and some o fit would be inimical to Indian interest.

Therefore, a full fledged triservice presence, hence Military Command, become essential in Andaman and Nicobar group of islands.

In teh event of conflict, both the Isthmus of Kra and the Straits of Malacca would have to surveilled and hostile naval presence blocked and routed.

 

[p2prada]

With the Chinese plan to build the canal in the Isthmus of Kra (Thailand), the area around the Andaman and Nicobar will be chockablock full as it will the the second and more favourable conduit to the Pacific from the Indian Ocean than the Straits of Malacca.

It will also attract much naval activities of foreign nations and some o fit would be inimical to Indian interest.

Therefore, a full fledged triservice presence, hence Military Command, become essential in Andaman and Nicobar group of islands.

In teh event of conflict, both the Isthmus of Kra and the Straits of Malacca would have to surveilled and hostile naval presence blocked and routed.

It would be good if we build up military relations with Malaysia and Singapore. Work towards a NATO type arrangement for surveillance and intelligence sharing with the two countries. This will reduce our logistics footprint and increase reaction time. This could easily double or triple our intelligence assets in a very short time.

 

[Ray]

It would be good if we build up military relations with Malaysia and Singapore. Work towards a NATO type arrangement for surveillance and intelligence sharing with the two countries. This will reduce our logistics footprint and increase reaction time. This could easily double or triple our intelligence assets in a very short time.

Malaysia tends to be pro Chinese in its approach since their economy is Chinese Malay controlled.

Singapore may have quite a few Chinese, but the western influence prevails.

 

[p2prada]

Malaysia tends to be pro Chinese in its approach since their economy is Chinese Malay controlled.

Singapore may have quite a few Chinese, but the western influence prevails.

True, but these are interesting times considering the maritime dispute.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...erious-threat-chinas-security.html#post946385

U.S. Navy may station ships in Singapore, Philippines | Reuters

They want American military presence in their territories. They will definitely welcome Indian support.

 

[Ray]

Without getting into details, suffice it so say that Singapore is more concerned with Malaysia and Indonesia and so the US presence.

Malaysia has denied allowing P8 being based on its soil.

 

[p2prada]

Without getting into details, suffice it so say that Singapore is more concerned with Malaysia and Indonesia and so the US presence.

That's fine. We can work out an intelligence setup on a quid pro quo basis. We spy on everybody and let them know what Indonesia is doing, they let us know what China is up to. Their geographic location is pretty good to spy on the Chinese, while they will struggle doing the same on Indonesia. I'm not saying only we should benefit out of this relationship.

I'm pretty sure the Americans want the same in relation with Singapore. They will spy on the Chinese and will expect Singapore to do the same.

Malaysia has denied allowing P8 being based on its soil.

Then what other countries are options?

Vietnam isn't particularly close to Kar, but any Chinese ships will have to travel past them. They can be great in providing early warning. With enough surveillance equipment delivered by Russia, they could spy on Chinese subs too. Their proximity to Hainan will be a blessing in disguise.

Thailand is an option, they are a major non-NATO ally. And Thailand-China relations are poorer than before. They have been buying a lot of European and American equipment.

So I guess it's only these two apart from Malaysia and Singapore.

 

[Ray]

That's fine. We can work out an intelligence setup on a quid pro quo basis. We spy on everybody and let them know what Indonesia is doing, they let us know what China is up to. Their geographic location is pretty good to spy on the Chinese, while they will struggle doing the same on Indonesia. I'm not saying only we should benefit out of this relationship.

I'm pretty sure the Americans want the same in relation with Singapore. They will spy on the Chinese and will expect Singapore to do the same.



Then what other countries are options?

Vietnam isn't particularly close to Kar, but any Chinese ships will have to travel past them. They can be great in providing early warning. With enough surveillance equipment delivered by Russia, they could spy on Chinese subs too. Their proximity to Hainan will be a blessing in disguise.

Thailand is an option, they are a major non-NATO ally. And Thailand-China relations are poorer than before. They have been buying a lot of European and American equipment.

So I guess it's only these two apart from Malaysia and Singapore.

Actually Thailand is warming up with China and getting financial aid as also assistance for her railway. They are acting cool with the US.

Vietnam is getting anti Chinese.

And you are right all are spying on each other.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

More important then fleet is Infrastructure >>

1. Floating repair docks ..
2. Infantry emplacements ( Concrete ) ..
3. Cruise & SAM Missile batteries ..
4. Artillery emplacements ( Concrete ) ..
5. Gunships and Armour ( Overhaul facilities and stations ) ..
6. Electronic Mines at vital beach landing zones ..
7. Airstrips with Bomb proof bunkers ..
8. Multiple surveillance radar stations ..

more imp

good long range radars and sonars which are KEPT ON 24*7*365

 

[Bhadra]

Modi acts swiftly to expand Military base at Andaman & Nicobar Islands to assert dominance over the Indian Ocean
http://www.defencenews.in/defence-news-internal.aspx?id=FZsHwcwNZQk=

Located just north of Indonesia, the Andaman and Nicobar Islands rest between the Bay of Bengal to the west and the Andaman Sea to the east. Great Nicobar Island, the southernmost point of India and of the island chain stands next to the Strait of Malacca, one of the most important shipping lanes in the world.

Located just north of Indonesia, the Andaman and Nicobar Islands rest between the Bay of Bengal to the west and the Andaman Sea to the east. Great Nicobar Island, the southernmost point of India and of the island chain stands next to the Strait of Malacca, one of the most important shipping lanes in the world.

Over 60,000 ships pass through the Malacca Strait every year and it is the energy lifeline for Southeast and East Asian countries. The Strait is also the closest access point from China to the Indian Ocean. For those reasons, the islands location is a significant asset to India in checking Chinese naval power in the region.


India's Expansion of Military Presence ::

Port Blair which is the administrative center of the Andaman Islands currently hosts the Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC) of the Indian Armed Forces. The ANC is the only joint tri-service command in India’s military and comprises forces from the navy, air force, and army. Established in 2001 to allow for joint operations between the three armed services, the ANC saw little development until recently. There were attempts to expand the military presence though no serious inroads were made over the years. Under current Prime Minister Narendra Modi though, there is a concerted effort to expand as Modi seeks to reassert India’s traditional dominance over the Indian Ocean.

At opposite ends of the island chain, India is constructing longer airstrips that will be able to host long-range surveillance aircraft. In the south at Campbell Bay there is INS Baaz, an airbase that was constructed in 2012 overlooking the Malacca Strait. Currently, New Delhi plans to greatly extend the length of the runway there allowing the base to take on bigger planes such as the Boeing P8 surveillance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft. There are plans to in the near future to place multirole Su-30MKI fighter jets at both INS Baaz and at NAS Shibpur which is located on North Andaman Island. These will provide the Indian military with a powerful strike capability that can be used against enemy warships if needed.

Meanwhile the Indian Navy is looking to double the vessels it has in the ANC to 32 by 2022. Already around 14 ships such as patrol boats, fast attack craft (FAC), and amphibious landing ships are based at INS Jarawa in Port Blair though future plans call for larger, more capable warships such as frigates to be based there. To help facilitate the expansion of the base, plans are in place to acquire a new floating dry dock for the base that will supplement the floating dock already in operation there.


China and the Indian Ocean ::

Ships of China’s Peoples Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) have increasingly been making forays into the Indian Ocean and docking in ports of India’s neighbors. This is causing concern in New Delhi where it is feared that China is attempting to increase its influence and presence in the Indian Ocean where India has been the dominant power. Chinese officials have repeatedly denied any hostile intentions though have also said that Indian should not consider the Indian Ocean as its own backyard. Both countries share somewhat good relations though there are many issues that cause dispute and this is one of them.

Senior Captain Zhao Yi, associate professor of the Institute of Strategy in China’s National Defense University recently said “backyard is not a very appropriate word to use for an open sea and international areas of sea.” This was said in Beijing during an interaction with Indian journalists in response to a question regarding increasing Chinese navy forays into the Indian Ocean. Zhao did admit though that India “has a special role to play in stabilizing the Indian Ocean region” due to geographical considerations. Meanwhile Senior Captain Wei Xiao Dong, chief of staff of the Shanghai Naval Garrison said in response to Indian journalists concerns about PLAN activities in the Indian Ocean, that there is no reason to “show concern or worry”.

For New Delhi, more unsettling than PLAN warships entering the Indian Ocean, is the presence of PLAN submarines. In May, a PLAN Type 041 submarine for the first time docked in Karachi, Pakistan. China immediately downplayed the event saying that PLAN activities in the Indian Ocean such as this routine port visit are “open and transparent” and that they are not directed at any nation. Last September, a PLAN submarine docked in Colombo, Sri Lanka and several weeks later in November another PLAN submarine along with a warship docked in Sri Lanka.


Future ::

While Beijing paints its intentions for the Indian Ocean as nothing but peaceful, its dialogue is mixed with veiled threats aimed at New Delhi. On one hand China states that its ships are just transiting or taking part in training missions while on the other hand it is quick to claim that the Indian Ocean is not the sole preserve of India. True, the Indian Ocean does not belong to India but India is the dominant power and has every right to be concerned when PLAN warships are visiting the ports of countries India has less than positive relations with.

The expansion of the military bases in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands will provide India with the means to better check incoming PLAN vessels before they can reach the Bay of Bengal and Indian Ocean. In a way the islands can be viewed as the first line of defense India has against China in the Indian Ocean. Furthermore, their location near the Malacca Strait is of vital importance.

Over three-quarters of China’s energy imports flow through that Strait. In the event of a conflict between India and China, India has the means to blockade the Strait and in the process, deprive China of oil and gas; one would hope though that such a scenario will not come to pass. Regardless, New Delhi is taking a smart step by expanding its military presence in the islands, one which might cause Beijing to rethink its plans in the Indian Ocean.

 

[Bhadra]

At least thirty characters ... should suffice

 

[Bhadra]

Green nod for radar station at Narcondam in Andamans

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...arcondam-in-Andamans/articleshow/36411949.cms
NEW DELHI: After granting green clearance to a major naval infrastructure project at Karwar along the western coast, the environment ministry has now given its go-ahead to install a radar station at Narcondam in Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

The project was pending for long despite repeated requests from the defence establishment which wanted to install the radar at the strategic location in view of suspected Chinese presence and "listening post" on nearby Coco Island.

Though Coco Island in the Bay of Bengal belongs to Myanmar, China is learnt to have set up extensive infrastructure there.

Environment minister Prakash Javadekar told TOI that the radar project was of strategic important to India. "Only 8-10 people will be employed at the station. It will not in any way affect the natural environment there," the minister said, wondering why such an important project was kept pending for so long under the previous government.

Referring to Coco Island, Javadekar had said on Monday that China has a presence there. "If China is sitting in front and is doing something and we can't even monitor, the country cannot run like that. So these kinds of projects, which are of importance to the country's security, we have started clearing on a priority basis," he had said while addressing reporters at the Indian Women's Press Corps.

Green activists, however, objected to the project when it first came into the public domain a couple of years ago. Pointing out that Narcondam is home to around 300 Narcondam Hornbill, a rare bird found nowhere else in the world, they had demanded that the project not be cleared as it would affect the rare species. They had said clearance to the radar project would be the "death knell for Narcondam Hornbills".

The green signal to the radar station comes after the environment ministry gave clearance to Phase-IIA expansion of the futuristic Karwar naval base in coastal Karnataka, which is designed to give India both strategic depth and operational flexibility on the western seaboard against Pakistan.

The Cabinet Committee on Security had cleared the around Rs 13,000 crore Phase-IIA expansion of the base over two years ago but it was stuck for want of environmental clearance. After the Rs 2,629 crore Phase-I, the Karwar base can berth 11 major warships and 10 yardcraft. The warships include aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya. The Navy will be able to berth 32 major warships and submarines after Phase-IIA is completed by around 2020.

 

[Bhadra]

Centre puts bombs before birds
- UPA missile testing policy for Andamans reversed
Sujan Dutta

The Narcondam Hornbill

New Delhi, May 20: The Narendra Modi government has granted the military permission to test missiles targeting four ecologically fragile islands in the Andaman and Nicobar group in the Bay of Bengal, junking a UPA policy derisively known as "birds-over-bombs".

The islands are uninhabited or largely uninhabited for most of the year, a source in the defence ministry claimed.

Environmental organisations such as the Nature Conservation Foundation, Mysore, claim the islands are home to a variety of flora and fauna. Among wildlife seen on the islands are birds such as the Nicobarese Megapode, the Sparrowhawk, the Glossy Swiftlet, crocodiles and water monitors.

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The islands are Tillanchong - which will host targets for Tube-Launched Land Attack Missiles (T-LAMs) from the navy's submarines and warships - Trinkat, Trek and the Isle of Man.

Narcondam Island in the northeast Andamans is also expected to be used for installation of more sensors to make it a high-powered "listening post". The island became the centre of a controversy after the navy put up a radar station there because it is home to what ornithologists call a rare species of bird named the "Narcondam Hornbill".

Ironically, to the dismay of environmentalists, the navy has two warships named after two of the islands that are in its crosshairs: the INS Tillanchang was part of the fleet till the government transferred (or gifted) it to the Maldives. The INS Trinkat continues to be part of the fleet.

The navy last tested its missiles in Tillanchong in 2008. When it asked for permission to use the island as a firing range and for target practice, the UPA government had rejected the request.

In October 2012, then environment minister, the Congress's Jayanthi Natarajan, said the rejection was a "very, very difficult decision because it involves national security, and a missile range is important".

The navy has a forward operating base at INS Kardip in Kamorta in the Nicobar group of islands.

Defence ministry sources said the navy, the army and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will use Tillanchong to test Russian-origin T-LAMs called Klubs, the India-Russia joint-venture missile, Brahmos, and possibly the delivery vehicles for a secretive strategic missile capable of carrying nuclear warheads fired from submarines sometimes referred to in official literature as the Sagarika, the K-15 and the K-9.

Nuclear warheads are not used in tests. The army and the navy want to test conventional weapons with live warheads.

The army tested the Brahmos missile, which has a range of 290km, this month.

Military sources say they emphasise the importance of testing the missiles because "we have not been able to expend our annual practice allowance for many years". Each weapon in the arsenal comes with an "annual practice allowance" that is a small percentage - usually three to five per cent of the total number held - that has to be fired before the weapons are used in actual hostilities or before the end of their expiry date.

The Klub T-LAMs, the tube-missiles which can be fired to attack targets on land from under water, are imported from Russia. They are now standard in all modern warships of the navy but have not been fired in Indian conditions. They have been tested only in Russia.

This complicates matters because, first, the weapons could not be tested in conditions in which they are likely to be used. Second, the crew do not get enough practice.

"The business of war is expensive," explained one officer. "We have to keep firing to learn to shoot straight."

Environmentalists say increasing militarisation of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands is leading to clashes between soldiers and traditional livelihood systems like the Nicobarese "tuhets". But military officials argue that not only are readiness and training important, it is also difficult to find uninhabited spaces within Indian territory.

The possibility of missiles missing the islands during practice also has to be taken into account in designating targets. Mercantile traffic in the Bay of Bengal around the Andamans is less than that around the Lakshadweep and Minicoy Islands on India's west coast. The bulk of the traffic through the Bay of Bengal passes south of Nicobar to the Straits of Malacca.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150521/jsp/frontpage/story_21266.jsp#.Vas4UpoViM8

 

[Bhadra]

Narcondam and Coco Island - radar coverage

 

[Bhadra]

Trinket, Trek, Isle of Man and Tillanchong groupf of Islands

 

[Prashant12]

Govt for green nod to expansion of naval air station in Andaman and Nicobar islands

Govt recommends green nod for expansion of Indian naval air station NAS Shibpur in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands region, which is home to important species of birds and mammals

Apart from forest clearance, the project also needs environmental, coastal and wildlife clearance. Photo: Shamik Bag
New Delhi: The expert forest panel of the Union environment ministry has recommended a green clearance for expansion of NAS Shibpur, an Indian naval air station in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands region, which is home to several important species of birds and mammals.

Besides strengthening India’s security and surveillance capabilities over the northern group of islands in Andaman and Nicobar, the project is also expected to give a boost to infrastructure.

Andaman and Nicobar Islands are highly important for India from both security and strategic perspectives. They are at the entrance to the Malacca Strait, the world’s busiest shipping route.

With China strengthening its navy and increasing its influence in the Indian Ocean Region, India has taken up the task of strengthening its defence capabilities in the area over the past few years. In 2012, the Indian Navy had commissioned the naval air station ‘Baaz’ at Campbell Bay on the Great Nicobar Island. It is the southernmost air station of the Indian armed forces.

The Shibpur project involves diversion of around 100 hectares (about 20,018 trees) of forest land for expansion of its runway.

NAS Shibpur is on the northern most inhabited island in North Andaman. The airfield provides sustained detached operations for the India Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard Dornier, MI 8 and Chetak aircraft.

The project was discussed during the recent meeting of the environment ministry’s Forest Advisory Committee (FAC) on 25 April.

As per the site inspection report of the environment ministry’s regional office in Chennai, which was considered by FAC, the present runway length is 1,000 metres, where only a few aircraft can land, but after expansion the length can be extended to 3,000 metres for operation of wide-bodied defence and civilian planes.

“This will not only help towards development of the northern Andaman habitat but will also help during calamity. Strategically also, the runway extension is important,” the site report had said.

As per the minutes of the FAC meeting, which were reviewed by Mint, the panel was informed that the “extension of runway will not only consolidate the security cover over northern group of islands but will also assist in rapid development of civil infrastructure which will immensely benefit the local civil population”.

“The Navy officials emphasized the strategic importance and the disaster relief impact of the project,” the minutes said. It was also stressed during the meeting that the project does not involve any displacement of people.

The local forest officials, in their report, also recommended the project. “...the area has immense strategic importance to enhance the security of Andaman and Nicobar Islands as well as our as country,” they said. The Andaman and Nicobar Islands administration also recommended the project on the same grounds.

FAC, after hearing the “Navy officials and taking into consideration the strategic importance of the proposal recommended the project” for forest clearance. The recommendation will now have to be accepted or denied by the Anil Madhav Dave-led ministry of environment, forests and climate change (MoEFCC). The environment ministry rarely overturns recommendations of the expert panel and with the project being a strategic project it is expected to be approved.

Animals found in the area include mammals like the north Andaman horseshoe bat, jungle cat, barking deer, spotted deer, dolphin, elephant, wild pig, Andaman Island spiny shrew, blue whale, false killer whale and sperm whale. It also has reptiles like the monitor lizard, leatherback turtle and saltwater crocodile.

The area is also house to birds like Wilson’s storm-petrel, red-tailed tropicbird, spot-billed pelican, red-footed booby, little egret, Andaman teal, black eagle, grey francolin, peregrine falcon, Andaman cuckoo dove, Siberian blue robin, Olive-backed sunbird, large Andaman Drongo and others.

There are 20,018 trees in the area which is sought for diversion and they would be required to be removed for the expansion.

To compensate for them, FAC stated that 100 hectares of degraded forest land will be identified and be earmarked for compensatory afforestation. “The degraded forest land will be planted preferably at the rate of 1000 per hectare for compensating the trees lost,” FAC said.

Apart from forest clearance, the project also needs environmental, coastal and wildlife clearance. It needs wildlife clearance as the project area is just 3.5 kilometres from the Saddle Peak National Park.


http://www.livemint.com/Politics/er...o-expansion-of-naval-air-station-in-Anda.html

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I have a question for long long time. I have seen some photos of Andamn islands. Some are very small and parted by a small distance. Can we fill some soil and make them a large stretch of land useful for all military purposes like chinese artificial island? If possible, I am fully in favor of doing that.

 

[Krusty]

I have a question for long long time. I have seen some photos of Andamn islands. Some are very small and parted by a small distance. Can we fill some soil and make them a large stretch of land useful for all military purposes like chinese artificial island? If possible, I am fully in favor of doing that.

Land reclamation is always possible to increase the area of the islands. I have no clue why india doesn't push forward with reclamation for strategic islands. Or maybe they consider that the area is enough for whatever military requirement. Not sure though.