Alternatives to the Indian program MMRCA

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by SpArK, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Alternatives to the Indian program MMRCA


    NoTe: Possible bad grammar due to Translation.

    Airpower examines some of the alternatives that the IAF could adopt towards an eventual cancellation of the MMRCA

    [​IMG]

    There are great expectations around the world about the likely announcement of the winner of the contest for MMRCA (combat aircraft multitasking medium size), the Indian program that seeks a new fighter to the IAF (India Air Force). The competition, which initially had six aircraft currently is confined to two fighters (Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale).

    It was long and tortuous the path of the program MMRCA here. And much of this is due to the complicated process of choosing the IAF, seeking the best alternative considering three basic points unconnected: the performance of aircraft and its technical characteristics, costs of acquisition and life cycle and technological and industrial offsets (offsets).

    Unfortunately, given the way the program was structured, we could not get the best of the three points mentioned above collected a single proposal. One of the basic points of the program was the total separation of the technical criteria of economic, with the latter were evaluated after the definition of the performances of the fighters.

    Both the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Dassault Rafale may have detached from the technical point of view (considering the criteria adopted by the IAF), but are far from the aircraft with operating cycles and lower acquisition costs. With the formation of a "shortlist" composed of the two most expensive aircraft of all competition, one of the main criteria of the process (the offer with the lowest price) just lost all his strength in this final.

    It is likely that even close to a decision, many authorities in India are questioning the selection process. Especially in a time where the program cost increases experienced in the face of falling rupeeagainst other currencies international . According to recent analysis, the value of the program can reach the figure of U.S. $ 20 billion.

    Faced with this situation, there are currents within and outside India who advocate the cancellation of the program. Some reviews claim that the IAF will spend lots of money in an aircraft that is not exactly the latest technology and performance in ten years. But if the program was canceled MMRCA, what are the options in India?

    The central issue is that the program can not simply be canceled. India needs to replace its older fighters and strengthen its air power. In both situations there is some urgency. Therefore, the possible cancellation of MMRCA should be followed by an action in the short or medium term.

    Considering the hypothesis of the cancellation of MMRCA and urgent needs of the IAF, some options have been raised. They are listed below.

    Acquisition of Su-30 MKI fighter "Sukhoi Super" - the Sukhoi Su-30MKI is by far the biggest game of the IAF, with a modern aircraft and new construction. In addition, the IAF recently announced that it intends to buy more of these fighters but in a more modern version . The cancellation of MMRCA could be offset by buying more "Sukhoi Super" which, roughly speaking, is an aircraft of the same generation of the two fighters competing for MMRCA. The acquisition of Su-30 MKI would have a much lower cost, as well as a time to get in greatly reduced activity. However, the IAF would focus much of their forces on a single model of hunting.

    Acquisition of Mirage 2000-9 fighters - is well known that the United Arab Emirates (UAE) seeking to purchase a new game, provided they find buyers for their existing Mirage 2000-9. These aircraft are without a doubt, the most advanced fighter Mirage 2000 family, incorporating technologies and solutions used in the Rafale. It should be noted that many of the solutions adopted in the "-9" should also be employed in the modernization of IAF Mirage 2000H, whose contract was recently signed with Dassault. Therefore, the purchase of Mirage 2000-9 UAE by India would a strengthening of the IAF in the short term and introduce an aircraft that, technically, is very close to the modernized Mirage 2000H. In this solution, the IAF would incorporate a number of relatively modern fighters, in a very short time and at a price much lower when compared with the acquisition of new fighters. But the downside is the amount this option. The total number of units (over 60) would be almost half of the proposed MMRCA (126).

    Employment resources for local projects - the volume of resources for the program MMRCA is substantial (estimated at $ 20bilhões) and the expenditure of resources designed fighters outside India may be questioned by parliament of that country. These resources could be used in local projects as the development of LCA Tejas stealth fighter and the future of India and Russia (FGFA - Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft). Such measures would have strong popular appeal, but are solutions for the medium / long term since both are in the development stage. This decision would make more sense if it were linked to the introduction of a "hunting-cap," which could quickly become active and the amount required by the IAF.

    Complementation of the allocation of MiG-29 - The IAF has in its inventory less than 70 MiG-29 that at the time, are suffering a great process of revitalization and upgrading of their systems. Both the number of copies as the update in progress, these aircraft will have a significant power in the IAF next year, behind only the Su-30 MKI. It should be noted that the resources announced for this "up-grade" are quite low, making the cost-benefit extremely attractive. The purchase of more cells used / stored MiG-29 and possible modernization of the same would increase the combat power of the IAF and provide an interim solution ("hunting-cap") with an acceptable cost to the introduction of new fighters as FGFA or Tejas.



    Leia mais (Read More): As alternativas ao programa indiano MMRCA | Poder Aéreo - Informação e Discussão sobre Aviação Militar e Civil
     
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  3. Koovie

    Koovie Regular Member

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    Sorry, but I stopped reading this article after MMRCA=combat aircraft multitasking medium size and IAF= India Air Force. Now find the mistakes.......
     
  4. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    You should have first read the line possible grammar mistake due to translation at the start of the article.


    Now you may continue reading it or restart it ..
     
  5. warriorextreme

    warriorextreme Senior Member Senior Member

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    UAE wants to sell mirage 2000-9 ??
    have we compared price of our mirage upgrades and price of these second hand mirage 2000-9 ??
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  6. Koovie

    Koovie Regular Member

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    ok sorry my bad :)
     
  7. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    The UAE report is old news, but do not know why we did not show any interest in this, considering M 2000 was the initial choice of IAF and the closure of the production line prompted them to go in for MMRCA tender.

    Maybe the UAE asking price is very high, but we need to know whther GOI made any serious attempt to have a commercial discussion on this.
     
  8. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    dont know how much the cancelation of MMRCA will benefit India cost wise but it will surely put dent in the Indian credibility on defence procurment , after MRTA tanker fissco in 2010.
     
  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    If the MRCA is canceled, the only other option is the F-35. But the time frame is not good enough. The other MRCA candidates except for Gripen are old.

    According to Airpower's own studies, the SH is not an even match for an upgraded flanker like the BM, so you can say the other MRCA candidates which weren't shortlisted aren't good enough either.

    The MRCA deal first picked the best fighters out of the six and then the cheapest is to be decided, which is unlike the Swiss program where they chose the most technically inferior aircraft available simply because it costs less.

    Super Flankers, we have plenty and will be manufacturing them until PAKFA starts production anyway. So, why would we want more?

    Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 are no longer an "advanced" option. We may as well go for the Mig-35. IAF wants the aircraft to last 40 years, not 20.

    Homegrown programs are going to be funded anyway. It's not like the money used in MRCA can be redirected into AMCA when the Govt and IAF think both can be funded at the same time along with PAKFA. A stealth LCA would not be an equivalent platform, but I guess the author is technically talking about the AMCA here.
     
  10. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    But hypothetically speaking if India does go in for the M2000-9 from UAE would it not immediately arrest the rapidly declining numbers in the IAF. We already have the infrastructure to maintain this aircraft, we have the pilots trained on M 2000, this would be like a booster shot and should stiffen our defenses say for the next 7-8 years by the time the first of the MRCA crafts will begin to appear on our skies.
     
  11. Killswitch

    Killswitch Regular Member

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    I got an idea!

    No MMRCA = PAF and PLAAF patrolling Indian skies for free!

    Really though, the MMRCA has taken the time and effort of some of the most important aircraft manufacturers out there. If cancelled dont expect anyone to show up for any future tenders for just about any type of defense platform.
     
  12. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    We aren't PAF. We don't need second hand aircraft.
     
  13. plugwater

    plugwater Elite Member Elite Member

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    Luckily no one has said LCA will save the day for us so far :lol:
     
  14. tiranga

    tiranga Tihar Jail Banned

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    Mmrca isn't cancelled yet? Right? Well we have lca for us, although by the time it gets inducted, the world would be flying 7th gen. Fighters
     
  15. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    How about flying kites loaded with fireworks? Will that replace MMRCA deal?
     
  16. tiranga

    tiranga Tihar Jail Banned

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    Paper planes are more economically wise by the way...
     
  17. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    But what is the alternate. MMCRA is an ongoing saga, even if decided now it will take 3-4 years for the first aircraft to arrive, and at the same time there is a pressure to retire more and more of the obsolete MIGs.
     
  18. Payeng

    Payeng Daku Mongol Singh

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    The Brazilian author have lesser the knowledge about MMRCA deal, he missed one important point, that is 50% offset clause, some thing that cause the delay of the process, more then anything MMRCA deal for India is more then just a capable aircraft brought or a value for money aircraft. It is aimed to build a robust industrial base to boost the infra-structure capabilities for indigenous production, otherwise it could have ended up on the cheap teen series or even the F-35.
     
  19. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    If scraped, Buy number of Aircraft from both parties..

    Or

    Push for LCA2 & AMCA

    Or

    Buy more MIG-29Updated Or Gripen with Different Radar..
     
  20. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    We are buying MMRCA for facing PLAAF in 2020

    China is expanding its MODERN fleet rapidly

    The PLAAF will have J 10 J 11 Su 27 and Su 30 in LARGE numbers by 2020

    And if we dont buy MMRCA our best plane will be Su 30 mki and Super Su 30 mki

    But Super Su 30 mki is still NOT READY

    And even the UPGRADED and latest versions of Mirage 2000 and Mig 29
    ARE NOT equal to Rafale or Eurofighter
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
  21. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    And let us not forget that in case of a two front war we will face BOTH PAF and PLAAF simultaneously

    The ONLY way to dissuade China is to have such strong forces that can impose a very heavy damage

    The chinese only want CHEAP victories

    When they realist that IA and IAF will whip their A $$ they will talk of peace and friendship
    and might even dump pakistan
     

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