AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

kunal1123

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and just for info. it is not the max thrust that define super cruise it is max dry thrust .. any thing above 68-70kn dry thrust will easily make amca super cruise..(t/w ratio compare to Rafael )


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mayfair

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AMCA is an ambitious and daring programme. I am glad to see that they have toned down some unrealistic expectations or atleast put them in non-essential category, especially with regards to stealth and supercruise. Learn to walk before we fly.

The success of this programme is vital.
 

IndianHawk

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AMCA is an ambitious and daring programme. I am glad to see that they have toned down some unrealistic expectations or atleast put them in non-essential category, especially with regards to stealth and supercruise. Learn to walk before we fly.

The success of this programme is vital.
It is important that they learn from LCA mistake. Get the plane in the air in the most basic configuration with off the shelf engine etc.

Then improve iteratively.
 

kunal1123

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AMCA is an ambitious and daring programme. I am glad to see that they have toned down some unrealistic expectations or atleast put them in non-essential category, especially with regards to stealth and supercruise. Learn to walk before we fly.

The success of this programme is vital.
It is important that they learn from LCA mistake. Get the plane in the air in the most basic configuration with off the shelf engine etc.

Then improve iteratively.

that is all just speculation until any official news . the basic aim to uplift MCA to AMCA is stealth and supercruise.
( then iaf said that they will not induct any new aircraft without supercruise if i recall correctly )
 

airtel

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that is all just speculation until any official news . the basic aim to uplift MCA to AMCA is stealth and supercruise.
( then iaf said that they will not induct any new aircraft without supercruise if i recall correctly )
They are developing 125 Kn Engine with France that can provide the desired performance ........it will take few years to develop that Engine .

but for Initial testing they can use American GE 414 .......just like Russia is using older
AL-41F1 engines for testing but they will replace it with new Izdeliye 30 Engines in the final product .
 

Vijyes

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They are developing 125 Kn Engine with France that can provide the desired performance ........it will take few years to develop that Engine .

but for Initial testing they can use American GE 414 .......just like Russia is using older
AL-41F1 engines for testing but they will replace it with new Izdeliye 30 Engines in the final product .
French will not give engine just like that. India will have to invest heavily. I don't understand what kind of logic India is using in Kaveri engine development. Why not invest heavily by a rapid construction of testing facility and hiring heavily to split up work and hence build experience much more quickly? If Modi doesn't do it who else will?

Even if Supercruise is needed, Rafale can supercruise with 19ton (fuel 4 ton + weapons 4 ton + aircraft 11ton) weight using 50kN dry and 75kN wet thrust engine. Why can't AMCA supercruise with 53/85kN twin engines? If we are speaking of unstealthy one with external weapons hardpoints and fuel pod, then 60/90kN should be enough. Supercruise means speed of 1225kmph at sea level at room temperature. But as height increases the speed of sound decreases. At 30000ft, 1mach is 1090kmph. So, a plane that can go at a speed of 1100kmph at high altitude is said to be supercruising.

This supercruise can't be used for bombing missions as that would require maneuverability and careful targeting. I don't really see a need to have 1.5mach or 2mach cruise speeds. AFAIK, cruise speed of 1.1 mach is more than enough. So, asking for 120kN engines etc is meaningless. Moreover, it is the dry thrust that is responsible for supercruise,which is generally 2/3rd of maximum wet thrust. 80kN dry thrust is really not needed. It is only a good to have. 60-65kN dry thrust would be enough for even the non stealth AMCA supercruise
 

airtel

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French will not give engine just like that.
They will .........

Kaveri is a variable cycle jet Engine ...........France will get this technology from India and we will get other technologies from France .
so we are just exchanging our technologies .
they will not sell their technologies just for money .

Even if Supercruise is needed, Rafale can supercruise with 19ton (fuel 4 ton + weapons 4 ton + aircraft 11ton) weight using 50kN dry and 75kN wet thrust engine. Why can't AMCA supercruise with 53/85kN twin engines?
because stealth aircrafts with Internal weapon bays are less aerodynamic and require more efficient Engines to achieve similar performance .
 
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lcafanboy

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They will .........

Kaveri is a variable cycle jet Engine ...........France will get this technology from India and we will get other technologies from France .
so we are just exchanging our technologies .
they will not sell their technologies just for money .
You forgot the MII Rafale deal with approximately 200-250 Fighters that India will buy. Plus Safran is setting up shop in Goa which will be making parts for the above engines... So the lollipop is too big for French.
 

airtel

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You forgot the MII Rafale deal with approximately 200-250 Fighters that India will buy. Plus Safran is setting up shop in Goa which will be making parts for the above engines... So the lollipop is too big for French.
i dont think India will buy 250 Rafales ...............Most probably that Nagpur plant is for AMCA / Pak-fa or AURA .

with Dassault Aviation we are going to start civilian Aircraft manufacturing in India those also require engines and other parts ?
most of the Indian helicopters use french engines ...........so all those plants can be for other Aircraft too .
 
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tharun

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French will not give engine just like that
No one gives anything just like that there will always be quid-pro-quo.

Even if Supercruise is needed, Rafale can supercruise with 19ton (fuel 4 ton + weapons 4 ton + aircraft 11ton) weight using 50kN dry and 75kN wet thrust engine. Why can't AMCA supercruise with 53/85kN twin engines?
Rafale is not fifth generation,it uses afterburner to supercruise.
For fifth generation stealth mean thermal too so we need engine that can deliver enough power without supercruise.
 

TPFscopes

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Rafale is not fifth generation,it uses afterburner to supercruise.
For fifth generation stealth mean thermal too so we need engine that can deliver enough power without supercruise
Will you please elaborate it for me
 

TPFscopes

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i dont think India will buy 250 Rafales ...............Most probably that Nagpur plant is for AMCA / Pak-fa or AURA .
Su-30MKI Production lines will be used for churning out FGFA whereas LCA production lines will be used for churning out AMCA.
Donnie about AURA/GHATAK.
with Dassault Aviation we are going to start civilian Aircraft manufacturing in India those also require engines and other parts ?
most of the Indian helicopters use french engines ...........so all those plants can be for other Aircraft too .
No information about civilian aircrafts manufacturing in India.
Also there is no commercial airliner manufactured by Dassault.
The biggest Dassault's civilian aircraft is Falcon 2000 which do not have much scope in India.
 

TPFscopes

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and just for info. it is not the max thrust that define super cruise it is max dry thrust .. any thing above 68-70kn dry thrust will easily make amca super cruise..(t/w ratio compare to Rafael )


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When a jet can sustain a supersonic speed for a longer duration without using reheat/afterburner, or with using minimum fuel consumption than it is said to be supercruise.
Fifth generation jets loose their aerodynamic structure to attain their stealth which increases drag. So that is why, an aerodynamic structure use less thurst to attain a definite speed in Comparison to fífth generation jet.
 

kunal1123

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When a jet can sustain a supersonic speed for a longer duration without using reheat/afterburner, or with using minimum fuel consumption than it is said to be supercruise.
Fifth generation jets loose their aerodynamic structure to attain their stealth which increases drag. So that is why, an aerodynamic structure use less thurst to attain a definite speed in Comparison to fífth generation jet.
yaa i have taken that account . compare to Rafael/EF any thing above 63+ will make AMCA super-cruise acc. to it weight but to take account of 5th gen structure that why 10% increase in dry thrust (68-70)
 
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