AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Adioz]

5th gen? We're still trying to sort out 4th gen issues while the West is well on its way to produce 6th gen fighters!

Here are the Qualitative Requirements for a 6th generation fighter as enunciated
to be far stealthier than fifth generation aircraft.

>It should be able to change its shape in flight, “morphing” to optimize for either speed or endurance.

> Its engines would be re-tunable in-flight for efficient supersonic cruise or subsonic loitering. (Hypersonics—that is, the ability of an air vehicle to travel at five times the speed of sound, or faster—has routinely been suggested as an attribute of sixth generation fighters).

> Armed with directed energy weapons—high-powered microwaves and lasers for defense against incoming missiles or as offensive weapons themselves. Munitions would likely be of the “dial an effect” type, able to cause anything from impairment to destruction of an air or ground target. These 'Speed of light' weapons, could negate the importance of the maneuverability we see in today’s fighters. There won’t be time to maneuver away from a directed energy attack. Because the DE beam shoots out at the speed of light or 186,000 miles per second!

> Materials and microelectronics technologies would combine to make the aircraft itself a large integrated sensor, possibly eliminating the need for a nose radar as it is known today. It would be equipped for making cyber attacks as well as achieving kinetic effects, but would still have to be cost-effective to make, service, and modify.

> Wide-ranging, intuitive views of “the extended world” around the aircraft. The aircraft will collect its own data and seamlessly fuse it with on and off-board sensors, including those on other aircraft. The difference from fifth generation will be the level of detail and certainty—the long-sought automatic target recognition.

> Embedded sensors and microelectronics will also make possible sensor arrays in locations that previously weren’t available because of either heat or the curvature of the surface, providing more powerful and comprehensive views of the battlefield. Although the aircraft probably won’t be autonomous, it will be able to “learn” and advise the pilot as to what actions to take—specifically, whether a target should be incapacitated temporarily, damaged, or destroyed.

> Traditional electronics will give way to photonics. There would have fewer wires, like on a multiplexed fiber-optic bus that connects all the systems, and because you can do things at different wavelengths of light, you can move lots of data around airplanes much faster, with much less weight in terms of 'wire bundles'. Fiber optics would also be resistant to jamming or spoofing of data and less prone to cyber attack.

> Integrated Pulse Weapons that could fry an enemy aircraft’s electronic systems from miles away.

Now that's one hell of a weapons platform!


And some are already talking of 7th gen which would likely be reality well before the end of this century. That would mean Cloaking Technology making the aircraft disappear completely from the visual as well as from the EM spectrum! Anti gravity technology allowing speeds in excess of Mach 50. Laser weapons and total control on maneuver with mind control sensors.

And that would mean Unmanned Weapons Platforms (UAPs) with 'pilots' sitting hundreds of miles away but with complete and total situational awareness - flying in VR - Virtual Reality!

And the DRDO is still trying to unravel the mysteries of 5th gen technologies!

Yeah OFC DRDO is well behind the curve, right? Boo DRDO Boooooooo. WTF has DRDO ever accomplished. DRDO is so late in developing stuff, that by the time it enters service, the tech is already obsolete. DRDO is a drain on national resources. It should be shut down for its incompetence. The people working in DRDO are a bunch of idiots. We should shut DRDO and give the funds and facilities to @Mikesingh who will ensure that India leapfrogs 5th gen fighters. @Mikesingh is so damn intelligent, he will single-handedly deliver the 8th gen fighter that can reach Proxima Centauri in one hour. All hail @Mikesingh .

Spoiler: In case you're wondering what I am talking about

Sarcasm

Didn't I mention 'before the end of this century'? Truth is stranger than fiction.

Is this the end of the fucking century? No. We are still in the first quarter. DRDO has 75 years to come up with the 7th gen fighter you are mentally masturbating over. How long did it take DRDO to go from no fighter to 4+ gen fighter to 5 gen fighter? 40 years.

Just a little over 100 years ago, scientists said that it is impossible to fly in a heavier than air machine. We've even reached the Moon. I'm sure Wilbur Wright wasn't reading Marvel comics.

A little earlier than that, scientists said that it was impossible to travel more than 50km an hour due to wind resistance!

HG Wells predicted automatic sliding doors in 1899, and the atomic bomb in his novel The World Set Free, written in 1913 and published the following year. Impossible said his contemporaries!

Isaac Asimov predicted global video calling, robots that serve in restaurants, flat screen TVs, 3D VR and self-driving cars. Impossible they said. They thought he's gone bonkers.

Sir Arthur C. Clarke's most famous prediction on the future was his proposal of geostationary satellite communications which was published in the Wireless World magazine in 1945. They all laughed at him and thought he was crazy!

Author Jules Verne wrote about a "projectile" that carried humans to the moon in his 1865 book. The book was laughed at by his contemporaries! Landing on the Moon in a capsule? They thought he's finally lost his marbles.

What sounded crazy a few years ago has become reality today like the 3D printer that can make stuff like jewelry to body parts to houses. Scientists are even examining its use in space to print spare parts and — oh yes — pizzas for astronauts!

And you don't have to carry a pizza oven weighing a ton on board for this. A small 3D printer weighing a few kgs does the job!

So friend, Yes, I'm living in the real world. Things are happening at the speed of light. And no, I don't read or see Marvel movies like you probably do.



Do you even know WTF you are talking about @darshan978 ? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Mach number is the ratio of the speed of the craft to the speed of sound at sea level which is 760 mph. Mach 5 would mean travelling at a continuous speed of 760 X 5 mph. This has absolutely nothing to do with g-force which is acceleration. g-forces are expressed in multiples of the acceleration of standard gravity. So a pilot in an aircraft in a tight turn at high speed experiences g-forces which he can withstand upto 8-g with a g-suit for a short time.

And you said that we can't survive mach 5 speed? And you smirked at this too! Man you need to get some education instead of spewing nonsense. It makes you look silly.

Do you know the speed of the space shuttle that have astronauts aboard before it even leaves the earth's atmosphere? To achieve orbit, the shuttle must accelerate from zero to a speed of almost 28,968 kilometers per hour (18,000 miles per hour), a speed nine times as fast as the average rifle bullet.

And that's Mach 24! But you said we can't survive Mach 5 speed? Lol! And you say I'm reading too many Marvel comics! I guess you better get a little more serious in your reading my friend. Comics will get you nowhere.

We can survive Mach 100000. So the F what? Can you survive accelerating up to Mach 20 from Mach 2? You can as long as you are within g limits, and by the time you accelerate upto that speed, you would have overshot your destination. But then guess what? You can only travel in very predictable paths. Maneuverability is ZERO. Why? Because you cannot handle the g-forces as your aircraft turns!!! You think its a tall order to shoot down a craft travelling at 24 Mach along a predictable path? Ever heard of BMD systems?

Before shouting your head off to @darshan978 , maybe you should have tried to consider what he was saying with an open mind.

Now if you are done dragging this thread off-topic, maybe you should stop. You could have gone and written your fantasies of 7th gen fighters on the relevant thread. There was no need to derail the AMCA thread with pointless nonsense.

 

[darshan978]

Just a little over 100 years ago, scientists said that it is impossible to fly in a heavier than air machine. We've even reached the Moon. I'm sure Wilbur Wright wasn't reading Marvel comics.

A little earlier than that, scientists said that it was impossible to travel more than 50km an hour due to wind resistance!

HG Wells predicted automatic sliding doors in 1899, and the atomic bomb in his novel The World Set Free, written in 1913 and published the following year. Impossible said his contemporaries!

Isaac Asimov predicted global video calling, robots that serve in restaurants, flat screen TVs, 3D VR and self-driving cars. Impossible they said. They thought he's gone bonkers.

Sir Arthur C. Clarke's most famous prediction on the future was his proposal of geostationary satellite communications which was published in the Wireless World magazine in 1945. They all laughed at him and thought he was crazy!

Author Jules Verne wrote about a "projectile" that carried humans to the moon in his 1865 book. The book was laughed at by his contemporaries! Landing on the Moon in a capsule? They thought he's finally lost his marbles.

What sounded crazy a few years ago has become reality today like the 3D printer that can make stuff like jewelry to body parts to houses. Scientists are even examining its use in space to print spare parts and — oh yes — pizzas for astronauts!

And you don't have to carry a pizza oven weighing a ton on board for this. A small 3D printer weighing a few kgs does the job!

So friend, Yes, I'm living in the real world. Things are happening at the speed of light. And no, I don't read or see Marvel movies like you probably do.



Do you even know WTF you are talking about @darshan978 ? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Mach number is the ratio of the speed of the craft to the speed of sound at sea level which is 760 mph. Mach 5 would mean travelling at a continuous speed of 760 X 5 mph. This has absolutely nothing to do with g-force which is acceleration. g-forces are expressed in multiples of the acceleration of standard gravity. So a pilot in an aircraft in a tight turn at high speed experiences g-forces which he can withstand upto 8-g with a g-suit for a short time.

And you said that we can't survive mach 5 speed? And you smirked at this too! Man you need to get some education instead of spewing nonsense. It makes you look silly.

Do you know the speed of the space shuttle that have astronauts aboard before it even leaves the earth's atmosphere? To achieve orbit, the shuttle must accelerate from zero to a speed of almost 28,968 kilometers per hour (18,000 miles per hour), a speed nine times as fast as the average rifle bullet.

And that's Mach 24! But you said we can't survive Mach 5 speed? Lol! And you say I'm reading too many Marvel comics! I guess you better get a little more serious in your reading my friend. Comics will get you nowhere.

Just wait from 100 years more there will be no resouces on earth make your imagenation into reality

Btw your thougts are really great but i too hope that such thing happens as u said.

but as per my pov(im not an expert) i dont think thats possible because of physics limits.

 

[Mikesingh]

Yeah OFC DRDO is well behind the curve, right? Boo DRDO Boooooooo. WTF has DRDO ever accomplished. DRDO is so late in developing stuff, that by the time it enters service, the tech is already obsolete. DRDO is a drain on national resources. It should be shut down for its incompetence. The people working in DRDO are a bunch of idiots. We should shut DRDO and give the funds and facilities to @Mikesingh who will ensure that India leapfrogs 5th gen fighters. @Mikesingh is so damn intelligent, he will single-handedly deliver the 8th gen fighter that can reach Proxima Centauri in one hour. All hail @Mikesingh .

Spoiler: In case you're wondering what I am talking about

Sarcasm

Is this the end of the fucking century? No. We are still in the first quarter. DRDO has 75 years to come up with the 7th gen fighter you are mentally masturbating over. How long did it take DRDO to go from no fighter to 4+ gen fighter to 5 gen fighter? 40 years.


We can survive Mach 100000. So the F what? Can you survive accelerating up to Mach 20 from Mach 2? You can as long as you are within g limits, and by the time you accelerate upto that speed, you would have overshot your destination. But then guess what? You can only travel in very predictable paths. Maneuverability is ZERO. Why? Because you cannot handle the g-forces as your aircraft turns!!! You think its a tall order to shoot down a craft travelling at 24 Mach along a predictable path? Ever heard of BMD systems?

Before shouting your head off to @darshan978 , maybe you should have tried to consider what he was saying with an open mind.

Now if you are done dragging this thread off-topic, maybe you should stop. You could have gone and written your fantasies of 7th gen fighters on the relevant thread. There was no need to derail the AMCA thread with pointless nonsense.

MIND YOUR LANGUAGE. We are here on this forum to discuss like gentlemen. You need to grow up.

Mods pleas check it out. He needs a rap on his knuckles for the trash he's written. Thanks.

@pmaitra @Kunal Biswas @LETHALFORCE @Yusuf @Dovah

 

[Adioz]

MIND YOUR LANGUAGE. We are here on this forum to discuss like gentlemen. You need to grow up.

Mods pleas check it out. He needs a rap on his knuckles for the trash he's written. Thanks.

@pmaitra @Kunal Biswas @LETHALFORCE @Yusuf

I am all for discussing like gentlemen as long as some people do not derail threads with fantasy and pointlessly laugh at DRDO for doing their work. You started this charade by denouncing the DRDO for working on AMCA when "the world is thinking about 6th gen and 7th fighters". I called out your BS by pointing to the fact that the DRDO has done plenty and has plenty of time to do more. And once your BS gets called out you run to the mods? Don't make jokes on DRDO's expense when you can't take them at your expense.

If I deserve a reprimand from the mods for calling out your BS, then so do you, for writing fantasy and using that to derail the thread and talk nonsense about DRDO.


That said, I am ready to retract my statement if you retract yours.

 

[Steven Rogers]

I am all for discussing like gentlemen as long as some people do not derail threads with fantasy and pointlessly laugh at DRDO for doing their work. You started this charade by denouncing the DRDO for working on AMCA when "the world is thinking about 6th gen and 7th fighters". I called out your BS by pointing to the fact that the DRDO has done plenty and has plenty of time to do more. And once your BS gets called out you run to the mods? Don't make jokes on DRDO's expense when you can't take them at your expense.

If I deserve a reprimand from the mods for calling out your BS, then so do you, for writing fantasy and using that to derail the thread and talk nonsense about DRDO.


That said, I am ready to retract my statement if you retract yours.

He has no idea about the AMCA, so he can laugh and think on 6th, 7th, 10th and alien ships invading America.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[scatterStorm]

6th gen aircraft would mostly be UAVs capable of resisting High G, more than 20G at-least. Thereby eliminating the human factor which seriously restricts the true ability of a fighter aircraft. They will be small, nimble could be piloted from the ground. Future is dark, much more darker than it was in WW2.

 

[AMCA]

BASIC FLIGHT SIMULATOR FOR AMCA

Send E-Mail
Basic Flight Simulator for AMCA


The fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) being designed by ADA, DRDO is a sophisticated aircraft with electronic cockpit and is configured with advanced technologies to perform complex tasks to achieve air dominance. A detailed analysis of different mission scenarios is required in order to generate baseline integrated avionics and weapon system requirements to meet the AMCA operational requirement. NAL has developed a platform covering generation AMCA aircraft modeling, simulation of subsystems and mission scenarios for study and analysis.



The Basic Flight Simulator for AMCA comprising of full envelope flight controller, simulation models of sub-systems, single window projection system and cockpit based MFDs Fuel, Engine, Electrical, Hydraulics pages has been successfully designed and developed by the Flight Simulation Group of FMCD. Further, simulation models for sensors and missile/weapon specific to AMCA have also been developed. This is the only flight simulator with model based design framework for AMCA that caters for the evaluation of avionics and flight controller design. In this frame work, the users can work within the same environment from the aircraft conceptual design to the flight simulation and controller design and implementation phase. Low cost visualization platform for pilot visual cues and pilot inputs can enhance rapid prototyping flight simulation systems in a cost effective manner. This is accomplished by closely coupling the simulation hardware to the code generation, simulation, and analysis capabilities of Simulink and Matlab. The visual database and rendering solution has been developed using open source software; Development of IOS software

AMCA Simulator is developed for carrying out study, design and evaluation of Pilot Vehicle Interface, Avionics, Flight controller design and aircraft sub-system design evaluation.



Features



Flight Dynamic Model Sub-system Model such as

Full envelope Flight controller Electrical System

Instructor operation station (IOS) Fuel system

Visual System – Terrain model Landing gear and nose wheel steering

Head up Display ECS, Engine

Missile Approach Warning Hydraulic Sub System model

System (MAWS) Target Aircraft and Weapon model







Specifications

Single Window Projection system with 50 deg x 40 deg FOV

Mock-up Cockpit with USB pilot controls



Techniques applied in this facility

• Simulation based virtual reality
  
  
• User Interface design using Visual C++ programming
  
  
• Aircraft system modeling and simulation
  
  
• Novel scheme for baseline Flight Controller Design
  
  
• Model based design

Major clients of this facility: ADA, Bangalore

AMCA air intake at NAL workshop

 

[Prashant12]

India working on developing an advanced medium combat aircraft

India is planning to launch a programme to develop a stealth fighter named Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), according to Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman.

In a written reply to a question in the Lok Sabha, she said the feasibility study for the programme has been already completed.

"The Indian Air Force suggested Aeronautical Development Agency of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to initiate AMCA technology demonstration phase before launching full scale engineering development," she said.

The state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has already developed a range of military choppers besides a Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) called Tejas.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...dium-combat-aircraft/articleshow/63617345.cms

 

[kunal1123]

So..... japan closed down it 5th gen. fighter plan .........................??
Three apart from India,China,Russia,and USA for 5th gen. one goes down. now left is Turkey and S.K(may be 5th gen)

thediplomat.com
Japan’s Scraps Domestic Development of 5th Generation Stealth Fighter Jet
Franz-Stefan Gady, The Diplomat
4 minutes
Japan is slated to discontinue the development of an indigenous stealth fighter jet.

Japan’s Ministry of Defense Acquisition Technology & Logistics Agency (ATLA) is expected to discontinue work on a domestically designed fifth-generation fighter jet due to budgetary concerns and critical capacity shortages in the country’s military aircraft industry, The Asahi Shimbun newspaper reports on March 5.

Japan’s Ministry of Defense will purportedly not seek funds for the development of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries’ experimental fifth-generation fighter technology demonstrator X-2 “Shinshin” (formerly the ATD-X) when requests by agencies and ministries are compiled this summer for the fiscal 2019 defense budget.

As of this writing, Japan’s MoD has not publicly commented on the March 5 report.

The X-2 prototype was intended to serve as the basis for the development of Japan’s first indigenously designed fifth-generation stealth fighter jet, designated the F-3. Japan is now expected to collaborate with the U.S. defense industry and other international partners to either jointly develop a next-generation stealth fighter jet or purchase jets directly from a foreign vendor.

The decision to scrap the program was not unexpected for Japan defense watchers. As I explained in July 2016, Japan had three options for procuring for the new aircraft: “First, develop an indigenous air superiority fighter. Second, partner with a foreign defense contractor and license-produce a new aircraft. Third, import or upgrade an existing platform.” The first option now appears to have been nixed.


Interestingly, U.S. defense firm Lockheed Martin has been involved with the F-3 program in some unknown capacity and is a possible candidate for a future collaborative partnership. The recent news that Japan is interested in procuring at least 20 additional ready-to-fly F-35A stealth fighter jets from Lockheed Martin could be a first sign of an emerging Japan-Lockheed Martin partnership in that regard.

“The follow-up order of 25 F-35As could perhaps be part of a Japanese strategy to convince Lockheed Martin and the U.S. government to share fifth-generation aircraft technology with Japan’s defense industry,” I speculated last month. “Japan now, in collaboration with Lockheed Martin and other international partners, could aim to build a (pricier) domestic variant of the F-22.”

Japan originally intended to procure Lockheed Martin’s F-22 Raptor, but the U.S. government refused an export license, forcing Japan to initiate its own stealth fighter jet program in the 2000s. The Japanese MoD plans to induct up to 100 fifth-generation fighter jets by the 2030s. A contract, estimated to be worth over $40 billion, was initially expected to be awarded this summer, but there has been no official progress report on the tender so far in 2018 and the decision will most likely be postponed.

According to various sources, the Japan Self-Defense Force (JSDF) is also interested in purchasing the F-35B – the U.S. Marine Corps variant of F-35 Joint Strike Fighter capable of vertical or short takeoffs and vertical landings without requiring a catapult launcher. JSDF would deploy the aircraft on Japanese islands skirting the East China Sea and aboard Izumo-class helicopter carriers, which will make the acquisition of such platforms a politically sensitive subject in Japan.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Japan now, in collaboration with Lockheed Martin and other international partners, could aim to build a (pricier) domestic variant of the F-22.”
can this be used as replacement for FGFA??????????????????????????

 

[Kshithij]

So..... japan closed down it 5th gen. fighter plan .........................??
Three apart from India,China,Russia,and USA for 5th gen. one goes down. now left is Turkey and S.K(may be 5th gen)

thediplomat.com
Japan’s Scraps Domestic Development of 5th Generation Stealth Fighter Jet
Franz-Stefan Gady, The Diplomat
4 minutes
Japan is slated to discontinue the development of an indigenous stealth fighter jet.

Japan’s Ministry of Defense Acquisition Technology & Logistics Agency (ATLA) is expected to discontinue work on a domestically designed fifth-generation fighter jet due to budgetary concerns and critical capacity shortages in the country’s military aircraft industry, The Asahi Shimbun newspaper reports on March 5.

Japan’s Ministry of Defense will purportedly not seek funds for the development of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries’ experimental fifth-generation fighter technology demonstrator X-2 “Shinshin” (formerly the ATD-X) when requests by agencies and ministries are compiled this summer for the fiscal 2019 defense budget.

As of this writing, Japan’s MoD has not publicly commented on the March 5 report.

The X-2 prototype was intended to serve as the basis for the development of Japan’s first indigenously designed fifth-generation stealth fighter jet, designated the F-3. Japan is now expected to collaborate with the U.S. defense industry and other international partners to either jointly develop a next-generation stealth fighter jet or purchase jets directly from a foreign vendor.

The decision to scrap the program was not unexpected for Japan defense watchers. As I explained in July 2016, Japan had three options for procuring for the new aircraft: “First, develop an indigenous air superiority fighter. Second, partner with a foreign defense contractor and license-produce a new aircraft. Third, import or upgrade an existing platform.” The first option now appears to have been nixed.


Interestingly, U.S. defense firm Lockheed Martin has been involved with the F-3 program in some unknown capacity and is a possible candidate for a future collaborative partnership. The recent news that Japan is interested in procuring at least 20 additional ready-to-fly F-35A stealth fighter jets from Lockheed Martin could be a first sign of an emerging Japan-Lockheed Martin partnership in that regard.

“The follow-up order of 25 F-35As could perhaps be part of a Japanese strategy to convince Lockheed Martin and the U.S. government to share fifth-generation aircraft technology with Japan’s defense industry,” I speculated last month. “Japan now, in collaboration with Lockheed Martin and other international partners, could aim to build a (pricier) domestic variant of the F-22.”

Japan originally intended to procure Lockheed Martin’s F-22 Raptor, but the U.S. government refused an export license, forcing Japan to initiate its own stealth fighter jet program in the 2000s. The Japanese MoD plans to induct up to 100 fifth-generation fighter jets by the 2030s. A contract, estimated to be worth over $40 billion, was initially expected to be awarded this summer, but there has been no official progress report on the tender so far in 2018 and the decision will most likely be postponed.

According to various sources, the Japan Self-Defense Force (JSDF) is also interested in purchasing the F-35B – the U.S. Marine Corps variant of F-35 Joint Strike Fighter capable of vertical or short takeoffs and vertical landings without requiring a catapult launcher. JSDF would deploy the aircraft on Japanese islands skirting the East China Sea and aboard Izumo-class helicopter carriers, which will make the acquisition of such platforms a politically sensitive subject in Japan.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Japan now, in collaboration with Lockheed Martin and other international partners, could aim to build a (pricier) domestic variant of the F-22.”
can this be used as replacement for FGFA??????????????????????????

Japan is a vassal state of USA. USA ordered it to stop 5th generation plane and Japanese did cancel. South Korea is also occupied by USA and it is also unlikely to go ahead with 5th generation plane. At least, the engine will be imported.

Turkey is trying to make a 5th generation plane but it does not have experience in making even 3rd generation plane. Lot of trial and error has to be done while designing planes. Especially the avionics part is the hardest. Turkey is unlikely to make a 5th generation plane. At most, it may end up making a 4th generation one with long tike periods of development. Turkey also does not have engine manufacturing experience. It will delay the plane even further.

India by the way had manufactured MiG21 Bison including RD25 engines inhouse. It is false to say that India made Tejas frok scratch. India had got plenty of help and technology transfers from USSR which had created an infrastructure for plane manufacturing

 

[mayfair]

India by the way had manufactured MiG21 Bison including RD25 engines inhouse. It is false to say that India made Tejas frok scratch. India had got plenty of help and technology transfers from USSR which had created an infrastructure for plane manufacturing

India license manufactured Mig21 and the RD25 engines. Big difference. Most of this involved screwdrivergiri of components and kits imported from USSR. Soviets and the Russians never shared the critical tech with us, they were not foolish enough to do so.

Even now we manufacture AL-31 engines for Su30. Yet we cannot use that expertise to see Kaveri over the line.

Tejas was indeed planned and done from ground up. Especially, since we had lost the expertise of the Marut iteam.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Designing a turbofan engine is not easy, even if we keep on license manufacturing any other established engine. Design is more important and any inherent flaw in design can cause problems which will again need to return in the drawing board. Don't compare production of engine with the design, certification, qualification, validation of a gas turbine from scratch.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[Steven Rogers]

Designing a turbofan engine is not easy, even if we keep on license manufacturing any other established engine. Design is more important and any inherent flaw in design can cause problems which will again need to return in the drawing board. Don't compare production of engine with the design, certification, qualification, validation of a gas turbine from scratch.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[sthf]

can this be used as replacement for FGFA??????????????????????????

A plane that doesnt even exist on paper and won't be operational for atleast two decades against PAKFA which will be fully operational in the next 5-8 years.

I don't see how is that going to happen.

Hell, AMCA is in a more advanced position.

 

[Kshithij]

India license manufactured Mig21 and the RD25 engines. Big difference. Most of this involved screwdrivergiri of components and kits imported from USSR. Soviets and the Russians never shared the critical tech with us, they were not foolish enough to do so.

Even now we manufacture AL-31 engines for Su30. Yet we cannot use that expertise to see Kaveri over the line.

Tejas was indeed planned and done from ground up. Especially, since we had lost the expertise of the Marut iteam.

The Al31F manufacturing experience is not sufficient for India to design a new engine. Design is a completely different aspect. It involves very complicated procedure to make the entire engine work in full coordination. The major problem of engine is not alloy as many people claim here but the ability to make te entire engine work in perfect synchrony.

AL31FP is made in India with a preset specifications provided by Russia. There is nothing new that India has to make other than manufacturing the parts exactly as per dimensions specified. This process will.not help in designing a new engine. For that matter, India also manufactured RD25, R29B earlier. As of now, India makes RD33 and AL31F engines for MiG29 and Su30 respectively.

Also another problem is that AL31F is not a modern engine. It is an older generation engine with TET of 1690K. Modern engine like F404 needs TET of 1720K (F404 has no rhenium). With some advance in cooling, the TET can be raised to 1750K and a better engine will be obtained. So, even here, technology is not upto the mark

 

[Kshithij]

A plane that doesnt even exist on paper and won't be operational for atleast two decades against PAKFA which will be fully operational in the next 5-8 years.

I don't see how is that going to happen.

Hell, AMCA is in a more advanced position.

Which does not exist on paper? Are you sure of that? As far as I see, the plane design also has been finalized. The technology development of Tejas MK2 and AMCA is happening in parallel and both are likely to get advanced avionics, sensor suite. So, unless you come out of your cave and accept that AMCA is not an independent project but a sister project of LCA, you will not be able to appreciate the reality.

By the way, PAK-FA is already flying with IOC and will be inducted next year. It does not require 8-10 years more.

 

[Pulkit]

Which does not exist on paper? Are you sure of that? As far as I see, the plane design also has been finalized.

Are you sure about this. I have not come across any source that claims that the design has been finalized. I will say it does exist on paper but nothing has been finalized. Engine and avionics to start with are not yet decided.

The technology development of Tejas MK2 and AMCA is happening in parallel and both are likely to get advanced avionics, sensor suite. So, unless you come out of your cave and accept that AMCA is not an independent project but a sister project of LCA, you will not be able to appreciate the reality.

I will agree to treating both as sister projects but at the same point they are planning to pitch Tejas MK2 as AMCA. but again the reality is both projects cannot be sustained parally and might get merged as one....

By the way, PAK-FA is already flying with IOC and will be inducted next year. It does not require 8-10 years more.

Pak-FA is yet to incoorporate any changes required by India and has not been tested even once by any Indian Pilot. so even if we place order today it will take 3-4 years to get them inducted in IAF
Therefore time line of 8-10 years does not appears unrealistic.

 

[Kshithij]

Are you sure about this. I have not come across any source that claims that the design has been finalized. I will say it does exist on paper but nothing has been finalized. Engine and avionics to start with are not yet decided. I will agree to treating both as sister projects but at the same point they are planning to pitch Tejas MK2 as AMCA. but again the reality is both projects cannot be sustained parally and might get merged as one....

Pak-FA is yet to incoorporate any changes required by India and has not been tested even once by any Indian Pilot. so even if we place order today it will take 3-4 years to get them inducted in IAF
Therefore time line of 8-10 years does not appears unrealistic.

I am not saying that Tejas MK2 is AMCA. AMCA is 5th generation plane and its design has been finalised. Saurav Jha had tweeted that fuselage has been delivered for prototype. Tejas MK2 is a single engine fighter which does not have stealth design

By Pak-FA, I meant Russian Su57, not the Indian Pak-Fa. Russian version is already flying. I am not sure if India will buy it as India wants full ToT for manufacturing at its will. Russia is unwilling to give ToT for a 5th generation plane. Russia will give ToT for lower generation planes like Su35/MiG35 but not for Su57.

 

[kunal1123]

...............................................................................................................................

 

[Pulkit]

I am not saying that Tejas MK2 is AMCA. AMCA is 5th generation plane and its design has been finalised. Saurav Jha had tweeted that fuselage has been delivered for prototype. Tejas MK2 is a single engine fighter which does not have stealth design

By Pak-FA, I meant Russian Su57, not the Indian Pak-Fa. Russian version is already flying. I am not sure if India will buy it as India wants full ToT for manufacturing at its will. Russia is unwilling to give ToT for a 5th generation plane. Russia will give ToT for lower generation planes like Su35/MiG35 but not for Su57.

Just refering to one of the articles I read in regard to Mk2
http://idrw.org/tejas-mk2-india-sticks-with-its-local-fighter-jet/

if this is true then I can fairly assume design is yet to freeze.

I donot think IAF Agree to Russian version.