AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

sayareakd

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We should have tested basic 5g frame with what ever tech we have developed and whats learn for LCA, later on all the things should have been substituted.

Its stupid idea to have all the tech ready first and then make it.

We will fell behind with this approch.

EVEN CHINI DID THIS.

its not as if we have to go for war next day. R&D is continuing work, we need to work and make practical fighter out of it. Not hifi 5g fighter with price of 4g fighter. As our AF always demand :crazy:
 

sayareakd

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With 3D printing they can make flying prototype with ease, drdo and HAL looks like very low on confidence. I am horified after seeing time line. We need to have mix of old and new top brains, or else we better drop it. No poi t i dragging it for 25-30 years.

You have learn from LCA, move forward fast.
 

chandrak

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The government has changed but the people working at ADA & HAL are still the same.
2019 for AMCAs first prototype is next to impossible. Unless, Parrikar is personally breathing down their necks to highlight AMCA as his own achievement for 2019 elections then it's somewhat 10% believable.
Earlier ada hal approach was like first we will complete airframe then will shift to radar then to pod then to ram etc ..But when u will check now it's now distributed and several private public industries are collaborating and working together in each 8-10 main components that will be later directly fitted into aircraft...While the design is already completed by ADA and HAL ,and what's left for them is assembling the developed parts in amca-...So obviously the time span will be less and plus multiple sources will gain development chances and later they can stick to further evolving the technology irrespective of other simultaneously working groups on different techs..It's called a modular approach that for first time amce is following...
 

kunal1123

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Non stealth aircraft based on AMCA platform means a 4.5 gen twin engine fighter ?? If yes then this will complement rafale in IAF. And we may not need as many 200 foreign twin engine aircrafts if this gets realised.
it is not a new aircraft but AMCA with external weapon load configuration. and that will remain a 5th gen aircraft , news channel is creating a mess.
 

Superdefender

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Myth Buster: About MTOW of AMCA

The Empty weight of F-35A is 13,199 kg and its Maximum Takeoff Weight is 31,800 kg. So it can carry a total load (Internal+External) of 18,601 kg (MTOW-Empty Weight). But this figure differs if it is calculated another way. F-35A can carry 8,382 kg of internal fuel, 1,360 kg of internal weapons in its bays and 6,800 kg of external weapons or fuel drop tanks in its under-wing pylons. Hence, if we add these 3 figures, we will get a total carrying capacity of 16,542 kg. As you can see, there is a difference of 2,059 kg between 1st figure and 2nd figure. But let’s take it as 16,542 kg.

ADA has planned to set both internal weapons capacity and internal fuel capacity at 4 tons. We have to calculate its capacity of carrying external weapons or fuel drop tanks in its under-wing pylons. Let’s first take its MTOW to be 36,000 kg (As per Wikipedia). AMCA’s empty weight is 14,000 kg. So it can carry a total load of 22,000 kg (MTOW-Empty Weight). But I have taken the smaller figure of F-35A which is 2 tons less than 18,601 kg. So for fair comparison, let’s decrease its total load capacity (Internal+External) by 2 tons. Now it is 20,000 kg.

You can see if MTOW of AMCA is 36 tons, then it can take 3,458 kg more weight than F-35A (20,000-16,542). But here lies the doubt. As said before, AMCA can carry 4 tons of internal weapons and 4 tons of internal fuel. Taken this into account, its external under-wing capacity should be = 20,000-(4,000+4,000) = 12,000 kg, which is 5,200 kg more than F-35A’s 6,800 kg. It is definitely weird and physically/structurally impossible. If we take two medium 5th generation fighters of almost same empty weight, the external capacity can’t be differed by more than 5 tons. If engineers construct AMCA’s wings with some advanced & super strong CFC materials, still we will not get close to 12,000 kg.

Whereas, if we take MTOW of AMCA as 29,000 kg, then it can carry a total load (Internal+External) of 15,000 kg (MTOW-Empty Weight). Let’s make it 2 tons less which is 13 tons. Now its external capacity will be = 13,000-(4,000+4,000) = 5,000 kg. This figure is more acceptable than 12,000 kg for a medium stealth fighter. If we increase its MTOW to 31,000 kg, then 5,000 kg will be increased to 7,000 kg, which is more than that of F-35A. Therefore, Wikipedia should edit Max. takeoff weight section of AMCA and make it 31 tons for practically feasible.


||Thanks for reading and your patience||
 

tsunami

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Myth Buster: About MTOW of AMCA

ADA has planned to set both internal weapons capacity and internal fuel capacity at 4 tons. We have to calculate its capacity of carrying external weapons or fuel drop tanks in its under-wing pylons. Let’s first take its MTOW to be 36,000 kg (As per Wikipedia). AMCA’s empty weight is 14,000 kg. So it can carry a total load of 22,000 kg (MTOW-Empty Weight). But I have taken the smaller figure of F-35A which is 2 tons less than 18,601 kg. So for fair comparison, let’s decrease its total load capacity (Internal+External) by 2 tons. Now it is 20,000 kg.

You can see if MTOW of AMCA is 36 tons, then it can take 3,458 kg more weight than F-35A (20,000-16,542). But here lies the doubt. As said before, AMCA can carry 4 tons of internal weapons and 4 tons of internal fuel. Taken this into account, its external under-wing capacity should be = 20,000-(4,000+4,000) = 12,000 kg, which is 5,200 kg more than F-35A’s 6,800 kg. It is definitely weird and physically/structurally impossible. If we take two medium 5th generation fighters of almost same empty weight, the external capacity can’t be differed by more than 5 tons. If engineers construct AMCA’s wings with some advanced & super strong CFC materials, still we will not get close to 12,000 kg.

Whereas, if we take MTOW of AMCA as 29,000 kg, then it can carry a total load (Internal+External) of 15,000 kg (MTOW-Empty Weight). Let’s make it 2 tons less which is 13 tons. Now its external capacity will be = 13,000-(4,000+4,000) = 5,000 kg. This figure is more acceptable than 12,000 kg for a medium stealth fighter. If we increase its MTOW to 31,000 kg, then 5,000 kg will be increased to 7,000 kg, which is more than that of F-35A. Therefore, Wikipedia should edit Max. takeoff weight section of AMCA and make it 31 tons for practically feasible.


||Thanks for reading and your patience||
Internal fuel capacity 4000 KG is a very old figure and it has been discussed many times that ADA is saying that AMCA is planned to have 3000 KM range on Internal fuel. Even if that statment is not true then as you are saying 14000 KG empty weight that menas
14000 KG + 4000 KG + 500 KG aditional weight which means 18500 KG loaded weight .

4000*100/18500 = 21.6% internal fuel.

Now compare it with tejas 2450*100/9600 = 25.5% internal fuel

And you know IAF is totally not happy with range of tejas so tell me how IAF will be happy with AMCA with even lessar internal fuel??

Also from where you got this 14000 kg empty weight?

F-35 is fat fighter with less composite materials(Only 35% by weight) and created for Airforce Navy and Marines at the same time is only 13200 KG. With similer dimensions why do you think that sleek AMCA will be even more heavier??? Even J-31 with bigger design is just about 12000 kg empty weight.(Not 100% sure).

AMCA should not be more then 12000kg empty weight and minimum 5000kg internal fuel. With total 17500 Kg loaded weight AMCA will have 28.5% internal fuel which equal to EFT and much lesser than Rafale.

Now Internal weapon capacity 4000KG ???? Are you kidding me?

With the videos shown at Aero India this year it is quite clear that AMCA will have only one weapon bay with 4 hard points and no side weapon bay. It's internal weapon capacity will be equal to F-35 if not less. Or At max you can consider it as 1500kg. With External weapon capacity of 7-7.5 tons total weapon load of the fighter will be 8-9 tons.

And remember all these calculations by you me or wikipedia are useless until we can see a Prototype flying.
 

Indx TechStyle

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IDN TAKE: The Immense Potential of The AMCA Program

"Our requirement is for a next generation fighter aircraft which will be required in early 2030 which should have all required capabilities in the terms of agility, maneuverability, load carrying capacity, low radar cross section (low observation features) and super cruise." this was stated by Dr. VK Saraswat, then Director General of DRDO.
The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which has been working on the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program, although still at its early design and development phase, holds immense potential to replace a wide range of IAF aircraft which bringing quantum changes to fielded capability as the aircraft will be generation ahead of what the IAF currently fields, or is considering.
The indigenous Light Combat Aircraft TEJAS, which the ADA has been developing over the last 2 decades, has created an aeronautics ecosystem for the AMCA program and once followed through would result in a shift from short-term tactical thinking to a more long-term strategic view, keeping pace with technological developments and meeting future threats.
As a follow on to the TEJAS fighter, the AMCA program was identified to be in the 2-ton class, with support given by the Joint Review Committee of the IAF and Indian Navy on 16 July 2010.
Development of the aircraft has been divided into four phases or approaches:
  • Design Approach - designing and other activities
  • Test Approach - project definition, wind tunnel testing and modelling
  • Technology Development Approach - engineering technology manufacturing development (ETMD) and prototype development
  • Manufacturing and Support Approach - development during manufacturing and upgrades druing the project lifetime.
Considering the other twin-engine fifth generation fighter project with Russia called the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), defense minister Parrikar has cautiously stated that 'aspects of production and technology transfer are being looked into." before singing up for further development and eventual production of the type.
Admin - IDN
 

Filtercoffee

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IDN TAKE: The Immense Potential of The AMCA Program


Development of the aircraft has been divided into four phases or approaches:
  • Design Approach - designing and other activities
  • Test Approach - project definition, wind tunnel testing and modelling
  • Technology Development Approach - engineering technology manufacturing development (ETMD) and prototype development
  • Manufacturing and Support Approach - development during manufacturing and upgrades druing the project lifetime.

Admin - IDN
I am going to ignore this dream state thought; thank god for a timeline.
 

deepak ghanvatkar

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if you read http://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_t...ca-is-set-to-fly-on-russian-technology_705808

you will start wondering how russians have become so liberal? At RD-33 engine the alloy was imported from Russia for maintaining the money wise Russian content...

http://idrw.org/russian-uec-offers-to-co-develop-engine-for-indias-indigenous-amca-combat-aircraft/
if such stories are planted they may just be to stop Indians from acquiring technology instead keep Indians busy at negotiating table.

Imagine when was T-50 negotiated and what is the outcome after so many years...hence its safe to assume that these news are just to keep Indians away from technology....
 

tejas warrior

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India’s AMCA Fighter To Enter Preliminary Design
Feb 27, 2017Bradley Perrett and Jay Menon


  • Preliminary design of India’s proposed Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) will begin in March, with a target of flying the aircraft in 2024 and making it ready for service as early as 2030. As the defense ministry’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) awaits approval for full-scale development, an upgraded version of the General Electric F414 powerplant has become the likely choice for the twin-engine indigenous fighter. “We have completed the configurations and the ...

  • http://aviationweek.com/combat-aircraft/india-s-amca-fighter-enter-preliminary-design
 

kunal1123

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India’s AMCA Fighter To Enter Preliminary Design
Feb 27, 2017Bradley Perrett and Jay Menon


  • Preliminary design of India’s proposed Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) will begin in March, with a target of flying the aircraft in 2024 and making it ready for service as early as 2030. As the defense ministry’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) awaits approval for full-scale development, an upgraded version of the General Electric F414 powerplant has become the likely choice for the twin-engine indigenous fighter. “We have completed the configurations and the ...

  • http://aviationweek.com/combat-aircraft/india-s-amca-fighter-enter-preliminary-design
misguided new's as any one who track AMCA know that preliminary design is already completed, they are now in detail/ETMD phase and waiting for govt. Approval/Funding to start. for TD.that will take 2-2.5- year to completed.
 
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Screen Shot 2017-04-09 at 6.45.34 PM.png

PSQR Finalization:
ADA received Draft Preliminary Services Qualitative Requirements (PSQRs) for AMCA in September 2014 from Air HQ for study and feedback. Appreciation of requirements document was forwarded to Air HQ for finalizing PSQRs. Reviews have been held by VCAS, DCAS and ACAS (Plans). AMCA latest Configuration and development approach are accepted by IAF. First two/three prototypes will fly with proven 90kN class engine and 110 kN class engine will be installed in a phased manner from 4 prototype onwards. PSQR is being amended by IAF towards finalization.
 

lcafanboy

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I have just heard from one insider that there could be 2 AMCA in making AMCA 1 the above one with EJ 230 engines with western avionics and AMCA 2 which is Russian design based on flanker and Pak-fa with Russian S117 engines and Russian design & Avionics which would be significantly smaller than PAK-FA. This has been offered by Russians as a Quid Pro Quo for buying Su Pak-Fa and govt has accepted it.

Can someone confirm this? Don't take this as fake as this insider is very close to govt.

@roma @ersakthivel @Kshatriya87 @Mikesingh @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Indx TechStyle
 

A chauhan

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I have just heard from one insider that there could be 2 AMCA in making AMCA 1 the above one with EJ 230 engines with western avionics and AMCA 2 which is Russian design based on flanker and Pak-fa with Russian S117 engines and Russian design & Avionics which would be significantly smaller than PAK-FA. This has been offered by Russians as a Quid Pro Quo for buying Su Pak-Fa and govt has accepted it.

Can someone confirm this? Don't take this as fake as this insider is very close to govt.

@roma @ersakthivel @Kshatriya87 @Mikesingh @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Indx TechStyle
Don't know if it is true but we should rather stick with our own AMCA !
 

Chinmoy

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I have just heard from one insider that there could be 2 AMCA in making AMCA 1 the above one with EJ 230 engines with western avionics and AMCA 2 which is Russian design based on flanker and Pak-fa with Russian S117 engines and Russian design & Avionics which would be significantly smaller than PAK-FA. This has been offered by Russians as a Quid Pro Quo for buying Su Pak-Fa and govt has accepted it.

Can someone confirm this? Don't take this as fake as this insider is very close to govt.

@roma @ersakthivel @Kshatriya87 @Mikesingh @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Indx TechStyle
If something like this is really in making, then its the best thing on offer I'd say. It would not only fast track the project, but would help us to integrate avionics from best of both the world. For India I'd definitely think it to be a good move. It is a step which is same as that of US has taken for almost all of their arms design. We should select the best among both as the base model for AMCA.
 

Indx TechStyle

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I have just heard from one insider that there could be 2 AMCA in making AMCA 1 the above one with EJ 230 engines with western avionics and AMCA 2 which is Russian design based on flanker and Pak-fa with Russian S117 engines and Russian design & Avionics which would be significantly smaller than PAK-FA. This has been offered by Russians as a Quid Pro Quo for buying Su Pak-Fa and govt has accepted it.

Can someone confirm this? Don't take this as fake as this insider is very close to govt.

@roma @ersakthivel @Kshatriya87 @Mikesingh @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Indx TechStyle
3 years back I heard that consideration was on, on a third stealth fighter besides AMCA and FGFA. As FGFA is going in limbo, it may be for a heavy class air superiority aircraft? AMCA is an MRCA.
 

kunal1123

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I have just heard from one insider that there could be 2 AMCA in making AMCA 1 the above one with EJ 230 engines with western avionics and AMCA 2 which is Russian design based on flanker and Pak-fa with Russian S117 engines and Russian design & Avionics which would be significantly smaller than PAK-FA. This has been offered by Russians as a Quid Pro Quo for buying Su Pak-Fa and govt has accepted it.

Can someone confirm this? Don't take this as fake as this insider is very close to govt.

@roma @ersakthivel @Kshatriya87 @Mikesingh @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Indx TechStyle
well have no idea for 2 AMCA PROGRAM AND IMHO I DON'T THINK THAT IS GOOD IDEA
REASON
1. HAVING TWO DIFFERENT DEGIN IN SAME WEIGHT CLASS CATEGORY ONE IS OUR AND OTHER IS RUSSIAN MEAN WE ARE CREATION COMPETITION FOR YOUR OWN PRODUCT.
2. IF U HAVE PAK-FA WITH RUSSIAN AVIONIC THEN THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE GOING MEDIUM CLASS WHEN U HAVE YOUR OWN
3. FUNDING TWO PRODUCT IN SAME CATEGORY IS NOT BEST USE FOR INDIAN MONEY AND RESOURCES (COMPARE TO ECONOMY SIZE)
4. S177 ENGINE IS SAME SIZE AS NEW ITEM 30 ENGINE (AND NEARLY 35 IN LONG AND 7 IN WIDE COMPARE TO EJ230 ) WHY CREATE TWO DIFFERENT CLASS PLANE WITH SAME SIZE ENGINE
4 WHEN WE HAVE YOUR OWN AND IF WE ARE TAKING OTHER PLANE FOR SAME ROLE WILL AUTOMATICALLY PUT OUR OWN CREDIBILITY IN QUESTION MARK.
5. IF WE ARE BUY PAK-FA AS SAME IT IS WHAT IS THE USE OF SPENDING MORE MONEY IN GETTING ANOTHER PLANE BETTER SPLIT IN TWO AND USE IN BOTH(HIGH NUMBER OF PAK-FA AND MORE FUND FOR AMCA 1
 

Indx TechStyle

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HAVING TWO DIFFERENT DEGIN IN SAME WEIGHT CLASS CATEGORY ONE IS OUR AND OTHER IS RUSSIAN MEAN WE ARE CREATION COMPETITION FOR YOUR OWN PRODUCT.
Incorrect,
F-22, J-20, T-50 and PAK FA etc. are heavier crafts for air superiority roles while F-35, J-31, LMFS, AMCA, Shinshin, KFX & TFX etc. are for medium roles.
2. IF U HAVE PAK-FA WITH RUSSIAN AVIONIC THEN THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE GOING MEDIUM CLASS WHEN U HAVE YOUR OWN
PAK FA is going in limbo, that's why there was a third stealth fighter.
But trust me, it won't be medium.
 

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