AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[sayareakd]

If you want on the top of the game, lot of money need to be spend on R&D. So if two designs exists, its good idea. Even for F35, they had two designs , initially.

 

[kunal1123]

Incorrect,
F-22, J-20, T-50 and PAK FA etc. are heavier crafts for air superiority roles while F-35, J-31, LMFS, AMCA, Shinshin, KFX & TFX etc. are for medium roles.

PAK FA is going in limbo, that's why there was a third stealth fighter.
But trust me, it won't be medium.

well you misunderstood me i am taking about AMCA1 & AMCA 2 AS THEY WILL BE OF SAME CLASS. WHY HAVE TWO DIFFERENT VERSION.

PAK-FA IS NOT IN LIMBO IT IS FGFA THAT IS IN LIMBO AS HE SAY THIS IS CONSOLATION FOR DIRECT BUY OF PAK-FA SO IMHO WHY SPEND R&D MONEY FOR TWO AMCA AND BUY PAK-FA RATHER SPEND ALL R&D MONEY OF OUR AMCA AND BUY PAK-FA (IN MORE NUMBER ) AS IT IS DIFFERENT CLASS WITH SAME ENGINE (CLASS) AS AMCA-2

 

[Mikesingh]

I have just heard from one insider that there could be 2 AMCA in making AMCA 1 the above one with EJ 230 engines with western avionics and AMCA 2 which is Russian design based on flanker and Pak-fa with Russian S117 engines and Russian design & Avionics which would be significantly smaller than PAK-FA. This has been offered by Russians as a Quid Pro Quo for buying Su Pak-Fa and govt has accepted it.

Can someone confirm this? Don't take this as fake as this insider is very close to govt.

@roma @ersakthivel @Kshatriya87 @Mikesingh @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Indx TechStyle

After losing narrowly to Ge’s F414 engines to power Tejas MK-2 aircrafts, Eurojet Company has offered the Ej-200 engines to power the AMCA. EJ200 engines also power Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets.

To meet AMCA requirements Eurojet also has a second offer which will be to increase output by 30% above the baseline specification, but such an upgrade will require more substantial plant-wide changes including a new LP compressor and turbine and an improvement in the total pressure ratio and Indian order commitment for development to take place. These engines will have a reheated output of around 120kN (or 27,000lbf).

Euro jet had successfully demonstrated Thrust Vectoring Control technology when their first 3D TVC equipped EJ200 underwent rig trials in July 1998. EJ is keen to offer their own TVC technology to power the AMCA.

So let's wait and see how things unfold.

 

[sayareakd]

I always think if we have airframe ready we should test that with existing engines, even with stealth bomber, we could use teo kaveri engines on wing design as we dont want to go supersonic with that.

Keep putting ideas into reality, if it work fine, refined it and put to production. More money you put in R&D more aheard will you be in tech.

 

[lcafanboy]

After losing narrowly to Ge’s F414 engines to power Tejas MK-2 aircrafts, Eurojet Company has offered the Ej-200 engines to power the AMCA. EJ200 engines also power Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets.

To meet AMCA requirements Eurojet also has a second offer which will be to increase output by 30% above the baseline specification, but such an upgrade will require more substantial plant-wide changes including a new LP compressor and turbine and an improvement in the total pressure ratio and Indian order commitment for development to take place. These engines will have a reheated output of around 120kN (or 27,000lbf).

Euro jet had successfully demonstrated Thrust Vectoring Control technology when their first 3D TVC equipped EJ200 underwent rig trials in July 1998. EJ is keen to offer their own TVC technology to power the AMCA.

So let's wait and see how things unfold.

AMCA 1 will have either of these engines (EJ230, KAVERI SNECMA, or GE414EPE) depending on how much technology that country and company are ready to transfer.

For AMCA 2 Russians first offered design based on MIG 25 Foxbat Stealth but was rejected by DM Parrikar and then again they made offer based on flanker and PAKFA which has been accepted. This version is designed especially for sheer speed and interceptor requirements (hence earlier version was based on MIG25).

I am told that this is being pursued as we do not have requisite technologies to build 5th gen fighter. Actually we do not have MIC which can deliver even 4th gen technologies completely. We have made FBW, some avionics but we lack Advanced GaN Aesa Radars, Active Cancellation based advanced EW, Advanced composites (we do have composites but newer composites have come up which are better in RAM quality), etc. Let's see what the final outcome is.

 

[kunal1123]

AMCA 1 will have either of these engines (EJ230, KAVERI SNECMA, or GE414EPE) depending on how much technology that country and company are ready to transfer.

For AMCA 2 Russians first offered design based on MIG 25 Foxbat Stealth but was rejected by DM Parrikar and then again they made offer based on flanker and PAKFA which has been accepted. This version is designed especially for sheer speed and interceptor requirements (hence earlier version was based on MIG25).

I am told that this is being pursued as we do not have requisite technologies to build 5th gen fighter. Actually we do not have MIC which can deliver even 4th gen technologies completely. We have made FBW, some avionics but we lack Advanced GaN Aesa Radars, Active Cancellation based advanced EW, Advanced composites (we do have composites but newer composites have come up which are better in RAM quality), etc. Let's see what the final outcome is.

well i am not completely agree with u we have the technology and it is delevring but in slow speed(very slow if i say)
an as for aesa ,ew we have our own and i have read news about it recently as as for composite i think we are working on it .(for rest of internal component i think we have fairly enough of our own thank to lca and have enough industry to take further research )
IMHO it will be foolish for India to go with Russia for amca class category as we know that UAE working with Russia for same type with MIG. now India with SU mean Russia is making sure that both of there cooperation will have a medium class 5th gen aircraft for export . why they will allow our own amca to see day light which will be direct competition for there both plane.

and if getting technology the i say go for Rafael with production line(as it will cost same as amca-2 with India providing for R&D)
and the basics for FGFA is to replicate the bromose in fighter, so if you are not doing any research and directly buying from Russian then why to spend money in AMCA-2 . BUY HIGH NO. FGFA DIRECTLY WITH TOT AND DO FURTHER RESEARCH ON THAT TOT TO BYPASS THE RESTRICTION AND SPEND REST AMOUNT IN IN HOUSE R&D)

 

[Superdefender]

Are AMCA-1 and AMCA-2 for different purposes - one for air superiority and other for ground attack?

 

[Tarun Kumar]

It seems Russians have finally compromised.In return for purchasing 60-70 PAKFA, india will get some tech for 5th gen aircraft and AMCA 1 wll be PAKFA+. I say a very good deal. So this means no more Su30mki and 50-60PAKFA for India for 6 billion USD . Man the US sanctions on Russia are really turning into a boon for us.

 

[WolfPack86]

It seems Russians have finally compromised.In return for purchasing 60-70 PAKFA, india will get some tech for 5th gen aircraft and AMCA 1 wll be PAKFA+. I say a very good deal. So this means no more Su30mki and 50-60PAKFA for India for 6 billion USD . Man the US sanctions on Russia are really turning into a boon for us.

When PM Modi visit Russia in june 1st 2017 Pak fa fighter deal will be inked?

 

[Dark Lord]

AMCA 1 will have either of these engines (EJ230, KAVERI SNECMA, or GE414EPE) depending on how much technology that country and company are ready to transfer.

For AMCA 2 Russians first offered design based on MIG 25 Foxbat Stealth but was rejected by DM Parrikar and then again they made offer based on flanker and PAKFA which has been accepted. This version is designed especially for sheer speed and interceptor requirements (hence earlier version was based on MIG25).

I am told that this is being pursued as we do not have requisite technologies to build 5th gen fighter. Actually we do not have MIC which can deliver even 4th gen technologies completely. We have made FBW, some avionics but we lack Advanced GaN Aesa Radars, Active Cancellation based advanced EW, Advanced composites (we do have composites but newer composites have come up which are better in RAM quality), etc. Let's see what the final outcome is.

So AMCA 1 will have western engines and AMCA 2 will be a full Russian product.

 

[roma]

It seems Russians have finally compromised.In return for purchasing 60-70 PAKFA, india will get some tech for ........... Man the US sanctions on Russia are really turning into a boon for us.

well done India !!

this is it ! the way to go ...ultimately again no big revelation that it's the economy

we need keep going on the road of econ development for our people and it will bring in the rest .....

 

[scatterStorm]

I have just heard from one insider that there could be 2 AMCA in making AMCA 1 the above one with EJ 230 engines with western avionics and AMCA 2 which is Russian design based on flanker and Pak-fa with Russian S117 engines and Russian design & Avionics which would be significantly smaller than PAK-FA. This has been offered by Russians as a Quid Pro Quo for buying Su Pak-Fa and govt has accepted it.

Can someone confirm this? Don't take this as fake as this insider is very close to govt.

@roma @ersakthivel @Kshatriya87 @Mikesingh @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Indx TechStyle

S117 or Al31 has many derivatives, which one is especially being thought of for our AMCA. I hope it's the new one which is being powered for there SU50s, because they aren't sharing the ToT anyways, so why not negotiate for the new engines.

 

[kunal1123]

It seems Russians have finally compromised.In return for purchasing 60-70 PAKFA, india will get some tech for 5th gen aircraft and AMCA 1 wll be PAKFA+. I say a very good deal. So this means no more Su30mki and 50-60PAKFA for India for 6 billion USD . Man the US sanctions on Russia are really turning into a boon for us.

well it is better than split amca in two fighter, get initial batch of 100 pak-fa with quite a tot and local make like su-30 mki and use tot to further developed and use it in our amca.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

So Russians will make us pay for PAKFA without TOT and then take more money to develop a smaller aircraft to knock out AMCA. And we were foolish enough to accept This?

 

[akk]

so many speculations......total confusion.
Can somebody please list the confirmed status of following projects?
1. lca sp 4, 5, 6
2. Lca mk1a
3. lca mk2
4. amca
5. fgfa
6. pakfa....If india is going for it
7. kaveri and other jet engines.

no speculations please. I think there is already too much confusion.
many thanks.

 

[A chauhan]

So Russians will make us pay for PAKFA without TOT and then take more money to develop a smaller aircraft to knock out AMCA. And we were foolish enough to accept This?

Caught it !! ...
30 cha.............................

 

[wuzetian]

AMCA 1 will have either of these engines (EJ230, KAVERI SNECMA, or GE414EPE) depending on how much technology that country and company are ready to transfer.

For AMCA 2 Russians first offered design based on MIG 25 Foxbat Stealth but was rejected by DM Parrikar and then again they made offer based on flanker and PAKFA which has been accepted. This version is designed especially for sheer speed and interceptor requirements (hence earlier version was based on MIG25).

I am told that this is being pursued as we do not have requisite technologies to build 5th gen fighter. Actually we do not have MIC which can deliver even 4th gen technologies completely. We have made FBW, some avionics but we lack Advanced GaN Aesa Radars, Active Cancellation based advanced EW, Advanced composites (we do have composites but newer composites have come up which are better in RAM quality), etc. Let's see what the final outcome is.

AMCA has sepertine air intakes on two sides of the fuselage like LCA but flankers have air intake below the fuselage . So how can AMCA be based on two very different design philosophies ? AMCA 1 and 2 as it is being mentioned will look very different if one is based on flanker . I don't know other than design what elements it will have from the flanker when you say AMCA 2 will be based on flanker . Am I missing something? Kindly help me out here .

Anyway it sounds like a bad deal .

Ideally What I would have loved was single engine LCA , then double engined MCA , then only stealth double engined AMCA .

But since the Chinese and others have already made stealth aircraft we can't wait for MCA, so jumping to AMCA is pragmatic provided the necessary funds and technology is available .

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Is their any mention of AMCA-2 via official portal .. ?

 

[wuzetian]

Is their any mention of AMCA-2 via official portal .. ?

Haven't heard about it till now

 

[scatterStorm]

AMCA has sepertine air intakes on two sides of the fuselage like LCA but flankers have air intake below the fuselage . So how can AMCA be based on two very different design philosophies ? AMCA 1 and 2 as it is being mentioned will look very different if one is based on flanker . I don't know other than design what elements it will have from the flanker when you say AMCA 2 will be based on flanker . Am I missing something? Kindly help me out here .

Anyway it sounds like a bad deal .

Ideally What I would have loved was single engine LCA , then double engined MCA , then only stealth double engined AMCA .

But since the Chinese and others have already made stealth aircraft we can't wait for MCA, so jumping to AMCA is pragmatic provided the necessary funds and technology is available .

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

I would restrain myself from assuming two prototypes of different airframe design and engine class, because of a very simple reason.. It isn't official, and since we've months to go before a 1:1 scale model is WT tested.

Although hypothetically, it could be possible to have two different fighters of same weight and engine class of AMCA origin, because Western tech do what we call in science A/B Testing.

What is A/B testing? Simply put, you create two models and let them compete with each other, the winner takes it all. However western practices tweaks this sort of testing to squeeze best of both worlds.

Take an example of the AFP(Advanced fighter program) project started by USAF where two proposal came in:

One by Lockheed Martin and the other by Northrop, with YF22 and YF23 as the result of AB testing models. They competed each other, and the winner Lockheed took it all. However, looser would still be getting work and would also share key tech used in there prototype.

Nevertheless, it could be possible that two different designs be possible for our AMCA, say AMCA 1 and 2, they would compete and winner would take it all, but if our scientist were smart they would take best of both worlds to produce a fighter much capable and sought for.

But this is just speculations and should remain so, I highly doubt we even have such budget for A/B testing. Now all we could do is wait for the official news.