Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Manas7, Apr 7, 2013.
Amit Shah, the grand strategist : North, News - India Today
He's the best political strategist, only Amit Shah can do some settings. I attracted to one part of the article which people should understand. Amit Shah is hardcore RSS guy, he keeps the wahabi radical muslims always under his radar and remains very flexible to moderate muslim. This thing needs to be understood properly. RSS is never against muslims.It's some radical items really should be countered. People call them communal but these are the people who actually fights communal forces. RSS is essential otherwise Hindus would have suferred a lot.These radical people should be controlled and countered and that's what RSS is doing.I remember 2002 when RSS protected some of the colonies of Juhapura, 2002 riots never reached to saurashtra,again thanx to RSS.
To be frank, if the Indian courts could move faster, we would know the status of all the alleged accused politicians of all riots.
Guilty or not.
This half way home with the Police and CBI tainted and the prosecutors wasting time, leads none being wiser.
Hence, the political merry go around goes on and we are not aware of the reality to take a decision!
Explains why he is being hounded. After all, our sickular crowd loves "seculars" like Sohrabuddin and Ishrat et al.
Extra judicial killings cannot be condoned, whatever the reason. They are against the rule of law and without rule of law no democracy can survive. Calling to question some suspicious action cannot be summarily dismissed. That is a dangerous tendency.
â€¨â€¨â€©Tell this to people who cheer up cops after watching Ab Tak 56, Aan, Garv,etc movies. Extra judicial killing of criminals is good thing whether constitution or judicial system support or not,period.It's the hardest truth.Maharashtra, UP have very high rate of fake encounters but nobody complains them because public supports cop.People consider them Hero. The reason behind framing Amit Shah is political. CBI doesn't have firm case against him.If anything happens to him in court, it would be a clear cut political vendetta.
How do you come to the conclusion that anybody is a criminal without a judicial process? Even if for arguments sake one accepts your suggestion "nobody complains", that is not the way to go if the country respects rule of law.
I am prepared to accept your claim that there is political agenda behind the case. That still does not make extra judicial killing lawful.
Any society that applauds extra judicial killings will soon fall into lawlessness.
Well, do you need any certificate that Dawood, Latif, Anees, Chhota Rajan and in this particular case Soharabuddin, Tulasi Prajapati, are criminals ??? People know that who's criminals in their areas. Even in this particular case, court knows Soharabuddin and Tulasi Prajapati are criminals, it's about your own understanding and etho, would you love to frame cops who kill criminals without prosecuting them or not. Just take a wild guess with consideration of our capability of judicial system. I wouldn't frame them.Let's for the sake of argument we accept that these criminals(not all, certified gundas who're in business of law breaking spree) should be prosecuted, but we all know these people can't be good, they will indeed do what they do. It's better to kill them instead wasting Tax Payers' money behind them.
Laws are there to protect the interest of public. Think about that,too. Any society that applauds extra judicial killing of CRIMINALS will soon find law and order,maharashtra, Gujarat are prime example.
The state becomes a police state if police begins bumping off suspects! And the police is corruptible as we all know and it could become a mercenary force then in the hands of reckless politicians!
Ok, accepting your argument that all hardcore criminals have been wiped out because of this 'kill'em all' policy. Then what? The same policy will get applied to lesser criminals, right? Any suspect could be handled that way, as a logical extension. Soon the powerful who have money/political power could ask the police to brand somebody a criminal and that would be a licence to knock him out.
And if courts are kept out, even people will think its is morally right to lynch anybody they think is a criminal. Kill pickpockets, petty thieves ... and one needs to just call out thief and the mob will do the rest.
Then why do you need prisons, lawyers, courts!
â€¨â€¨â€©Did I say we need same fate for lesser criminals ?? I specifically mentioned that in my post. You read that 1st. I know that police can kill innocent people in the name of encounters and I firmly argue that those cases must be prosecuted.But cases like Soharabudding, Lokhandwala, Latif,etc need to be ignored and cops shouldn't be prosecuted for that.In short such criminals who are in the business of law breaking spree shouldn't be prosecuted.You know what I mean.
Like it or not, police can arrest on suspicion, all over the world. Like it or not, if some suspect tries to escape, police have power to fire at them, all over the world. Will you disarm police force? You want to take away the power to arrest?
Courts could do with a little courage.
Where did I say police should not have power to arrest? It is perfectly within law to arrest a suspect and prevent his/her escape, interrogate him/her and prosecute the suspect. Firing at a suspect trying to flee is not unlawful either.
But the issue here is fake encounters. And they are extra judicial killings which no country where rule of law exists can countenance.
I have not attributed anything that you have not said to you.
I cited the case of people suspected of lesser crimes as a plausible scenario where rule of law breaks down. If you read my post carefully you will understand that. In a state where rule of law is compromised anybody can be targeted.
I have no problem in accepting that the suspects you mentioned are a curse on society. Still police cannot be given the power to be the prosecutor and adjudicator. Even agreeing that all those killed in so-called encounters were hardened criminals, such practice cannot be allowed to become the norm.
I was drawing up the kind of deterioration that could ensue if fake encounters are considered legit.
Why do we cheer for killing armed Kashmiri militants but mourn for a lowly scum like sohrabuddhin ?
What is the difference between the two ?
The discussion was about fake encounter. Not somebody getting killed in an encounter. My point is simple, fake encounters cannot be condoned in a state that respects rule of law. It is not a question of who is getting killed. It is simple, because considering fake encounter legit can have far-reaching repercussions on a society, particularly a pluralist one like India's.
All our rulers are not Plato's Philosopher Kings. That is why democracies give so much importance to rule of law.
if you guys are on the receiving end of trigger happy cops you will know what it feels to have extra judicial killings and fake encounters.
They have no role in our society. Those criminals flourish because lack of proper policing.
It does no become fake if a few terrorist lovers call it so. Perhaps, as per sickular policy, Sohrabuddin should have been rehabilitated with grants, lands, job etc.
If you were at receiving end of terrorism you will sing a different tune. Gill eradicated terror in Punjab by whatever means he could adopt. Zero tolerance to terror.
Yeah "rule of law" where a guy -- from whom hundreds of kilos of RDX, dozens of assault rifles and thousands of rounds were seized during 1993 blasts, a guy who has dozens of criminal cases against him, a guy who has couple of National Security Act cases against him, a guy who was an underworld don related to dawood and who was extortionist -- was roaming free due to loopholes in law. Please parcel that law in the a nice sheet of paper and throw into the Arabian sea.
One scum was killed. Period, And common public and law and order benefitted. I'm not loosing sleep over that.
To me, a criminal, an underworld scum was eliminated and the I'm no going to loose sleep whether that was fake or not. Actually it was fake, I would appreciate the police to take the initiative to get rid of this nuisance.
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