AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Vijyes]

We shouldn BUY anything. Ever heard of R&D? Other countries do that.

That is true. But, ToT to save time is also a valid option. If we can get technology, why waste extra time to research on it? It is better to catch up with others by copying and once caught up, do ingenious research and development

 

[airtel]

We shouldn BUY anything. Ever heard of R&D? Other countries do that.

No need to reinvent the wheel

no need to invest in already developed technologies if we can get them from foreign countries that will save our Time .......otherwise our weapons will be Obsolete at the Time of Induction .
we should invest our resources on Research & development of future technologies .

 

[Armand2REP]

I read somewhere that russians prposed stealth jet is not stealthier than rafale

Ajai Shukla reported years ago that the PAK FA RCS was 0.5m^2. The RCS of Rafale is 0.3m^2 but since it doesn't have internal bays they would be closer to equal in the frontal arc. Rafale has lower RCS from top down as part of its low level penetration design.

 

[Armand2REP]

People here are commenting as if we are gonna buy the jet from Russia lol. People seem to forget its supposed to be a Joint developement based on the PAK FA prototype .
India's target is getting more workshare for HAL, the best possible ToT and according to the last known understanding, FGFA could be exported too, with 50-50 share in profits.

It is far too late for joint development. Russia wants you to pay $6.7 billion just to have the privilege to buy a $135 million aircraft.

 

[airtel]

It is far too late for joint development. Russia wants you to pay $6.7 billion just to have the privilege to buy a $135 million aircraft.

6.7 billion$ is cost of Entire Project & India will pay half of It .

It is still not a Bad deal if we are Getting Critical Technologies .

First of all let them develop a New engine .

 

[sthf]

Ajai Shukla reported years ago that the PAK FA RCS was 0.5m^2. The RCS of Rafale is 0.3m^2 but since it doesn't have internal bays they would be closer to equal in the frontal arc. Rafale has lower RCS from top down as part of its low level penetration design.

Different methods of RCS calculation. When Russians say PAKFA's RCS is 0.5sqm they also say that F-22's RCS is 0.1sqm.

Ajay Shukla is a political jackass. Nothing he says or does hold much water.

 

[SELVAM]

6.7 billion$ is cost of Entire Project & India will pay half of It .

It is still not a Bad deal if we are Getting Critical Technologies .

First of all let them develop a New engine .

Lol read the article, they demand 6 billion usd for just 4 prototypes

 

[Armand2REP]

6.7 billion$ is cost of Entire Project & India will pay half of It .

It is still not a Bad deal if we are Getting Critical Technologies .

First of all let them develop a New engine .

What critical technologies did India get with MKI? For years people went on about getting SCB ToT but in a huge scandal it never came. It turned out to be knock down kits sent to HAL to screwdriver together. India pays 70 crore more per aircraft than if they just imported it from Russia. Getting Su-57 will be no different. Russia can't even transfer basic tank technology. In the mean time French offsets are going to fix stalled critical programmes that are necessary for domestic fighter production.

 

[Armand2REP]

Different methods of RCS calculation. When Russians say PAKFA's RCS is 0.5sqm they also say that F-22's RCS is 0.1sqm.

Ajay Shukla is a political jackass. Nothing he says or does hold much water.

Regardless of what you think of him, he was reporting what Russian officials said. He did not pull the number out of his ass.

 

[airtel]

Lol read the article, they demand 6 billion usd for just 4 prototypes

what is the source of This Information ?? some unknown official ??
without any official press release I can not believe it .................there are hundreds of paid article on internet .

let them officially sign or reject the deal .

 

[airtel]

What critical technologies did India get with MKI? For years people went on about getting SCB ToT but in a huge scandal it never came. It turned out to be knock down kits sent to HAL to screwdriver together. India pays 70 crore more per aircraft than if they just imported it from Russia. Getting Su-57 will be no different. Russia can't even transfer basic tank technology. In the mean time French offsets are going to fix stalled critical programmes that are necessary for domestic fighter production.

they signed the deal with France after decades of negotiation & testing ..............still reduced the order because they could not get all the desired technologies .

And before negotiation let Russia properly develop it ...........and then India will test it's capabilities and then they will negotiate the price and transfer of technologies .

 

[sthf]

Regardless of what you think of him, he was reporting what Russian officials said. He did not pull the number out of his ass.

No he didn't pull the number out of his ass but he conveniently forgot to put it into the context that Russians measure RCS differently than West.

But now that I have offered the context will you or anybody else stick to his/her conviction that Rafale can infact replace PAKFA as a future air superiority platform for IAF.

 

[Armand2REP]

they signed the deal with France after decades of negotiation & testing ..............still reduced the order because they could not get all the desired technologies .

And before negotiation let Russia properly develop it ...........and then India will test it's capabilities and then they will negotiate the price and transfer of technologies .

Just handing you technology is only of temporary use if you do not understand how the results were reached. It is about creating a culture of excellence in research and development so India can run on her own. France actually trains people in how to become good researchers when they work on projects and help develop best practices and guidelines in the JVs we set up. Thales South Korea is a shining example of this cooperation that has aided them in becoming a major player in the global arms industry. Such tie ups could take India much further. The one thing required is the state keeping their nose out of it which is why we require private industry partnerships if we are going to guarantee the quality of product. We do not need something like OFB screwing it up.

 

[Armand2REP]

No he didn't pull the number out of his ass but he conveniently forgot to put it into the context that Russians measure RCS differently than West.

But now that I have offered the context will you or anybody else stick to his/her conviction that Rafale can infact replace PAKFA as a future air superiority platform for IAF.

A stated measure of RCS is from the frontal aspect, I believe Russia uses the same metric.

 

[airtel]

Thales South Korea is a shining example of this cooperation that has aided them in becoming a major player in the global arms industry. Such tie ups could take India much further. .

Thales should Korea ?

what they have developed ? all of their products are developed in France and Korea can not anything without Your Help .

Safran is involved in Kaveri Engine Development ??

Will You share Your Core technology ?? No .

France will make a new Engine with 60% Kaveri Technologies and 40% M88 technologies ................but You will not share know How , Know why .

 

[Pandora]

Just don't bring Ajay shukla ,he is simply a lockheeds cock sucker....

 

[Armand2REP]

Thales should Korea ?

what they have developed ? all of their products are developed in France and Korea can not anything without Your Help .

Safran is involved in Kaveri Engine Development ??

Will You share Your Core technology ?? No .

France will make a new Engine with 60% Kaveri Technologies and 40% M88 technologies ................but You will not share know How , Know why .

Thales has helped ROK develop satellites, aircraft subsystems, radars, data networks and did so by training military research bodies to conduct best practices in their fields. Now the JV has been sold and 100% ownership belongs to South Korea.

What is the point of giving you core technology if you do not have the processes or training to master it? We form JVs that go on to become the leading defence companies of the nations we partner with. Thales UK, Thales Nederlands, Thales Australia are all some of the biggest defence companies in these nations. We make our money but we leave something of value, a legacy of excellence. What does Russia leave... screws?

 

[sthf]

@Armand2REP

No they don't and that is exactly the point. Ajay Shukla wrote some BS and that exact same BS is repeated ad nauseum by numerous other sources, taking it as a gospel. I repeat, PAKFA in its current configuration has a RCS of 0.5sqm in the same way that F-22 has a RCS of 0.1sqm.

Russians issued a rebuttal but they couldn't match the rhetoric of the post Cold War America. I'll try to look it up.

Americans who were clutching their pearls during the entirety of the 4 decades long Cold War came to the conclusion that they would have wiped the floor with Soviets. This bravado originated from the fact that they are never going to meet Russians in a battle.

 

[IndianHawk]

No amount value can be fixed for any development because it is a continuous process. And no development is bound to any specific project because the experience gain in present development can be used in future developments.

Certainly . But that's not how projects works. You have to estimate cost over the program timeframe and you have to allocate budget in line with estimation.

We don't have unlimited resources.
Once at designing stage you have an idea as to what technologies are to be incorporated , how many are available and how many to be developed and at what cost. The amount might not be absolute but it has to be in the ballpark.

If at that this stage we don't know how much Amca will cost in general (not specific) that simply means we are nowhere close to developing it.!!!

 

[IndianHawk]

Russians issued a rebuttal but they couldn't match the rhetoric of the post Cold War America. I'll try to look it up.

Post cold war America leaped ahead of Russia . Forget about rcs. The fact is that russian Don't have a silent stealth engine. Perhaps they will get one by the end of year but it will still be required to fly with su57 prototype for 2 years before we can say with clarity as to how stealth it actually is.

Meanwhile USA is already shipping f35 to allied nations. It is the Russian that are relying on rhetoric not the American.

Anyway we already spent 300 million for this and yet we don't have access to even a prototype of su57??? We could have bought 2 f35 for that money to touch and feel and abuse

The point is Russian are being shady about it . IAF has been doubting the stealth of PAKFA for a long time now. Hopefully it will improve but when?? That is why we must wait for 2-3 years until things become clear. By some su57 off the shelf and see if they are truly stealth only then move forward with FGFA . Otherwise it will be a repeat of mig29k where after paying for development and buying we found out it's not really fit for carrier operations and needs further strengthening of frame