AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Indx TechStyle]

When shall it fly? When shall we have 500 of these? Will AMCA have the capacity to carry nuclear weapons?

At least not before Tejas gets fully operational in 2017-18.
This project was put on hold earlier in 2014 - 15 (correct me if I'm wrong) to get LCA operational and then, work was started again at a slow pace.
Speed in development will be there after budget release. So, let Tejas get completed. Then, consider at least 4-5 years after that.
Good News is that Tejas is processing well and a new SP3 improved version is ready to fly.

 

[Superdefender]

At least not before Tejas gets fully operational in 2017-18.
This project was put on hold earlier in 2014 - 15 (correct me if I'm wrong) to get LCA operational and then, work was started again at a slow pace.
Speed in development will be there after budget release. So, let Tejas get completed. Then, consider at least 4-5 years after that.
Good News is that Tejas is processing well and a new SP3 improved version is ready to fly.

Then SP3 will get Rafale coating. AMCA coating?? Can it carry nukes or not??

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Then SP3 will get Rafale coating. AMCA coating?? Can it carry nukes or not??

Depends man, except few specifications (though are enough for carrying nukes), nothing is finalized and even won't be till a prototype is rolled out which in turn won't happen before any budget is released.
Depending on requirements and roles, we could be seeing different versions of AMCA.
And at first place, AMCA sounds more to be a program rather than being name of a fighter plane.
So, it's possible if a number of planes are developed under the program.
Screenshot from a document from Observers Research Foundation.

 

[Superdefender]

Something inside me tells me that AMCA would be more advanced than F-35, J-31. It should be medium multirole fighter, the future variant of Rafale. I think Govt. should not wait for Tejas. 36 Rafales are enough. 37th should be a 5th gen AMCA.

 

[Chinmoy]

I would not be surprised, if AMCA turns out to be twin engined version of existing Tejas with much better avionics angled surface and lower RCS. Infact it would be something I would dream about and would like to see happen.

 

[scatterStorm]

Something inside me tells me that AMCA would be more advanced than F-35, J-31. It should be medium multirole fighter, the future variant of Rafale. I think Govt. should not wait for Tejas. 36 Rafales are enough. 37th should be a 5th gen AMCA.

I think we should not jump to conclusions, there are many variables related to understanding of what completely a true 5th gen fighter jet is, even though our amca airframe design is VLO and would evolve with prototype to prototype, a true 5th gen fighter jet is a combination of highly advanced avionics and sensors fused completely to work in harmony, to paint a big picture of the air theater. Here are some key issues we might need to address before moving further with the development:

1. What engines are we installing in?
   
2. What radar we might go with?
3. What sensors we will fuse withing the design?
   
4. What armaments we are choosing?
5. Will it be able to switch roles?
6. What time frame we could accomplish this?

Some questions can be addressed, the following way:

1. Engines are critical element of a jet, and we aren't close enough yet to go with what engines for the desired T/W ratios, further engines affect air-frame designs, so I am assuming our amca jet air-frame will go a major overhaul and will be a completely different jet with only LO characteristics. I am assuming we might buy it from a foreign manufacturer like GE.
2. AESA radar is chosen for the amca, but no indications of what would be it, a desi version, foreign collab or foreign purchase. I am assuming we would collab with either Israel or purchase it from NIIP itself as they are going for production in 2018 for T50s.
   
3. This lot is the biggest problem our amca would goose chase and will affect the overall objective of achieving stealth. We would need a big list of sensors fused in together to work autonomously with each other and provide data-link to all other defense assets and that too smoothly!
4. Our amca armaments would all depend on point 1. Internal weapon bay doors dimension all depend on the engine dimensions, thus our homegrown Astra BVR AAM would need a major overhaul in dimensions, that goes the same to Sudarshan LGBs.
5. Again point 1.
   
6. In worst case scenario let's just say 2030!

But than again these are just some cold speculations.

 

[Superdefender]

I am confident that AMCA will get IOC before 2025.

 

[scatterStorm]

I am confident that AMCA will get IOC before 2025.

More like prototype by 2020 for being a true 5th gen, then again 5 years of re-iteration to what could be improved than full scale production in 2025 or after( that's in worst case scenario ). If HAL could achieve that early on than who knows by 2025 we would have an amca in serial production.

 

[Akask kumar]

View attachment 10503 When shall it fly? When shall we have 500 of these? Will AMCA have the capacity to carry nuclear weapons?

can u give me the link fo rthis photograph.. this is going to be my wallpaper... sorry got it..

AMAZiING pIC!!!

 

[Indx TechStyle]

can u give me the link fo rthis photograph.. this is going to be my wallpaper... sorry got it..

AMAZiING pIC!!!

Mere a 3D Model of Actual Design
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...m-combat-aircraft-hal.36/page-98#post-1192854
The Aircraft seems to be heavily drawn from Tejas.

Fuselage of Tejas seems to be enlarged (obvious for a medium combat aircraft) and modified for facilitating twin engines.
Extra fins for aerodynamic designs, which is common in F-35, J-20 and J-31.
Still design can be modified a little to be identical to the F-22.

I conclude, a nice design to absorb or reflect RADAR waves here and there, though not as stealthy as F-35.
What do you say @ersakthivel?

 

[Superdefender]

More like prototype by 2020 for being a true 5th gen, then again 5 years of re-iteration to what could be improved than full scale production in 2025 or after( that's in worst case scenario ). If HAL could achieve that early on than who knows by 2025 we would have an amca in serial production.

More like prototype by 2020 for being a true 5th gen, then again 5 years of re-iteration to what could be improved than full scale production in 2025 or after( that's in worst case scenario ). If HAL could achieve that early on than who knows by 2025 we would have an amca in serial production.

Yes, 2025 is the worst case. Lets go by it. At that time INS Vishal'll be closed to induction too. I don't want Rafale-M. 90% works of N-AMCA would have finished by then & it should support EMALS. IAF & IN'll get a high level of stealth aircraft if current vlo design translates to production version accurately.

 

[Anikastha]

View attachment 10503 When shall it fly? When shall we have 500 of these? Will AMCA have the capacity to carry nuclear weapons?

First flight not before 2025...and it will face same situation LCA had....delayed

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Our amca armaments would all depend on point 1. Internal weapon bay doors dimension all depend on the engine dimensions, thus our homegrown Astra BVR AAM would need a major overhaul in dimensions, that goes the same to Sudarshan LGBs.

Potentially, AMCA can be used for BrahMos-A and Nirbhay ALCM.
Thing about which I'm more concerned about the inconsistency in internal weapon bay design.
Just look at the picture.

It's good for carrying AIM or Vympel etc. American and Russian Missiles but not enough deep to carry our bulky weapons like Sudarshan LGB.
Either sacrifice stealth or make the weapons more advanced and smaller or let entire ego of indigenous 5G plane shatter by using foreign armament because your country can't make weapons for a 5G fighter which could make it end up like LCA.

We need to further work hard for improving indigenous armaments like AAMs, ALCMs and LGBs etc.. Redesigning the plane will push it's development 4-5 years behind the schedule
Plus I'm eagerly waiting for Uttam AESA RADAR as I can't tolerate a foreign AESA on indigenous plane.

Though, if we could take some techs from Rafael to modify, will be very good.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

First flight not before 2025...and it will face same situation LCA had....delayed

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

Depends over release of budget. Modular approach has made the program speed up.
This is just left to decide the engine and then, the release of annual budget.

Though it was expected to get released last year after freezing the design, but engine was not decided. Hope they take a final call on engine at least this year. So, that we can see a prototype in 2020.

 

[tharun]

AMCA isn't that easy project...you need airframe that can take any pressure at high G's..
Engines..capable of supercruise wothout afterburners..
stealth
internal weapon bay
missiles shape should be changed for internal bay requirements
Sensor Fusion like missile warning system,IRST,AESA radar,Optronics pod..etc
Data Fusion from different platforms like GPS/IRNSS ground link,data link b/w planes etc...
Code for every thing..estimated would be 6-8 million line(f-22 & f-35 has more than 8 million lines of code)
And lot more...

 

[Superdefender]

AMCA will have IRST (according to ADA), but can it have conformal IRST like Raptor? And what about EOTS for ground striking?

 

[Filtercoffee]

The canopy view should be enhanced since it's also a dog fighter, I am also guessing thrust vectoring for the engines so it helps to have a 360 clear view even if the seat blocks the rear. Its a psychological boost. Even the arc of the canopy is going back to the legacy fighter trend. I hope they do it for the LCA as well.

 

[Superdefender]

@scatterStorm & @Indx TechStyle, do not underestimate ADA. After releasing the inconsistent weapon bays pics, they would have taken into account the expert's reactions. Wait and see the result. Astra-2 will have small diameter and folded fins. They will make the depth somehow right to accomodate 2 Sudarshan LGBs without compromising stealth.

 

[tharun]

Data fusion examples....

 

[AbhinavTheBrahmin]

I Say we should by rafale F 35 and Su 35 And Reverse engineer them and should incorporate their best features in amca as india did it with russias sam 2 and now india is very good in missile technology and india has cheap labour as well this should decrease the cost